2019 SAS 5th gen Build

[4rNCMTNs]

i was going to say the spring rate is bizarre. but its a rock crawler, not a go fast desert toy so i'm clueless....same thing with the uptravel vs down travel. wouldnt you want ride height to be close to center on the shock travel so you have lots of up travel and down travel?



genuinely asking, as rock crawling is a whole different world







Awesome build, a thread worth checking the forum for lol

At this point I tend to agree on the spring rate. The springs in now are the helper springs not the main upper spring. Those will be in 500# range. We are working with wide open design on the springs and they build rock buggies and rock bouncers which is again an entirely different world. We are not sure the starting rate on the helper springs which is why we ordered 5 set of springs on Friday for delivery Monday. They are great in that we can send back all the springs we do not use. So by the end of the day Monday, I'll know what the final mix is front and rear.

Definitely not a go fast truck. This truck would not do well at that and would need additional suspension damping like most of west coast do with bypass shocks.

In any case short of a custom built rock crawler or rock buggy with ifs 4-6" is most common amount of up travel with lots more down travel. Last year I wheeler with a guy in cherokee who had 60" of total travel. He had so much up travel had rear floor cut. We could add 2" more of up-travel in the rear but would have to cut the floor to allow the links to move up into cabin. The expense of doing this is just not worth it. My 4R will be plenty capable and serve me well for a long time. I have 16" shocks and we will limit the total travel to 15.5" split between up and down.

I have a lot to learn about my 4R and that will start next Wednesday at what should be a very muddy Windrock park due to Ida. I will do my best to record and post as much as I can to show what it's capable of.

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[4rNCMTNs]

Here's the only photo I took today of the beginning of frenching the rear shock towers. You can see how thin the frame really is. In fact this part is a little thicker where the holes are but rest is rather thin.

Today we got brake lines run along with air lines for lockers. Also finished mount for steering box, orbital, and maybe even the rest of the full hydraulic steering system. I had to leave early so not sure if it's all mounted and lines all produced and plumbed. Also worked on the gas tank and it looks like we will add an external fuel pump since new gas tank is not deep enough for one.

I will not be able to go see it again until Wednesday morning when we will load it up on a trailer and head to TN for ATR. I will continue to post the photos as I receive them.

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[honda250xtitan]

hahaha ohhhh theyre the helper springs. makes so much more sense now lol

 

[Jeremy556]

i was going to say the spring rate is bizarre. but its a rock crawler, not a go fast desert toy so i'm clueless....same thing with the uptravel vs down travel. wouldnt you want ride height to be close to center on the shock travel so you have lots of up travel and down travel?

genuinely asking, as rock crawling is a whole different world



Awesome build, a thread worth checking the forum for lol

With 16" coilovers you are looking at multi rate springs, where you have multiple springs with differing spring rates stacked on top of each other. Also keep in mind with a solid axle, the spring rates will be much lower than with the IFS springs which are leveraged like 2:1.

When you start getting into this realm of travel, you can't sit at 50% ride height without being massively tall and a horrible COG, so you sit low in the suspension travel and have tons of down travel.

 

[osugsxr]

would like to see the 2nd row seating go in. :cheers:

 

[4rNCMTNs]

With 16" coilovers you are looking at multi rate springs, where you have multiple springs with differing spring rates stacked on top of each other. Also keep in mind with a solid axle, the spring rates will be much lower than with the IFS springs which are leveraged like 2:1.

When you start getting into this realm of travel, you can't sit at 50% ride height without being massively tall and a horrible COG, so you sit low in the suspension travel and have tons of down travel.

Bingo, much better said then how I wrote it.

For example, I had 700# springs in the front with my IFS and today have a 150# helper spring in which may go up to a 175 and then the top spring will most likely be in the 250 range. I will confirm all spring rates on Monday once we have the best set installed.

We have done our best to keep the truck as low as possible naturally, several weeks ago we jointly decided it was best to raise COG up 1" for better clearance of the tires. It's not so much the height as it is the width of the lugs. Now we have zero clearance problems under compressor or lock to lock with the steering.

 

[4rNCMTNs]

would like to see the 2nd row seating go in. :cheers:

The second row seats never came out. Can't wait for my kids to go out with me in a few weeks, they will love it.

I have the first set of short drawers from Air Down Gear Up which I will put in on Tuesday night before we leave Wednesday morning. I test fit them in my 2010. My drawers are shorter than normal due the presence of my batteries in back. The top platform will cover the batteries and the drawers stop just in front of the forward bolt position for 3rd row seats.

 

[4rNCMTNs]

Here's a few photos from the end of the day yesterday and from today getting the front axles getting installed.

You see the rear tire at full stuff, the amount that was made for the steering pump and then two different angles for the front RCV axle shafts.

It was one thing to see on the axle the 47 spline female end but now to see it on the RCV is just awesome.

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[4rNCMTNs]

A short update from this morning. After first looking at the fuel tank and sending unit on Saturday it was determined 100% late yesterday we would need an external fuel pump. After some correspondence with Gadget from URD we determined what to get, etc.

We were not able to find a Holley, Aeromotive, etc for delivery within Tuesday so, I went to Amazon and found an evil energy pump, filter, and mounts which will ship today for delivery tomorrow. So today they will prepare the supply lines and electrical connections to be ready for a "quick" install" tomorrow when it arrives.

