285’s on a 2016 4Runner Trail - Fender Liner Mod

[Engineer]

Well this is nerve racking. I'm so close to pulling the trigger upon my FJ80 selling to purchase my icon stage 2 and 285/70/17's to par with it. Same boat as you; case by case and many people said that it wouldn't be a problem. Now seeing this and how it was more of an endeavor rather than a project makes me second guess it all. I don't wanna undermine the severity of this seeing as how much of a chore it was for you. Was hoping I could just put the 285's in and heat gun as much plastic as possible to keep it from rubbing, looks like not so much.

Don't let the photos/steps fool you, I understand that everyone's familiarity and confidence tinkering with stuff is different but as far as a "mod" goes, this is about as easy as it gets (NOT trying to minimize the effort or belittle the OP, the write up is excellent and I myself noticed a couple years back that it was hard to clarify what exactly had to be done so thank you for that) but 10min with a razor blade and a screw driver, assuming you remove the mud flaps and you will be good to go. Worst case is it takes you a couple tries and you get minor rubbing, it will always be drivable through the entire process.

Only comment I would have if you don't fancy yourself with a wrench and plan to keep the 4runner awhile I would shy away from a rebuild able "race" shock or at least don't be surprised if you have to get a rebuild at 30k miles.

 

[JasonKoko]

Fantastic write up! Your modifications look very well done, if I didn't know what I was looking for I wouldn't even notice. Truck looks great - you should be proud.

Wow! Thanks for the compliment!

I badly need to redo the plastidip on the center front under the Toyota badge now that I'm aquatinted with the front bumper removal. But you can't see the imperfections unless you're close up.

I'm super anxious to get some time off and take a trip to some place cold and off-grid!


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[JasonKoko]

Don't let the photos/steps fool you, I understand that everyone's familiarity and confidence tinkering with stuff is different but as far as a "mod" goes, this is about as easy as it gets (NOT trying to minimize the effort or belittle the OP, the write up is excellent and I myself noticed a couple years back that it was hard to clarify what exactly had to be done so thank you for that) but 10min with a razor blade and a screw driver, assuming you remove the mud flaps and you will be good to go. Worst case is it takes you a couple tries and you get minor rubbing, it will always be drivable through the entire process.

Only comment I would have if you don't fancy yourself with a wrench and plan to keep the 4runner awhile I would shy away from a rebuild able "race" shock or at least don't be surprised if you have to get a rebuild at 30k miles.

No belittlement taken!

I used to be a lot more comfortable with getting a little dirty. This is the first vehicle I've had in a while that I've had a desire to do some of these little projects. I'll get warmed up shortly.

All in all, this really was super simple. I wanted to do a detailed write up, because as mentioned in the first post in this thread, this mod wasn't super clear in other posts and I figured a detailed write up might help give context to others looking to do the mod.

 

[JasonKoko]

I figured I'd post a quick update.

After driving a bit and doing some very mild off-roading locally, I've had just a hair of rubbing on the front bumper (at the bottom) where the bottom was coming to sort of a point (you can see in the pictures of the final).

I trimmed it down quite a bit and resanded it to get a good finish, so hopefully this will eliminate that bit of rubbing.

I'll post some pictures later!

 

[Snowgun]

Great writeup! I'm going to be doing this mod first thing. I only plan on putting 255/75/17's on after a toytek lift (with 0 offspaced rims) but I want to make sure I can put a larger tire on in the future.

 

[JasonKoko]

Took some better photos last weekend.

Follow my instagram for more photos in the future as I publish them. :dancin:

 

[coltm4]

Out of curiosity, is your mod essentially this mod at this thread?http://www.toyota-4runner.org/tsb/190317-t-sb-0009-15-trd-pro-bumper-fender-interference.html

Except that there was cutting of the piece you moved back?

 

[JasonKoko]

Out of curiosity, is your mod essentially this mod at this thread?http://www.toyota-4runner.org/tsb/190317-t-sb-0009-15-trd-pro-bumper-fender-interference.html



Except that there was cutting of the piece you moved back?

Looks pretty much the same. I also cut the lower part of the bumper. Doesn't look like my finish quality is as good as theirs though.




