6th gen 2017 4R, will it exist?

[1engineer]

Great last few posts regarding your thoughts and possible conclusions regarding a possible 6th gen 4R. I am a longtime 4R owner (owned 5 so far). I had to switch over to an Acura MDX recently only because I was told the 6th gen was not in the works as of yet and I couldn't wait forever. If as of 2 years ago the next gen 4R was not green lighted, does it seem likely that a major redesign or refresh is several years out yet? I know 2017 is the "normal" cycle for the next 4runner but I believe the average time to do a major overhaul takes longer.

I too hope the 6th gen is out sooner than later! If they decide to utilize the new Tacoma 3.5L, that would be disappointing. Its a less powerful motor than the current 4.0L and the 4runner weighs more as well. My preference would be to see the current V6 gain Direct injection, Atkinson, and the 6sp auto.

Thanks!

Please take forum posts (mine included) like [MENTION=114416]Gecko[/MENTION] is doing with caution. While there are elements of truth to his posts there is quite a bit of misinformation and conjecture too. If you know anything about vehicle planning then you would know that sure, the 6th gen was not green lighted until a few years ago, as he states correctly. What he DID NOT say is they have worked on the 6th gen for several years before that! It isn't like they started working on the 6th gen two years ago! It was mostly DONE two years ago! While [MENTION=114416]Gecko[/MENTION]'s posts are informative they also contain supposition and don't tell the whole story. Whoever told you the 6th gen was not going to happen (why you bought an MDX) clearly knows very little.

Let me give you a bit of newsworthy information but take it as it is:

They are currently working on the 7th generation. Yep, as of right now they are working on the next iteration of the 4Runner. Here is the caveat: While they are working on the design now, over the next few years marketing and economic conditions will dictate whether there will be a 7th gen headed to production. There is a "go, no go" time frame on EVERY vehicle, usually 2-3 years before the launch of a new model that every manufacturer has to use. Some vehicles like the Camry or CR-V are so ingrained in the market that it is a continuing model development and very few major changes. Some of the smaller production run vehicles (under 100K/yr) need a more serious market evaluation before a new model is introduced.

The biggest problem I see reading threads like this is the general population's ignorance on timing. FYI: It takes a LONG time to design a new model of an existing vehicle and even longer time to design a completely new vehicle! Why? Design, manufacturing processes, product and parts procurement, tooling, etc. Here is a rough time table just so some of you understand:

For a mid cycle design refresh: 2-3 years
For a new model of an existing vehicle: 4-6 years
For a completely new model vehicle: 5-7 years

So, when the 5th gen was introduced in late 2009 it was STARTED in 2003!
When the 5th gen was introduced in late 2009 the 6th gen was already being designed!(!) Now that the 6th gen is coming (my estimate is we will see the prototype in Dec-Jan of 2015-2016) they have already put pencil to paper on the 7th gen! Do you guys understand this now?

With that said the OEM manufacturers CAN make minor changes in 6-12 months. Also even though the 7th gen is being designed it is in no way certain to be produced. Again, in three years or so there will be an evaluation of the market and economy to determine if it is a viable product in 2022 or so. Just remember it takes a LONG time to make molds, produce tooling, change assembly lines, set up vendors, procure raw materials and the other 1,000 things that need to happen before a new generation comes out. It's not magic. Hope this helps some of you.

 

[bigbwb]

Please take forum posts (mine included) like [MENTION=114416]Gecko[/MENTION] is doing with caution. While there are elements of truth to his posts there is quite a bit of misinformation and conjecture too. If you know anything about vehicle planning then you would know that sure, the 6th gen was not green lighted until a few years ago, as he states correctly. What he DID NOT say is they have worked on the 6th gen for several years before that! It isn't like they started working on the 6th gen two years ago! It was mostly DONE two years ago! While [MENTION=114416]Gecko[/MENTION]'s posts are informative they also contain supposition and don't tell the whole story. Whoever told you the 6th gen was not going to happen (why you bought an MDX) clearly knows very little.

