2007 4runner Atrac VS 2010 Land Rover Terrain Response test and quick comparo video

[fromLRtoT4R]

Some time ago I started a new thread seeking advise about the different choices of differential upgrades for the 4th gen 4Runner.
Here is the thread
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/213775-atrac-aint-up-task-locker-choices.html
The reason for this was because I was very disappointed in the abilities of Atrac. Coming from a Land Rover, I was very spoiled by the Terrain Response system and how well it worked. I owned an LR3 and currently own an LR4 and never felt like I couldn't do something with either of those vehicles due to the lack of a locking rear differential.
I have made the switch from the LR3 to the 4Runner for rough trail duties because of reliability and resale value, and found that Atrac could not do what I needed it to do without some kind of a serious differential upgrade. After a lot of great help from the T4R community, I decided to go with the ARB Air Locker and clearly made the right choice.. It completely transforms the ability of the 4Runner. I was asked for some pictures or video to back up some of my claims and finally had some time to quickly put something together.. Hope this helps some of you with your builds..
Here you go

 

[USMCEngineer]

Video

Interesting Video, you simultaneously made me jealous and convinced me to buy a rear locker.

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

Interesting Video, you simultaneously made me jealous and convinced me to buy a rear locker.

lockers are the best. ive been spoiled by my e-locker retrofit.

 

[Gatafly]

Just asking because my knowledge is limited in this, but in the video you said you were in 4 Hi all systems engaged and Atrac was easily defeated? Just wondering if I missed something as it is my understanding that Atrac only engages in 4 Lo differential locked so it would never have been engaged. I could be wrong and none the less rear lockers are awesome.

 

[AKmoney]

Just asking because my knowledge is limited in this, but in the video you said you were in 4 Hi all systems engaged and Atrac was easily defeated? Just wondering if I missed something as it is my understanding that Atrac only engages in 4 Lo differential locked so it would never have been engaged. I could be wrong and none the less rear lockers are awesome.

I think it depends on the year. In my 2004 there's no way to turn ATRAC off. The only option is VSC OFF, and that only happens when you lock the center diff.

The Land Rover traction control is pretty awesome. You can tell from your video how little articulation the stock suspension has and yet the Terrain Response figures out how to get the truck up the hill with ease.

I'm actually curious - with all your offroading adventures in LRs have you had any field break-downs or did you jump to Toyota out of an underlying fear that sooner or later, British reliability would catch up to you?

 

[AKmoney]

BTW, to the OP:

When you put your LR4 in gear you can hear a servo motor of some kind whir up for a second from underneath the truck. Is that one of the British gizmos you anticipate will fail at the worst possible time?

 

[Gatafly]

I think it depends on the year. In my 2004 there's no way to turn ATRAC off. The only option is VSC OFF, and that only happens when you lock the center diff.

The Land Rover traction control is pretty awesome. You can tell from your video how little articulation the stock suspension has and yet the Terrain Response figures out how to get the truck up the hill with ease.

I'm actually curious - with all your offroading adventures in LRs have you had any field break-downs or did you jump to Toyota out of an underlying fear that sooner or later, British reliability would catch up to you?

I didn't know you could turn Atrac on/off. I thought it was all automatic where it only was active in 4 Lo then inactive in 4 Hi or 2wd. Then again I have an '04 also so the newer models could have a switch. Reason I threw it out there with a "?" as I was uncertain.

 

[mizak82]

how would 4lo do on that hill?

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

Just asking because my knowledge is limited in this, but in the video you said you were in 4 Hi all systems engaged and Atrac was easily defeated? Just wondering if I missed something as it is my understanding that Atrac only engages in 4 Lo differential locked so it would never have been engaged. I could be wrong and none the less rear lockers are awesome.

atrac is activated once you lock the center diff. doesnt matter if its in 4hi or lo just as long as the diff is locked. rule of thumb is if the vsc off light is on then atrac is on

 

[AKmoney]

atrac is activated once you lock the center diff. doesnt matter if its in 4hi or lo just as long as the diff is locked. rule of thumb is if the vsc off light is on then atrac is on

You don't have to have the center diff locked for ATRAC to work. I've seen the ATRAC system in my truck turn on and do its thing (blinky yellow traction light and characteristic system clunking/buzzing) without the center diff lock activated.

Just to be perfectly clear, here's the straight scoop from the 2004 owner's manual on ATRAC in 4WD models - hopefully I'm not breaking any laws by posting this. Link included for completeness. There's no verbiage in there anywhere I can find that links ATRAC to 4LO or Diff Lock. It's always on. I do think it's funny how the manual says "Leave the system on during ordinary driving..." when there's no real way to turn it off

http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om/OM35811U/pdf/01omsour/2004/044runne/17.pdf

 

[AKmoney]

Ahh wait, I get to correct myself now.

Apparently in 2004, it wasn't called ATRAC. It was just called "TRAC"!

Based on my scanning of all the various 4th gen product brochures, ATRAC wasn't available until 2009 and only then on the Trail Edition models, which also came with a factory rear e-locker. Other 2009 4Runners (SR5, Sport, Limited) came with plain old TRAC and not A-TRAC.

