Amount wasted on gas vs going hybrid or EV?

[Taco04]

double post..

 

[1engineer]

So in the meantime let's burn coal? Apparently you know the consequences and are comfortable with them? Much better to live down wind from a coal power plant than a wound farm right?

Absolutely I know the consequences and am comfortable with them. Are you a physicist? What type? What is your specific field?

 

[Ron4RNevada]

In the next 20 - solar, wind, and natural gas will replace coal in the USA. And that results in electric car emissions being significantly cleaner than they would be today, and much cleaner than gasoline powered cars.

I probably won't be around to see this happen - But I think you are totally wrong.

 

[stamonkey]

I probably won't be around to see this happen - But I think you are totally wrong.

The two biggest factors are natural gas prices and government regulations coal production has dropped ~15% in the last 10 years or so, due somewhat to government regulations, but mostly due to the crash in natural gas prices.

Coal certainly still has its place right now, but with $/MWhr coming down for wind and solar with better storage options, the free market will decide.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So in the meantime let's burn coal? Apparently you know the consequences and are comfortable with them? Much better to live down wind from a coal power plant than a wound farm right?

I mentioned in other posts what I think should have been done. It should have been scaled up at a slower rate and potentially major ecological damaging effects better understood before throwing them everywhere like lampposts.

What's the point of switching to wind power 100% as it is right now (with it's inherent microclimate issue) if in ten, twenty, thirty years you're going to damage/alter the very ecology your trying to protect anyways? If we're just going to apply such haphazard "fixes" to the problem without understanding all the angles, we might as well just go with the radical terraforming ideas like seeing the skies and the oceans. No point in trying to BS it and say we have everything under control.

While in the mean time of such research, coal powered plants are becoming more efficient and cleaner, perhaps not as clean as the "green" technology; but green enough that it buys us time to get so called "green" technology right before we cause more problems later down the line. The typical American way of thinking is always short term and knee-jerk "throw a band-aid on this, do this NOW, forget about the consequences!" It's worked so well for us that we've only almost gone bankrupt, are in the process of a second civil rights movement, and a myriad of other serious issues that plague this country. (Sorta like how removing lead from solder has been causing numerous issues with Tin Whiskers for decades and the justification that it saves the environment by reducing the reliability of the very complicated electronics that keep our planes in the sky and our world running is utter BS.)

"Measure twice, cut once" is what we should be doing rather than, "just JB weld it."

In the next 20 - solar, wind, and natural gas will replace coal in the USA. And that results in electric car emissions being significantly cleaner than they would be today, and much cleaner than gasoline powered cars.

By significantly you mean they'll be in-line or barely positive compared to ICE? The major environmental and economical impact from Hybrids and EVs has less to do with electrical source energy and more to do with over all production costs/environmental impact. We're talking about the damage done to the environment just to make an EV, not the cents on the dollar it takes to power them. Hell it's pretty much the same damage done to make your iPhone that you toss next year for the newest shiniest model, or the same solar panel that has horrible efficiency. The difference is that we're just doing it even more now to facilitate production of more EVs. Granted manufacturing technology will eventually get better, but not without serious effort on the public's part. As long as the Chinese can just burn mountains of used electronics for their component materials, and Lithium is easier to just strip mine out of the Earth; not much will change.

 

[paddlenbike]

I drove my 100% electric LEAF to the gas station for the first time in 2 years for a fill-up.

 

[wfo9]

Whenever I see the windfarms all over west Texas... I somehow picture an intelligent life form coming down to a wasteland of earth in several thousand years looking at the remains of those old rusty things and thinking how ridiculously primitive we were.

Windpower at scale is ludicrous. Money being thrown away only to create eye sores and trash. All funded by government subsidies and green energy marketecture.

 

[MLA]

10 pages ago, OP asked a good question about fuel costs as part of the total cost of ownership. I think this thread turned into an energy policy debate around page 4....:focus:

There is no doubt that fuel costs add up over time, but I think there are a few things to keep in mind:

1. We tend to emphasize fuel costs more than any other product I can think of because we're reminded of how much gas costs on a daily basis. If you drove down the street and saw daily prices for other products that you consume weekly (i.e., milk, eggs, beer, etc.), you'd certainly notice the impact price changes have on your wallet.

2. Fuel costs are probably your 3rd or 4th largest cost associated with owning a vehicle (this depends on your state of residence and driving habits of course). Generally speaking, fuel costs are surpassed by depreciation, financing costs, and in some cases, insurance. Maintenance is also another major factor to take into account during the latter part of a vehicle's life

I'd encourage you to look up a total cost of ownership calculator to put your costs in perspective. If you're really set on trading in your 4runner for a more efficient car, there is a "Gas Guzzler Calculator."

Gas Mileage Savings Calculator: Car Cost vs. Fuel Savings

Personally, I love my 4runner. It's a truck and fuel costs are just part of doing business.

 

[Hellamatic]

I drove my 100% electric LEAF to the gas station for the first time in 2 years for a fill-up.

Totally superficial of me, I realize, but the main thing that would deter me from buying a Leaf is the lame name. It makes me envision dancing woodland elves playing pan flutes, or Mario in a raccoon costume. I'd need it to have a cooler name. Like "Nissan Kilowatt" or something.....I dunno....

 

[RedMagik]

Currently wrapping up a BS in Environmental Science with a focus in sustainability. My last term paper was on a promising new alternative fuel source that produces identical hydrocarbon chains of diesel and gas through genetically modified bacteria. Not to be confused with algae bloom harvests. This product by Joule Unlimited is backed by Audi and is set to hit markets in 2017. The best part is the existing infrastructure can be used, to include powerterians in all vehicles for private and public transportation. Here is a link to the video that explains the process:

Joule Unlimited featured on BBC Horizon | Our Videos

 

[Meyercord]

Limited range, ugly, and I generally don't care.

 

[paddlenbike]

Limited range, ugly, and I generally don't care.

True that. The car is so ugly I don't even park it in my own driveway. It is a great car to drive though and I look forward to Leaf 2.0 that will offer double the range and apparently conventional styling.

 

[sooperedd]

True that. The car is so ugly I don't even park it in my own driveway. It is a great car to drive though and I look forward to Leaf 2.0 that will offer double the range and apparently conventional styling.

If the Chevy Volt delivers the promised 200 mile range it will alleviate a lot of range anxiety for many people including myself.

My wife is the primary driver of our Prius and she has a long commute that is right at the edge of the LEAFs diminished range. ( 1 bar loss )

2012-2013 LEAFs can be found used with low miles REALLY reasonable.