Let me give you a bit of newsworthy information but take it as it is:

They are currently working on the 7th generation. Yep, as of right now they are working on the next iteration of the 4Runner. Here is the caveat: While they are working on the design now, over the next few years marketing and economic conditions will dictate whether there will be a 7th gen headed to production. There is a "go, no go" time frame on EVERY vehicle, usually 2-3 years before the launch of a new model that every manufacturer has to use. Some vehicles like the Camry or CR-V are so ingrained in the market that it is a continuing model development and very few major changes. Some of the smaller production run vehicles (under 100K/yr) need a more serious market evaluation before a new model is introduced.

The biggest problem I see reading threads like this is the general population's ignorance on timing. FYI: It takes a LONG time to design a new model of an existing vehicle and even longer time to design a completely new vehicle! Why? Design, manufacturing processes, product and parts procurement, tooling, etc. Here is a rough time table just so some of you understand:

For a mid cycle design refresh: 2-3 years
For a new model of an existing vehicle: 4-6 years
For a completely new model vehicle: 5-7 years

So, when the 5th gen was introduced in late 2009 it was STARTED in 2003!
When the 5th gen was introduced in late 2009 the 6th gen was already being designed!(!) Now that the 6th gen is coming (my estimate is we will see the prototype in Dec-Jan of 2015-2016) they have already put pencil to paper on the 7th gen! Do you guys understand this now?

With that said the OEM manufacturers CAN make minor changes in 6-12 months. Also even though the 7th gen is being designed it is in no way certain to be produced. Again, in three years or so there will be an evaluation of the market and economy to determine if it is a viable product in 2022 or so. Just remember it takes a LONG time to make molds, produce tooling, change assembly lines, set up vendors, procure raw materials and the other 1,000 things that need to happen before a new generation comes out. It's not magic. Hope this helps some of you.

Very informative, thank you! The person who told me about the 6th Gen not happening was a person on another forum I belong to and supposedly had some access to insider info/rumors. Obviously, they were JUST rumors. I take everything I read online with a grain of salt and needed to buy my MDX anyway in hopes that if the 6th Gen 4R comes out in a few years, I can just trade up.

Its refreshing to hear the 6th and 7th gen are at least in the works and that there is hope for the foreseeable future that the 4R will live on! I agree we will likely start to hear/see info regarding the new 4R sometime into next year as more testing is conducted and etc.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[jwkilgore]

I'm wondering if the eventual extinction of BOF vehicles will make offroad trucks something you sticker like an ATV rather than license for driving, and you tow them on a trailer behind your CUV like a demolition derby car.

The BoF will never disappear completely because there are specific reasons for the design to exist. Trucks will likely always have BoF designs, and most full-size SUVs are still BoF. Worst case would be buying a mid-sized BoF truck and converting it to a SUV, just like they did in the old days with the Gen 1 4Runner.

The reality is that 98% of mid-sized SUV buyers never use or need the capabilities of a Bof and would be better served with a CUV (unibody).

Very informative, thank you! The person who told me about the 6th Gen not happening was a person on another forum I belong to and supposedly had some access to insider info/rumors. Obviously, they were JUST rumors. I take everything I read online with a grain of salt and needed to buy my MDX anyway in hopes that if the 6th Gen 4R comes out in a few years, I can just trade up.

Its refreshing to hear the 6th and 7th gen are at least in the works and that there is hope for the foreseeable future that the 4R will live on! I agree we will likely start to hear/see info regarding the new 4R sometime into next year as more testing is conducted and etc.

Thank you for the clarification.

Just to clarify again, [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] never said it was a 100% certainty that the 6th and 7th gen would be produced and sold in the USA. Only that the design process for the 6th gen is almost finished and the initial concept sketches of the 7th have started.

As an example, Nissan announced the cancellation of the XTerra line back in January. I'd bet a new set of Weathertech floormats that a full design for the next generation XTerra is sitting on a computer hard drive somewhere back in Nissan headquarters.

