AC Comparison , Nissan....

[cjacob316]

I completely agree with that and this is exactly my point.

The interior and technology in a brand new $30-33k Hyundai Sonata/Tucson is as good as a brand new $45-50k Lexus IS.

If you want a good interior with Toyota (so Lexus) it's gonna be $10-15k more that the competition.

I would like to see a 4runner with as much technology features as a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee. Because you don't go offroading with a Lexus and if you want the Land Cruiser you pay $80k

Then the 4runner would be 60-80k. I think you're missing the point, those vehicles are cheaply made and can be "decked out" for the same price as a Toyota. You're buying spam thinking you're getting filet. They make great rental cars when you don't have to end up paying to repair/replace all the cheap crap when it goes out.

 

[Jetboy]

I think binoshnoop has a fair point. A brand new Yaris - Toyota's cheapest car - can be equipped better than a 4runner or Tacoma for under $20k. There's really no excuse for the lack of content that Toyota puts into them. If there was another worthy competitor we might see a little nudge toward upgrading. At some point Toyota's gotta step it up a little.

Is it too much to ask for an interior as nice as a Rav 4? Or a Highlander?

 

[borfoo3]

I think binoshnoop has a fair point. A brand new Yaris - Toyota's cheapest car - can be equipped better than a 4runner or Tacoma for under $20k. There's really no excuse for the lack of content that Toyota puts into them. If there was another worthy competitor we might see a little nudge toward upgrading. At some point Toyota's gotta step it up a little.

Is it too much to ask for an interior as nice as a Rav 4? Or a Highlander?

Blasphamy!! No 4runner should ever be as good as a unibody softie!!

 

[wfo9]

Knowing Toyota, They probably just limit the control knob on the fan speed to only turn it up to half of full output. They determined this would make it more reliable.:flipoff:

Seriously though, it feels like the knob is missing a few more clicks. Every single car I have ever owned blows more volume. The air is plenty cool in my 4R, it just does not move enough air. Same issue in the winter with the heat.

 

[Jetboy]

Knowing Toyota, They probably just limit the control knob on the fan speed to only turn it up to half of full output. They determined this would make it more reliable.:flipoff:

Seriously though, it feels like the knob is missing a few more clicks. Every single car I have ever owned blows more volume. The air is plenty cool in my 4R, it just does not move enough air. Same issue in the winter with the heat.

You make a good point. It'd be interesting to measure the voltage at the fan motor. I think it's accessible under the glove box if it's anything like my previous 4runners. I also wonder if a GX460 fan might not fit directly into the same housing as a plug and play upgrade. Looking at parts pics it looks like the GX460 fan has the same fan as the 4runner, but parts pics aren't always the right pics. I guess someone could order one of each and compare them?

EDIT: Same part number for aftermarket replacement blower motors for both GX460 and 4Runners. A/C compressors appear identical other than mounting. A/C condensers are different parts but nearly identical size. The evaporator cores are the same part number. - The HVAC systems appear nearly identical. So... maybe we just need a different control module? Or possibly just a wiring fix?

 

[philsey]

Ha ha, another 2 pgs of 1st world problems.

But, to the subject; my wife has had 2 new CRVs and a new Accord since my 4R was new. And I will say all of the Honda AC blows harder, blows colder, and gets cold sooner, than does my 4R.

The volume of the cabins has some bearing, sure, but on really hot days I am turning the Honda AC back way sooner than the Toyota.

 

[cf_coder]

I also live in Phoenix. When the T4R is in the shade it's not too bad. But as soon as you go to the supermarket or somewhere with no shade, it's literally an oven and takes forever to feel the A/C (compared to a 2014 Grand Cherokee, a 2010 lexus, and a 2007 hyundai santa fe at least).

Also I would've loved ventilated seats as an option (I'm fine paying extra) for the TEP. Too bad it comes only with the limited. We could really use that in AZ

PS: I'm 152 lbs

If you've lived in Arizona for any length of time, you should know that you always roll down your windows for the first minute or so to allow the oven baked air a chance to escape. Otherwise, your AC is on (typically on re-circ) and you're now trying to cool off 140 degree air vs. 106 degree air. It makes a big difference in how long it takes to cool down the interior.

_coder

 

[Koddo]

I guess my comparison is my dad's 2005 LJ Rubi Wrangler. You want an underpowered fan blower that blows nice 85 degree cold air at full chill....thats your ticket. He's maintained the system too....its just typical Chrysler crap. So he has really crappy air and you'll sweat good out in the mountains 4wheelin.

But then again that rig with its 4 inch lift and 35 inch tires destroys anything offroad...guess theres a trade off.

 

[Binoshnoop]

Then the 4runner would be 60-80k. I think you're missing the point, those vehicles are cheaply made and can be "decked out" for the same price as a Toyota. You're buying spam thinking you're getting filet. They make great rental cars when you don't have to end up paying to repair/replace all the cheap crap when it goes out.

That's why I said in my first post that Toyota uses its reliability to its advantage.