What's the difference between TRAC and A-TRAC? Beats me.

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

Just asking because my knowledge is limited in this, but in the video you said you were in 4 Hi all systems engaged and Atrac was easily defeated? Just wondering if I missed something as it is my understanding that Atrac only engages in 4 Lo differential locked so it would never have been engaged. I could be wrong and none the less rear lockers are awesome.

I believe this was answered but to reiterate, Atrac is always there.. When you are in 4wd and the center locker is engaged (regardless of 4hi or 4low), Traction Control turns off and Atrac remains on.. always.. when I said "defeated" I meant that it just gave up.. It would give up in two ways, by either cutting the power so much that there is nothing left in the throttle or one (or two) of the wheels just go spinning out of control and Atrac can't catch them.. Land Rovers don't do that...

BTW, to the OP:

When you put your LR4 in gear you can hear a servo motor of some kind whir up for a second from underneath the truck. Is that one of the British gizmos you anticipate will fail at the worst possible time?

That servo you heard was the parking brake disengaging. Its activated with a button.. And yes, that system in my LR3 was starting to fail.. to the vehicles credit it, it had 140k miles on it..

You can tell from your video how little articulation the stock suspension has and yet the Terrain Response figures out how to get the truck up the hill with ease.

I'm actually curious - with all your offroading adventures in LRs have you had any field break-downs or did you jump to Toyota out of an underlying fear that sooner or later, British reliability would catch up to you?

actually the articulation is really very good for a stock vehicle.. the video doesn't do it justice.. there isnt much you can do to make it better either, but it is pretty good, considering its a fully independent suspension. In fact, I don't know of a single other SUV with independent suspension that can flex like that.. not even close.. not even remotely close.. even as the wheels extend all the way, they stay nice and straight.. the suspension in these things is brilliant..


yes I did have somewhat of a serious failure on a trail... my LR3 (once again with 140k miles) blew an O ring on top of one of the air springs.. I though it was a snake near the car at first, but no, it was air escaping.. The compressor was able to keep it inflated, so got very lucky! otherwise I would have to leave the car there and repair it on the spot later..

how would 4lo do on that hill?

not much better.. that hill wasn't steep enough to need 4low so for this video I didn't. I didn't want to give either one of the cars any advantages they didn't absolutely need so we can see the systems working harder



so in case anyone is wondering why the switch.. well, its not really the suspension that scares me in a Land Rover.. you can actually just convert to a coil spring pretty easily... its actually the brilliant Terrain Response that scares me more than anything.. why? because if you loose as much as one speed sensor, the whole system goes out the window! if your air suspension compressor overheats or stops working, the system shuts off.. if your traction control module gets wet, it shuts off.. there are too many ways that system can fail, and it usually doesn't (3rd gen or newer) but if it does, you may as well be driving a Honda Accord on that trail.. then your hiking back.. even the center locker can only be activated by the system when it wants to.. if there was a manual way to engage the center locker (or rear locker in the HD models) I would consider keeping the LR3 and the LR4 is just too nice and kind of expensive to beat around like that..

they do have problems off course but they are not as bad as some people think.. I'm in the auto business so small issues don't scare me, and all you have to do is just buy used parts, and your good.. and as long as you DO NOT follow Land Rovers maintenance schedule and do everything early or divide the recommended fluid change mileages in half, these things will keep going.. with that being said, its no Toyota. I would feel a lot safer taking the 4Runner off the grid than either of the Land Rovers..

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

Ahh wait, I get to correct myself now.

Apparently in 2004, it wasn't called ATRAC. It was just called "TRAC"!

Based on my scanning of all the various 4th gen product brochures, ATRAC wasn't available until 2009 and only then on the Trail Edition models, which also came with a factory rear e-locker. Other 2009 4Runners (SR5, Sport, Limited) came with plain old TRAC and not A-TRAC.

What's the difference between TRAC and A-TRAC? Beats me.

ok so youre still a little off. TRAC is the normal street driving traction control. it makes the same sounds as ATRAC its just not as aggressive with its application of the brakes. ATRAC is the more aggressive version of TRAC. all 4runners with 4x4 from 03-current have ATRAC. unless you see VSC off on the dash ATRAC is not active since the two would pretty much end up countering each other on a lot of cases since ATRAC is so aggressive with the control of the brakes and its stopping and releasing wheels so quickly VSC would just cut power to the wheels. In 2009 the button was added to manually activate and deactivate the ATRAC in the TRAIL edition just like how it is in the TRD offroad tacoma and trailteams FJ.

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

Ahh wait, I get to correct myself now.

Apparently in 2004, it wasn't called ATRAC. It was just called "TRAC"!

Based on my scanning of all the various 4th gen product brochures, ATRAC wasn't available until 2009 and only then on the Trail Edition models, which also came with a factory rear e-locker. Other 2009 4Runners (SR5, Sport, Limited) came with plain old TRAC and not A-TRAC.

What's the difference between TRAC and A-TRAC? Beats me.