Hopefully by end of today I'll be able to post pictures of it sitting on it's own weight with all the springs on.

 

[4rNCMTNs]

Here's my short evening update for tonight.

The bump stops have all been installed and that took longer than anticipated today. You can see in the one photo they were melted on the inside of the frame rail in the back.

Also got the shock Tower brace installed in the front. Had always planned for it to be tubular but after trying to find a way to do it around the front of the supercharger decided to do it with the flat stock which will be both to the top of each shock tower and go over the top of the supercharger and still allow the hood to close without any issues.

Also nearly completed the brace between the two rear shock towers it just needs to be removed with two bungs welded in so it can be removable.

Also, got the air filter more or less placed. Tomorrow morning very early the limits traps will be put in and then route the final bit of plumbing for the steering and lockers. Have a few more mounts to produce to mount the few steering pieces and that will be the second thing completed tomorrow morning.

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[honda250xtitan]

so awesome


hey at least the flat stock will just flex a little and nothing will break

 

[4rNCMTNs]

Final Build Day - for now...

So today will be the final build day and it will go on a trailer later today or very early tomorrow morning.

Lots of little things to do today which just take time. Yesterday was the culmination of 9 days straight and everyone was tired so not as much got done as would have liked.

So here's our final list of things to do today to make it a trail worthy beast:

1. Install fuel tank
2. Install new fuel pump with correct fittings (again thankfully I live by a lot of race shops so getting these will be very easy)
3. Finish running the new fuel lines.
3. Fabricate mount and install remote oil filter
4. Fabricate mount and install steering fluid cooler
5. Run locker air lines
6. Install limit straps
7. Finish exhaust
8. Finish fuse box relocation
9. Cut Air Down Gear Up top platform so it will fit between the rear shock towers
10. Cut stock rear plastic so it fits around the rear shock towers and re-install.
11. Paint axles, frame, etc.

12. Post pictures and maybe a short video when done today and may more over the next few days as I start to discover what this beast can do.

 

[4rNCMTNs]

The final push is on seven people are working on the truck this morning and I'm headed to go get a few more fittings for the gas and oil lines. The finish line is within sight!

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[montijo505]

Well?!


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[4rNCMTNs]

Well we finished a lot but not all of what I listed above for today. It will be driving and at ATR but I will not drive it off-road. This is the case because we have not been able to test it at all yet.

On top of this we've been having a heck of a time with fittings. Today we ended up tig welding two aluminum fittings together for the oil filter relocation but I ended up breaking that fragile weld when attaching them to the block off plate.

The gas tank and steering is fully installed and all liquids put back into vehicle. As of roughly 9:30 this evening we estimated about 12 hours more work to finish it.

It's amazing how far we have come since day one on 5 July. Yes we are a little disappointed it its hard to be upset or sad given the nature of what we are building.

So now tomorrow, I will take plenty of pictures to show the beautiful work that was done today by two more guest fabricators.

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[4rNCMTNs]

Well, too many fuel pump problems last night and the truck is not drivable at the moment. But it's on the trailer and we are taking it.

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[rdruss]

Well, at least you won't need all the tools I was going to suggest you take.

 

[4rNCMTNs]

Well, at least you won't need all the tools I was going to suggest you take.

I travel with a full set of tools to remove of course all metric wrenches 8-19mm 3/8" drive even if I don't need all of them others with me may. I will now also now carry the same in standard for all the bolts on the suspension which are 1" and 1 1/4", as well as some smaller ones I need to confirm.

torque wrench
rubber 4# or 6# (don't remember) mallet
impact wrench
plenty other miscellaneous hand tools, allen wrenches, knife, scissors, zip ties (multiple lengths).
spare hydraulic lines for both high pressure and low pressure for steering and oil lines, as well as brake line.
Spare link which can work for both upper and lower links
Spare tie rod for steering

Finally toying with the idea of carrying a 12v welder for trail fixes.

 

[rdruss]

I travel with a full set of tools to remove of course all metric wrenches 8-19mm 3/8" drive even if I don't need all of them others with me may. I will now also now carry the same in standard for all the bolts on the suspension which are 1" and 1 1/4", as well as some smaller ones I need to confirm.

torque wrench
rubber 4# or 6# (don't remember) mallet
impact wrench
plenty other miscellaneous hand tools, allen wrenches, knife, scissors, zip ties (multiple lengths).
spare hydraulic lines for both high pressure and low pressure for steering and oil lines, as well as brake line.
Spare link which can work for both upper and lower links
Spare tie rod for steering

Finally toying with the idea of carrying a 12v welder for trail fixes.

Once you get this beast sorted out you shouldn't need too many I wouldn't think!

 

[4rNCMTNs]

No, I will not need a lot just have both standard and now metric. will most likely keep the few metric I carry (8,10,12 etc.), and one large adjustable wrench for the suspension. The allen wrenches, etc will stay along with the spare items mentioned above. I also like to have some other socket sizes I may not need but other will. Also not listed above is my jumper cables.

We had an issue last week on the buggy in the picture above where the alternator died and we had to jump it 3 times to hold enough charge to get back to camp and go buy a new one along with fan for trans cooler which also broke on the trail.