For me and most people here, we own a Toyota because we don't want to have mechanical issues. Not because their interior is nice and loaded with the last tech on the market. And Toyota KNOWS that. That's why they don't go into much effort to add better features in the T4R.

The day the T4R will have a real competitor with a nice interior and reliable then you'll see how Toyota will move their butt to satisfy us.
For example if the Grand Cherokee was as reliable as a T4R then Toyota would lose hell of a lot of their market to Jeep.

Also, I understand that certain people don't need/want all those new tech. Not a problem, they can have a different trim for that like SR5 and Limited so everybody is happy.
My brother got a brand new T4R LE but for a long time he couldn't decide between the T4R and a brand new Limited Grand Cherokee that costs $52k.
He went for the T4R because of its reliability (and I'm glad he did that) but I'm not going to lie, I like the diesel GC that does 28 MPG highway, its big touchscreen really easy to use (the best on the market IMHO) with garmin. Really cold A/C and ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, panoramic sunroof, BSPM, 7500 lbs towing capacity, adaptive cruise control, etc...

If the GC was as reliable as the T4R i would get it simply because there's a lot more tech that I like in it. And I don't mind pay $50k for it.

 

[cjacob316]

My '04 4Runnerand '05 Tacoma both blew harder, I definately noticed the difference and it concerned me at first, but it got just as cold in the cabin as every other vehicle I have owned. It's also the darkest interior I have ever had. I also notice that I feel cod air blasting on my right side, and feel a lot of heat radiating towards my left side from the window that I have not noticed in other vehicles. So it seems the AC is fighting a tremendous amount of heat is this car compared to others I have owned.

As for the rav4 or highlander. There is a $10k difference between the LE and Limited for the highlander. The vehicle has a cheaper base price than the 4runner, but you can expect a similar increase in overall price when adding all this into an already more expensive vehicle, placing a Luxury TE at $50k or higher.

 

[JeremyB]

Didn't want to bring this up as I thought it was just me.. Seems that Toyota A/C's have definitely decreased in performance lately.. Maybe its the envirocrapically friendly refrigerants used these days,

No, you can design a R-134a system to cool just as well as a R-12 system. It's not the refrigerant.

I guess I don't really notice a lack of volume, but rather a lack of cold. I've monitored the evap. temp and noticed while at idle and slow speeds, it won't get below 45 when outside temps are 90-ish. Once you get up to speed, the evap. will eventually drop to set temp (~35 deg). I haven't tried to rev the motor while parked to see if the temp drops.

 

[cjacob316]

That's why I said in my first post that Toyota uses its reliability to its advantage.

For me and most people here, we own a Toyota because we don't want to have mechanical issues. Not because their interior is nice and loaded with the last tech on the market. And Toyota KNOWS that. That's why they don't go into much effort to add better features in the T4R.

The day the T4R will have a real competitor with a nice interior and reliable then you'll see how Toyota will move their butt to satisfy us.
For example if the Grand Cherokee was as reliable as a T4R then Toyota would lose hell of a lot of their market to Jeep.

Also, I understand that certain people don't need/want all those new tech. Not a problem, they can have a different trim for that like SR5 and Limited so everybody is happy.
My brother got a brand new T4R LE but for a long time he couldn't decide between the T4R and a brand new Limited Grand Cherokee that costs $52k.
He went for the T4R because of its reliability (and I'm glad he did that) but I'm not going to lie, I like the diesel GC that does 28 MPG highway, its big touchscreen really easy to use (the best on the market IMHO) with garmin. Really cold A/C and ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, panoramic sunroof, BSPM, 7500 lbs towing capacity, adaptive cruise control, etc...

If the GC was as reliable as the T4R i would get it simply because there's a lot more tech that I like in it. And I don't mind pay $50k for it.

But would you pay the 60-70k it would cost if they used better parts to make it more reliable? I doubt it. If it were more reliable it wouldn't be a $50k vehicle anymore.

 

[Binoshnoop]

But would you pay the 60-70k it would cost if they used better parts to make it more reliable? I doubt it. If it were more reliable it wouldn't be a $50k vehicle anymore.

It's not about better parts.
In terms of parts Toyota doesn't pay more (probably a lot less actually) than parts found in a GC, Audi, BMW, etc...

There's much more than parts. There are engineers, profitability, management, and much more.

It's because people like you think that Toyota use "expensive parts" to make their car reliable that a Toyota is (relatively) expensive and the trade off for that is a bad interior.

Trust me, if Toyota were to add in the T4R better tech found in the interior of the GC (so nothing engine related) like heated steering wheel, better touch screen with nav, and so on, a T4R should NOT cost $30k more unless Toyota wants to make it this price.

If they added a "tech package" they would still make a big profit by increasing the price of a T4R LE by $5k.