I actually prefer to have the center locker there and add the rear locker to it.. I believe the Trails do not have a locking center.. just the rear.. and it works well, but I like the idea of a manually 100% locking center diff.. something about it very comforting.. maybe the 09 Trails had the second gen Atrac systems??

 

[AKmoney]

so in case anyone is wondering why the switch.. well, its not really the suspension that scares me in a Land Rover.. you can actually just convert to a coil spring pretty easily... its actually the brilliant Terrain Response that scares me more than anything.. why? because if you loose as much as one speed sensor, the whole system goes out the window! if your air suspension compressor overheats or stops working, the system shuts off.. if your traction control module gets wet, it shuts off.. there are too many ways that system can fail, and it usually doesn't (3rd gen or newer) but if it does, you may as well be driving a Honda Accord on that trail.. then your hiking back.. even the center locker can only be activated by the system when it wants to.. if there was a manual way to engage the center locker (or rear locker in the HD models) I would consider keeping the LR3 and the LR4 is just too nice and kind of expensive to beat around like that..

they do have problems off course but they are not as bad as some people think.. I'm in the auto business so small issues don't scare me, and all you have to do is just buy used parts, and your good.. and as long as you DO NOT follow Land Rovers maintenance schedule and do everything early or divide the recommended fluid change mileages in half, these things will keep going.. with that being said, its no Toyota. I would feel a lot safer taking the 4Runner off the grid than either of the Land Rovers..

Thanks for the feedback. I've heard the LR3 (and presumably) LR4 are far more reliable than the older Discos but at the end of the day, when you have that many technical gadgets in a vehicle it doesn't really matter if it's a Toyota or a Land Rover... MTBF will suffer. Just trying to think long term. I won't have my 4Runner forever - hard to believe it's 12 years old. Perhaps I'll look at a GX 460 in a few years once they've tanked in value.

 

[AKmoney]

I actually prefer to have the center locker there and add the rear locker to it.. I believe the Trails do not have a locking center.. just the rear.. and it works well, but I like the idea of a manually 100% locking center diff.. something about it very comforting.. maybe the 09 Trails had the second gen Atrac systems??

Here's what the 2009 manual says.. Kinda confusing. It appears that on the 2009 Trail Edition, when you lock the center diff (which it has, apparently), A-TRAC doesn't turn on by default. You have to toggle it on with the button.

It does say that if you have the rear locker enabled, A-TRAC is only effective below 4mph.

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

Here's what the 2009 manual says.. Kinda confusing. It appears that on the 2009 Trail Edition, when you lock the center diff (which it has, apparently), A-TRAC doesn't turn on by default. You have to toggle it on with the button.

It does say that if you have the rear locker enabled, A-TRAC is only effective below 4mph.

yep my dad has a 2012 trail. every time he turns it off when were on trails he has to remember to not only hit the rsca off but also the ATRAC button. and the speed limitation is kind of a ***** some times too, i really need to do the gray wire mod on his

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

I actually prefer to have the center locker there and add the rear locker to it.. I believe the Trails do not have a locking center.. just the rear.. and it works well, but I like the idea of a manually 100% locking center diff.. something about it very comforting.. maybe the 09 Trails had the second gen Atrac systems??

ATRAC II was introduced with the 03 4runner, its remained the same into the current 2016 runners and tacomas. ATRAC I was introduced in the later 3rd gens and it was pretty trash since it used only a single ABS ring in the rear and didnt have the polarized ABS rings along with the much less substantial brakes compared to ours. and the 2009 trail retained the same electrically actuated Transfercase with center diff, it wasnt until 2010 with the 5th gen that the trail got the manual tcase the fj has

 

[dkyleb]

ATRAC II was introduced with the 03 4runner, its remained the same into the current 2016 runners and tacomas. ATRAC I was introduced in the later 3rd gens and it was pretty trash since it used only a single ABS ring in the rear and didnt have the polarized ABS rings along with the much less substantial brakes compared to ours. and the 2009 trail retained the same electrically actuated Transfercase with center diff, it wasnt until 2010 with the 5th gen that the trail got the manual tcase the fj has

Not doubting your answers by any means... But where did you learn all this?

 

[RonJR]

OP, I appreciate the video. It's pretty obvious that the LR performed better in this situation than the T4R. However, I'm a bit confused, because I've seen videos referenced on this forum where the T4R handled similar hills to the one you were using for testing, and did a much better job than yours did. To be honest, your 4Runner pretty much behaved as though ATRAC was not working at all. I would have definitely expected better performance and I can see why you were disappointed.

I have no first hand knowledge, not yet having had the opportunity to take my '06 on a similarly difficult trail (have to wait for summer around here). I wonder, though, if not using 4Lo had more to do with it than you may have thought. I spent quite a bit of time investigating the FJ Cruiser before I bought the 4Runner, and I'm pretty sure I read in multiple places that the FJ ATRAC is much more aggressive in 4Lo than in 4Hi. That may be true of the 4Runner as well.

Just trying to correlate all of the different experiences I read about here. Still don't have a real clear picture.