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[ZeroT4R]

275 70 17 ko2, does rub. Rubs before the lift and after the lift as well as with spacers. I did this same mod and I still lightly rub when turning at full lock im upping to 285s next weekend :rockon:

 

[Brandonium]

That is weird.. in all the threads I have searched and read I have not heard of others having rubbing issues with the 275. I'm assuming you are running the stock Trail wheels?

Another question is tire. Not all tires are equal so is this rubbing just with the T/A KO2? Someone in these threads tossed a 285 Cooper AT3 on the stock suspension without rubbing so just trying to figure out what's what before moving forward. I'm not a fan of cutting and notching on a newly expensive vehicle.

275 70 17 ko2, does rub. Rubs before the lift and after the lift as well as with spacers. I did this same mod and I still lightly rub when turning at full lock im upping to 285s next weekend :rockon:

 

[sn_85]

That is weird.. in all the threads I have searched and read I have not heard of others having rubbing issues with the 275. I'm assuming you are running the stock Trail wheels?

Another question is tire. Not all tires are equal so is this rubbing just with the T/A KO2? Someone in these threads tossed a 285 Cooper AT3 on the stock suspension without rubbing so just trying to figure out what's what before moving forward. I'm not a fan of cutting and notching on a newly expensive vehicle.

If you're not a fan of cutting then stick with stock size tires and stock wheels. Each tire and wheel combo will be different. I'm running 265 KO2's and SCS Stealth 6 wheels and my front driver size rubs like mad in reverse on full lock. This is on my new 16 Trail and its rubs way more than it did on my 13 LE. If you want to get 285's be prepared to trim something, there's no way around it. If not get 265 in a less aggressive tread pattern then the bfg.


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[1engineer]

That is weird.. in all the threads I have searched and read I have not heard of others having rubbing issues with the 275. I'm assuming you are running the stock Trail wheels?

Another question is tire. Not all tires are equal so is this rubbing just with the T/A KO2? Someone in these threads tossed a 285 Cooper AT3 on the stock suspension without rubbing so just trying to figure out what's what before moving forward. I'm not a fan of cutting and notching on a newly expensive vehicle.

As I explained in numerous posts, not all 4Runners are the same. As a matter of fact, no two 4Runners are exactly the same.

This vehicle is body on frame. When it is manufactured, there are suspension components that have tolerances. When you start putting these components together, those tolerances "stack up" and you could have a fair amount of dimensional difference, even from one side to another. This is why there is a lot of adjustment of the cam bolts for aligning the wheels. Caster setting has a large "range" and as long as you are in that range, the Toyota spec calls it good.

Remember that even with stock tires the distances between the tire and fender liner or mudflap is not much when the wheels are fully turned. If you put a larger tire on there and the caster is closer to one end or the other of the caster range, then you will rub. Sometimes when going bigger you could need to get the caster setting changed even if you do the fender liner or mudflap mod. If you decide to use spacers or run wheels that have a higher offset then the chances of rubbing go up exponentially by pushing the centerline of the tire away from the body.

Bottom line: Your neighbor could have installed 285's with no mods and no rub. You could install 275's and have a slight rub. Never mind for example that even though two different tires are a series 265, there will be a dimensional difference between manufacturers.

This is why my fitment guide is pretty vague. Because of the differences outlined above, vague is the best you can get with respect to this mod.

 

[Brandonium]

I get that variations exist.. I'd like to think that those variations are not so wide as to allow one person to put 285's on with no suspension mods and drive away without rubbing while the other person with a lift is having to trim his liners. I mean would we settle for a 3" gap between the fenders and doors on some 4Runners if our other brothers were getting 4Runners with 1" gaps? I think not. If the service department chalked that up to 'variances in manufacturing' I'd call BS on them.

But how large of a variance can there be if someone is rubbing with a lift and 275's and someone with 285's on stock suspension isn't? Too large if you ask me.

Thing is you do your due diligence to read up on what can and cannot be done and in my case you come across those posts where people have had less issues...then you run into this post where it's covering the modifications that were not needed in some of the earlier posts I stumbled across.

Now I get that the 285 will more or less need something done in order to circumvent rubbing but a 275? I've been up, down, in and out of the lifted section for the Gen5 and did not come across rubbing issues with a 275 tire (on factory rims). Perhaps I overlooked some if they were in there. Who knows. :noidea:

As I explained in numerous posts, not all 4Runners are the same. As a matter of fact, no two 4Runners are exactly the same.