I'm afraid we'll never see that though unless the T4R gets a real competitor

 

[1engineer]

Begin rant:
I can honestly say that there is nothing in my whole current life that I wish were different in respect to material things such as vehicles.
If I wanted my air conditioner to blow harder then I would go buy a vehicle that has that.
If I can't afford to replace it then I will live with it as I chose to buy this vehicle and it is nobody's fault but my own.
If I wanted a spare that matches bad enough then I would go buy that spare.
If I didn't like some aspect of a possession then I would either live with it, fix it or replace it.

How is going on a forum and whining about something you have no solution for except to see your words on the screen going to help? It's one thing to have a problem that you can't solve, coming here and searching for an answer, not finding it and asking for help. It is a whole different thing to come here "wishing" your 4Runner was like something that it is not and opening up a new round of "Well the Jeep has this... or that Nissan has that..."

I taught my young engineers as well as my children one thing: If you have to come here with a problem then you damn well better come here with a possible solution at the same time. Life's too short to whine.



:end rant and my opinion. Let the indignant, righteous, blustering responses begin.

 

[1engineer]

It's not about better parts.
In terms of parts Toyota doesn't pay more (probably a lot less actually) than parts found in a GC, Audi, BMW, etc...

There's much more than parts. There are engineers, profitability, management, and much more.

It's because people like you think that Toyota use "expensive parts" to make their car reliable that a Toyota is (relatively) expensive and the trade off for that is a bad interior.

Trust me, if Toyota were to add in the T4R better tech found in the interior of the GC (so nothing engine related) like heated steering wheel, better touch screen with nav, and so on, a T4R should NOT cost $30k more unless Toyota wants to make it this price.

If they added a "tech package" they would still make a big profit by increasing the price of a T4R LE by $5k.

I'm afraid we'll never see that though unless the T4R gets a real competitor

Dude, you have no clue what you are talking about. Really.

 

[Binoshnoop]

Dude, you have no clue what you are talking about. Really.

Prove me wrong... and I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying that Toyota parts are cheap. I said that the total of parts in a T4R costs less than the total parts in a GC.

Toyota invests more money in engineering and development than in parts compared to most car makers.

But if you think I'm wrong about that, tell me what's not true and correct me instead of just saying "you have no clue..."

I'm listening...

 

[cjacob316]

It's not about better parts.
In terms of parts Toyota doesn't pay more (probably a lot less actually) than parts found in a GC, Audi, BMW, etc...

There's much more than parts. There are engineers, profitability, management, and much more.

It's because people like you think that Toyota use "expensive parts" to make their car reliable that a Toyota is (relatively) expensive and the trade off for that is a bad interior.

Trust me, if Toyota were to add in the T4R better tech found in the interior of the GC (so nothing engine related) like heated steering wheel, better touch screen with nav, and so on, a T4R should NOT cost $30k more unless Toyota wants to make it this price.

If they added a "tech package" they would still make a big profit by increasing the price of a T4R LE by $5k.

I'm afraid we'll never see that though unless the T4R gets a real competitor

Things made in China are cheaper than things made in Japan. Even just electronics. Better engineers are more exensive. So yes, more money goes into building Toyotas than Jeeps. Don't try comparing european luxury brands, just don't. Jeep GC's have a $40k difference between their base package and highest end model. You better beleive that all those extra options can make a vehicle cost $30k more.

Also, I don't know how much of a difference this make if at all, but some basic items are cheaper in one country compared to another. It is possible that American companies can source materials like steal and leather cheaper than Toyota.

 

[Bevo]

:snacker:

 

[1engineer]

It's not about better parts.
In terms of parts Toyota doesn't pay more (probably a lot less actually) than parts found in a GC, Audi, BMW, etc...
You are making a half assed supposition. You have no clue what Toyota or anyone pays for their parts.
There's much more than parts. There are engineers, profitability, management, and much more.
Engineers are engineers. It's the business model that is different.

It's because people like you think that Toyota use "expensive parts" to make their car reliable that a Toyota is (relatively) expensive and the trade off for that is a bad interior.
You can have expensive parts fail and cheap parts last forever. What's your point.
Trust me, if Toyota were to add in the T4R better tech found in the interior of the GC (so nothing engine related) like heated steering wheel, better touch screen with nav, and so on, a T4R should NOT cost $30k more unless Toyota wants to make it this price.
Why would I trust you? You just joined and have eight posts. How about I trust the people who did the research and countless surveys to find out what customers actually want in their 4Runner?
If they added a "tech package" they would still make a big profit by increasing the price of a T4R LE by $5k.
Again you have no clue on what anything costs. Your use of the always ambiguous word "big" shows me that.
I'm afraid we'll never see that though unless the T4R gets a real competitor
A real competitor? There are several out there from the JGC to the Jeep Unlimited to the Range Rover to the Xterra. They are all the same and all different.

Prove me wrong... and I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying that Toyota parts are cheap. I said that the total of parts in a T4R costs less than the total parts in a GC.

Toyota invests more money in engineering and development than in parts compared to most car makers.

But if you think I'm wrong about that, tell me what's not true and correct me instead of just saying "you have no clue..."

I'm listening...

My answers are in bold.

 

[1engineer]

:snacker:

Shut up and eat your popcorn.