TOMOCO can decide to pull the plug on any vehicle line at any time if they decide the profit isn't there and/or the regulatory hurdles are too great, even after production has started. They could produce ten thousand units, say "nah, nevermind", switch the line to producing Land Cruisers, and ship those units off for sale in Africa. This is highly unlikely to happen, but it's possible. There are Taco diesels all over the world, but none in the USA.

I personally am not an automotive engineer, but I am an engineer who understands the complexities of design processes as well as the economic concept of "sunk costs". That said, 91.3% of all statistics are made up on the fly, and 100% of the information in this thread is speculation unless it comes with a link to back it up.

 

[Gecko]

Alright [MENTION=114416]Gecko[/MENTION] what gives? Last September I responded to your first post on this forum asking about a 5th gen 4Runner. You seemed like a nice enough sort that had basic questions and no knowledge of the 4Runner except having owned an older model 15 years ago. It seems like in eight months you really got an education...

Last year I was contemplating buying a 4Runner, yes, and had a few questions for owners here. A few things in my life changed and I decided to hold off for a bit. At this point, I'm planning to see what the 6th gen holds before revisiting a purchase, but we'll see how it shakes out.

 

[Bevo]

Last year I was contemplating buying a 4Runner, yes, and had a few questions for owners here. A few things in my life changed and I decided to hold off for a bit. At this point, I'm planning to see what the 6th gen holds before revisiting a purchase, but we'll see how it shakes out.

That still doesn't answer how you became a Toyota expert in the meantime. I am not trying to be an ass, but you are implying that you have some real inside knowledge that you did not have before.

 

[Gecko]

I have not become a Toyota expert in the last year. I've had friends and contacts who work inside ToMoCo, TMS and global distributors for a very long time.

I am more connected to other areas of the business - namely Lexus - but have asked for introductions and access to folks closer to Toyota trucks and SUVs as I've been on the fence with a purchase for the last year or so.

Hopefully that answers some of your questions.

 

[Bevo]

I have not become a Toyota expert in the last year. I've had friends and contacts who work inside ToMoCo, TMS and global distributors for a very long time.

I am more connected to other areas of the business - namely Lexus - but have asked for introductions and access to folks closer to Toyota trucks and SUVs as I've been on the fence with a purchase for the last year or so.

Hopefully that answers some of your questions.

Thanks, I just wanted to clarify since the first time you answered my question about your info the post was deleted.

A lot of the people around here are new to the Toyota scene and they take most things they read here as the gospel.

 

[Gecko]

No problem - happy to answer. I tried to point out where I am making assumptions - which is quite often.

1engineer and others have made great points so far. Overall, this is a much more productive "next generation we know nothing about" conversation than most forums.

 

[M1911]

Overall, this is a much more productive "next generation we know nothing about" conversation than most forums.

You mean it isn't going to come with a SFA, manual transmission, diesel engine, and be available in brown? Well then I'm going to get a real offroader instead, like a Subaru Crosstrek.

 

[Quentin]

JMHO, but the 4Runner won't see a redesign until model year 2018. Mid cycle was 2014, and 8 year model run is pretty normal for a more niche vehicle. Sales are booming unexpectantly, so no need to pull the redesign ahead. I think the 1GR won't outlive the 5th gen when all is said and done. We're looking at a consolidation of all of the V6s to basically one displacement that is tuned as needed (IS250 2.5L V6 getting replaced with a 3.5L at a relaxed tune, for example). The 4Runner will probably get the same Tacoma powertrain with weight reduction for the 6th gen.

 

[NoDak]

man isn't that a blatant spam with only 1 post. talk about whoring on your first post.