This vehicle is body on frame. When it is manufactured, there are suspension components that have tolerances. When you start putting these components together, those tolerances "stack up" and you could have a fair amount of dimensional difference, even from one side to another. This is why there is a lot of adjustment of the cam bolts for aligning the wheels. Caster setting has a large "range" and as long as you are in that range, the Toyota spec calls it good.

Remember that even with stock tires the distances between the tire and fender liner or mudflap is not much when the wheels are fully turned. If you put a larger tire on there and the caster is closer to one end or the other of the caster range, then you will rub. Sometimes when going bigger you could need to get the caster setting changed even if you do the fender liner or mudflap mod. If you decide to use spacers or run wheels that have a higher offset then the chances of rubbing go up exponentially by pushing the centerline of the tire away from the body.

Bottom line: Your neighbor could have installed 285's with no mods and no rub. You could install 275's and have a slight rub. Never mind for example that even though two different tires are a series 265, there will be a dimensional difference between manufacturers.

This is why my fitment guide is pretty vague. Because of the differences outlined above, vague is the best you can get with respect to this mod.

 

[1engineer]

I get that variations exist.. I'd like to think that those variations are not so wide as to allow one person to put 285's on with no suspension mods and drive away without rubbing while the other person with a lift is having to trim his liners. I mean would we settle for a 3" gap between the fenders and doors on some 4Runners if our other brothers were getting 4Runners with 1" gaps? I think not. If the service department chalked that up to 'variances in manufacturing' I'd call BS on them.

But how large of a variance can there be if someone is rubbing with a lift and 275's and someone with 285's on stock suspension isn't? Too large if you ask me.

Thing is you do your due diligence to read up on what can and cannot be done and in my case you come across those posts where people have had less issues...then you run into this post where it's covering the modifications that were not needed in some of the earlier posts I stumbled across.

Now I get that the 285 will more or less need something done in order to circumvent rubbing but a 275? I've been up, down, in and out of the lifted section for the Gen5 and did not come across rubbing issues with a 275 tire (on factory rims). Perhaps I overlooked some if they were in there. Who knows. :noidea:

Yes many here have rubbed with 275's and I didn't ask you because obviously you have never designed anything with tolerances.

You can think what you want lol but I wrote the truth. Go out, cut your wheels all the way and tell me how much clearance you have with the stock tires to the mud flaps. Not much right? Now, do a search and find out how much variance there is in caster range. Quite a bit.

Think about it this way from an engineering standpoint: Some dimensions are critical, like the hood gap or backlash on gears. Some are not so critical, like the center to center distance from rear wheel to front wheel or center front wheel to mud flap. When you design something, there are tolerances. There has to be because nothing is made exactly to the ten thousandth every time. Why? Cost. Making something perfect every time costs a lot of money and time so tolerances are built in. Let me give you a really simple example:

Let's say you need to put 4 bars of steel together and the critical dimension is a length of 12.000, plus .003 and minus .003. The other dimensions are not as critical but the four pieces have to stack up to 11.997 to 12.003. the other pieces obviously need to be 3" but because the critical dimension is the overall length in this case some of those 3's could be 2.9 or 3.1 because those are not as important as the critical dimension of 12.000. Get it? In this type of vehicle there are critical dimensions that have to be perfect and there are dimensions that are "adjustable" for example. How do you adjust a dimension? Rubber bushing, slotted holes and adjustable alignment specs are just a few ways to get everything to fit nice and tidy.

Go open your hood. Do you see the adjustments located on either side of the radiator support? Those are to set the front hood height. Why are there no adjustments in the back for hood height? Because that is a critical dimension. The front of the hood, where it latches, is not and there needs to be some sort of adjustment for the latch. There are adjustments, bushings and slots all over the 4Runner. It's not perfect and when it comes to tire fitment an 1/8" is a big deal.

Believe me or not I don't care but the above post is right, whether you believe it or not. Lastly, a suspension lift on the 4Runner does not help you fit a larger tire so you can get rid of that myth right now.