 

[NuclearN8]

The more I think about not only the next 4Runnner but vehicles in general...
if one looks at the trends I think Toyota would be really missing an opportunity (to increase mpg mostly) if they didn't offer a supercharger in the near future in all it's BOF trucks/ SUV's... this combined with lighter weight body panels (e.g. aluminum) and higher speed transmissions is what is going to happen I believe.
Look at the LC and LX, both are getting 8 spd trannys for 2016 so it's already happening at the high end, it'll trickle down. My guess is aluminum will be a huge part of the Land Cruiser 300 body and that too will eventually find it's way to the rest of the lineup.

 

[SKP-4R]

The more I think about not only the next 4Runnner but vehicles in general...
if one looks at the trends I think Toyota would be really missing an opportunity (to increase mpg mostly) if they didn't offer a supercharger in the near future in all it's BOF trucks/ SUV's... this combined with lighter weight body panels (e.g. aluminum) and higher speed transmissions is what is going to happen I believe.
Look at the LC and LX, both are getting 8 spd trannys for 2016 so it's already happening at the high end, it'll trickle down. My guess is aluminum will be a huge part of the Land Cruiser 300 body and that too will eventually find it's way to the rest of the lineup.

Superchargers are very inefficient. It would sap power at low RPMS. A turbo "ecoboost" alternative would be awesome. I'm all for smaller displacement supplemented by forced induction but realistically this is not something toyota would implement on a 4Runner. Like was previously said, less weight and small bump in torque and hp from the 3.5 Atkinson V6 on the new Tacoma is almost a given. I'm more looking forward to that new 6-speed transmission myself.

 

[off-road runner]

I just hope the next gen doesn't have those bro rope lights around the perimeter of the head lights.

 

[The Waco Kid]

I just hope the next gen doesn't have those bro rope lights around the perimeter of the head lights.

They're saving it for the next TRD Pro...:flame:

 

[NuclearN8]

I just want the next Generation 4Runner to be made available in GREEN

My wife and I keep discussing our next Toyota SUV purchase, which likely won't happen for another couple years when being realistic about our timetable to buy.

One week we're pro Land cruiser, the next we're all about a new 4Runner...and so the loop repeats itself....

What makes it hard for us is we don't NEED a land cruiser. it's just us, no kids (but we feel like the 4R is good for trips up to two if we had them) and we don't tow anything more than a 2500 lbs fishing boat, so in terms of space or power, our needs are nothing that the current or next 4runner won't be able to handle. We WANT a LC200 or 300 because we'll never grow out of it (it is the flagship), BUT we both have a hard time justifying the 35-45K price jump to the LC for essentially some more interior space and creature comforts (which we don't need) and a larger engine that gets shittier gas mileage(again that we don't need).

I have tried in the past to rationalize the decision between the two in terms of life expectancy, but alas I think the 4Runner has shown it can last just as long with regular maintenance so that arguement doesn't really hold water per say.

One thing we do 100% know is that we want it to Green.

For the love of God, can Toyota please release the next 4Runner or Land Cruiser in some form of Green, Amazon Green Metallic (AGM) would be nice or make a new color like Jungle Green Pearl or something.. we really don't care so long as it's a med to dark green color (not light green)


If Toyota offered the next gen 4Runner Trail (or equivalent named model/trim package) in Green with Crawl control, I'd walk in to the dealer showroom and scream "Please take my money now!"

 

[05Rrunner]

Common sense tells me The 6th gen will come out as 2017 model next year at this time . It will have the new V6 3.5 and the new six speed automatic. The smog pump will be gone, it will have a redesign with LED headlights , blind spot monitoring and all the electronic goodies we've come to expect including pushbutton start. The trail version will have a redesigned rear axle with internal locker and retain its hood scoop. It will come with a 3.90 axle ratio and be available in all the same basic colors with the exception of the metallic black being replaced by standard black. The heavy mechanical KDSS system is on the table for change at some point. It will retain the solid rear axle and roll down rear window. Ordering to begin 06/2016 deliveries to begin September.

 

[Jetboy]

JMHO, but the 4Runner won't see a redesign until model year 2018. Mid cycle was 2014, and 8 year model run is pretty normal for a more niche vehicle. Sales are booming unexpectantly, so no need to pull the redesign ahead. I think the 1GR won't outlive the 5th gen when all is said and done. We're looking at a consolidation of all of the V6s to basically one displacement that is tuned as needed (IS250 2.5L V6 getting replaced with a 3.5L at a relaxed tune, for example). The 4Runner will probably get the same Tacoma powertrain with weight reduction for the 6th gen.

I don't think we're seeing much consolidation. The IS went from 2 different GR series v6 engines to 3 engine options mid-product cycle. There is now a 2.0L turbo, a 3.5L low power v6 (WTF is the purpose of this engine???) and a 3.5L V6. $3k for different software that was already written?? The foreign Tacoma equivalent is all new for 2016MY and has a 4.0L v6, not a 3.5. It seems to me as though Toyota is expanding engine offerings rather than shrinking them. The 4.0L will carry on in production for the foreseeable future.

I would personally like to see a turbo v6 but I'm not optimistic. I suspect the 2.0L turbo will be a possible small engine in the '17 Tacoma. It should make it into the highlander and Rav 4 in the next cycle as well.

Edit - you're right about the is300. I'm surprised they did that. I believe that means IS300 + IS350 ECU = cheaper IS350? We had an IS250 AWD from 07-14. Excellent awd sedan. Not very sporty though. My wife loved it. She wants to trade the RX350 for one again soon. If they made an IS200T awd I'd probably already have one. The IS350 awd are up into the low-mid $50k range now - and IMO just aren't a good value at that price.

 

[Quentin]

I don't think we're seeing much consolidation. The IS went from 2 different GR series v6 engines to 3 engine options mid-product cycle. There is now a 2.0L turbo, a 3.5L low power v6 (WTF is the purpose of this engine???) and a 3.5L V6. $3k for different software that was already written?? The foreign Tacoma equivalent is all new for 2016MY and has a 4.0L v6, not a 3.5. It seems to me as though Toyota is expanding engine offerings rather than shrinking them. The 4.0L will carry on in production for the foreseeable future.

I would personally like to see a turbo v6 but I'm not optimistic. I suspect the 2.0L turbo will be a possible small engine in the '17 Tacoma. It should make it into the highlander and Rav 4 in the next cycle as well.

Edit - you're right about the is300. I'm surprised they did that. I believe that means IS300 + IS350 ECU = cheaper IS350? We had an IS250 AWD from 07-14. Excellent awd sedan. Not very sporty though. My wife loved it. She wants to trade the RX350 for one again soon. If they made an IS200T awd I'd probably already have one. The IS350 awd are up into the low-mid $50k range now - and IMO just aren't a good value at that price.

My only guess is that it can use regular gasoline and they needed a stop gap until the 2GR-FKS is ready at all the plants. The 2.0T apparently doesn't mate up to the AWD at this point or they think the drive characteristics are poor for it (versus the detuned 2GR-FSE). There is some method behind the madness.

With the 2GR-FKS having integrated exhaust manifolds, I'd think that a turbo would be pretty easy to add. Give it a model year or two.

 

[off-road runner]

My wife and I keep discussing our next Toyota


One thing we do 100% know is that we want it to Green.

For the love of God, can Toyota please release the next 4Runner or Land Cruiser in some form of Green, Amazon Green Metallic (AGM) would be nice or make a new color like Jungle Green Pearl or something.. we really don't care so long as it's a med to dark green color (not light green)


If Toyota offered the next gen 4Runner Trail (or equivalent named model/trim package) in Green with Crawl control, I'd walk in to the dealer showroom and scream "Please take my money now!"

If it's that important and you're willing to spend the coin... why not just have a shop paint it. Probably not much prep work on a super white w/out clear. Shop around probably get someone to do it on the cheap. Get the exact color you want and have an original looking truck. I'm surprised this isn't a more common mod in this community.