 

[Brandonium]

You are such a mythbuster.. But I can appreciate where you are coming from. I don't claim to be an expert on engineering because I am certainly not. :eyebrows:

I'll just have to pucker up and see what happens when I pull the trigger. There might not be a bullet in the chamber then again I might redecorate the wall. :rofl:

Yes many here have rubbed with 275's and I didn't ask you because obviously you have never designed anything with tolerances.

You can think what you want lol but I wrote the truth. Go out, cut your wheels all the way and tell me how much clearance you have with the stock tires to the mud flaps. Not much right? Now, do a search and find out how much variance there is in caster range. Quite a bit.

Think about it this way from an engineering standpoint: Some dimensions are critical, like the hood gap or backlash on gears. Some are not so critical, like the center to center distance from rear wheel to front wheel or center front wheel to mud flap. When you design something, there are tolerances. There has to be because nothing is made exactly to the ten thousandth every time. Why? Cost. Making something perfect every time costs a lot of money and time so tolerances are built in. Let me give you a really simple example:

Let's say you need to put 4 bars of steel together and the critical dimension is a length of 12.000, plus .003 and minus .003. The other dimensions are not as critical but the four pieces have to stack up to 11.997 to 12.003. the other pieces obviously need to be 3" but because the critical dimension is the overall length in this case some of those 3's could be 2.9 or 3.1 because those are not as important as the critical dimension of 12.000. Get it? In this type of vehicle there are critical dimensions that have to be perfect and there are dimensions that are "adjustable" for example. How do you adjust a dimension? Rubber bushing, slotted holes and adjustable alignment specs are just a few ways to get everything to fit nice and tidy.

Go open your hood. Do you see the adjustments located on either side of the radiator support? Those are to set the front hood height. Why are there no adjustments in the back for hood height? Because that is a critical dimension. The front of the hood, where it latches, is not and there needs to be some sort of adjustment for the latch. There are adjustments, bushings and slots all over the 4Runner. It's not perfect and when it comes to tire fitment an 1/8" is a big deal.

Believe me or not I don't care but the above post is right, whether you believe it or not. Lastly, a suspension lift on the 4Runner does not help you fit a larger tire so you can get rid of that myth right now.

 

[Brandonium]

So this is weird? I do not see this tire in this load rating on us.coopertire.com

I don't think I've seen a 285/70R17 in load range B before

https://www.treaddepot.com/#!productDetail/tireStandardFitment/90000002702

 

[LowCountrySilverTP]

Awesome write up, kudos SWELLRUNNER!

Personally, I almost just got 275's shipped in and sent the 285's back.

But I figured I might still end up feeling the need to do the fender liner mod, so I chose to just keep the 285's.




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Jason, phenomenal write up my dude, I thank and salute you for it. Your rig has reaped all the benefits as it looks AMAZEballs!

I was looking to run the same setup as you until I saw your IG post which led me here.

I only plan on doing a 3" Toytec coil lift, and now doing the 275/70/17. Is there anything I'm not thinking of? Any advice for me or food for thought?

Thanks again bro, I would love to get that same roof rack eventually, but it's sooooo pricey. Thanks in advance!

 

[Lakers]

Just did something similar to this the other day on mine. Went with 285/70/17 ko2s with a 3" lift and had bad rubbing in reverse after my alignment. All I did was remove the two bolts, pull the liner in and drill new holes and boom, all rubbing was gone. Thankfully I didn't have to cut anything.

 

[JasonKoko]

Jason, phenomenal write up my dude, I thank and salute you for it. Your rig has reaped all the benefits as it looks AMAZEballs!

I was looking to run the same setup as you until I saw your IG post which led me here.

I only plan on doing a 3" Toytec coil lift, and now doing the 275/70/17. Is there anything I'm not thinking of? Any advice for me or food for thought?

Thanks again bro, I would love to get that same roof rack eventually, but it's sooooo pricey. Thanks in advance!

Haha. Thanks!!

I don't think there's anything else to consider. My rubbing could have been exaggerated by the spacers, so if you don't do the spacers it might not be as big of an issue.




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[LowCountrySilverTP]

Well shit, lol. Granted I haven't seen it all setup yet, but I'm sure I'm gonna end up putting spacers on there for a more aggressive look. Did your 285's look too tucked in without the spacers? And what spacers did you go with? Thanks!