Are you more Liberal or Conservative?
- Thread starter 004Gunner
- Start date
I'm new here, but the above are words of gold!!!! 9/11 Never forget and for me(YMMV).....never forgive
chiplee
New member
A representative republic, actually, and yes I do. Hence the part where I called it a "representative republic" in the text block you quoted. I guess I know exactly what part of my input caused you to stop reading.
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chiplee
New member
I agree that there are "also" democrats who blindly vote along party lines, but it isn't what holds up the party. In the republican party, blind party lines voting is exactly what holds up the party.
Interesting. Of what exactly is it that you suspect I'm ignorant and afraid? I don't think I said the other side was all wrong. I said they didn't know the facts, and I'll say now that they dont' think critically, as in the case of the "Mosque at ground zero" comment that was applauded in this thread. Even a middle school level of analysis would render that stance untenable.
As for the "basically saying I have no clue what's going on" comment, I'd happily debate any subject with you if you intend to take a conservative stance. No references, just you and me. I promise. ;^)
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brian2sun
Elite Member
:thumb3:
chiplee
New member
First of all, that part about Nazis is a strawman. Break the rules of debate all you want, but don't be surprised when thinking people stop taking you seriously.
Second, your comments and the fact that you were supported for them is just terrifying and awful. You guys just aren't thinking this through.
The attackers on 9/11 were "terrorists". No one is trying to put up a Terrorist memorial at ground zero. Building a terrorist memorial at ground zero would be comparable to putting a Nazi memorial at Auschwitz. Putting a mosque at ground zero would be comparable to building a Lutheran or Catholic (religion of most Nazis at the time) church at Aushwitz, or 2 blocks from Aushwitz as it were. Since that's where they want to build the mosque.
Obviously these are very different things. If you equate Islam with terrorism because of the fact that there are radical "Islamist" terrorists, then you have some explaining to do. Radical Catholic and Protestant terrorists have been blowing each other up for quite some time in Northern Ireland, and radical Christian terrorists bomb abortion clinics in our country, yet you don't equate Christianity with terrorism? Why? Don't bother. I know why.
The real question is who cares where a mosque is built? Who cares where a church is built? It is UNRELATED to 9/11 in every imaginable way.
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chiplee
New member
Boy that was a valuable addition to the discussion. What exactly is it that you don't like about the current administration? And what would you prefer? Presumably you would rather McCain Palin had won, so what is it that you like about Sarah Palin?
brian2sun
Elite Member
Chiplee,
The terrorists that performed the "terrifying and awful" act of 9/11 did it in the name of Islam. I'm aware that there are violent and non-violent people of all religions, but I think it's in horrible taste that they do that there. It happens to offend me.
How many people in the middle east do you think have a big grin on their face because they know that a mosque is being built there. If you don't think the Islamic Jihad considers that a success and the media exposure concerning it, than I honestly feel like I'm trying to argue that the world is round.
The terrorists that performed the "terrifying and awful" act of 9/11 did it in the name of Islam. I'm aware that there are violent and non-violent people of all religions, but I think it's in horrible taste that they do that there. It happens to offend me.
How many people in the middle east do you think have a big grin on their face because they know that a mosque is being built there. If you don't think the Islamic Jihad considers that a success and the media exposure concerning it, than I honestly feel like I'm trying to argue that the world is round.
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MichaelM
New member
Thanks! What don't I like? Ummm, I can't think of anything I do like except for how blatantly stupid they are making themselves and their supporters look. I never said I liked anything about Sarah Palin. Basically anybody in the country has more sense as Joe Biden though. I would rather have McCain-Palin but I'm not saying that would have been good either (DEFINITELY could not be worse). Our government sucks bottom line. We haven't had a really good president in years but what can you do about it? NOTHING. Don't get your panties in a wad over my comments.
chiplee
New member
Doesn't matter. The Christians who bomb abortion clinics do it because the bible tells them to defend the innocent. But that doesn't make you equate Christianity with terrorism. I'm just trying to help you see your biases.
So what? You're wrong to be offended by that. The existence of religion offends me to the core. Shall we abolish religion on that basis?
No idea. Don't care. Those people should be ignored. Look man, I seriously despise Islam, trust me. I think it has the highest propensity of any religion to cause its followers to be violent. I really do. But that just doesn't matter. If we're going to tolerate religion then we're stuck with Islam as one of the religions. There are millions of utterly happy and peaceful Muslims who are American citizens just like you and me. They are provided freedom of religion as citizens and there is simply NO JUSTIFICATION for denying them the right to build a Mosque in this country.
"The Islamic Jihad?" What is that? I know what a Jihad is, but I don't know what you mean by the Islamic Jihad. But anyway, they don't get to decide what we tolerate in our country. The real win for them is if we stop the Mosque from being built; proving that we distrust all Muslims, and perpetuating the fear and uncertainty they hoped to foster on 9/11.
MichaelM
New member
Those aren't Christians. Those are a few of the many many "Christians".
chiplee
New member
Ok, great, and the 9/11 terrorists aren't Muslims. They're a few of the many many "Muslims." Whatever that means. Whose point was it you were trying to make?
My point (for the thread) is simple and obvious to a religious "outsider" like myself. If you aren't going to equate Christianity with terrorism because of "the few" Christian terrorists, then you can't equate Islam with terrorism because of Islamic terrorists. Double standards don't win debates. Sorry. And arguments about numbers of Christian terrorists vs numbers of Muslim terrorists won't cut it either. By percentage there surely are more bad Muslims than there are bad Christians. I get it, but it doesn't matter. It's still a very small percentage of the total number of Muslims. You wouldn't go around denying Christians their rights because of a few bad Christians, so don't go around denying Muslims their rights because of a few bad Muslims. Plain and simple. What could be more obvious? The frustration is understandable. It's just misdirected.
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MichaelM
New member
Wow, you're ignorant. I should have known and not even wasted my time.
chiplee
New member
That's funny.
What you've done is called "Ad Hominem." I don't recommend it. It's when you resort to personal insults or attacks on your debate partner's character in the hope of discrediting him or her, and diverting attention from the fact that you are out of ammunition for the topic at hand and defeated. It's typically reserved for the flailing and desperate last breath of a child on a playground, and sounds something like "Oh yeah, well you're ugly and your momma' dresses you funny!" It's cute and all, but uh, we're adults. I think.
Unfortunately for you, the intelligent people reading this will instantly recogize your diversion for the marked departure from the intellectual field of strife that it is, and unless you redeem yourself, they will ignore you.
Fortunately for me, it's also considered a surrender, so I accept. Next?
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chiplee
New member
You're very welcome. Thank you for piping up. It's never fun going it alone in these discussions, but that is where I usually find myself. I'm getting used to it I guess.
brian2sun
Elite Member
Who are you to tell me what is wrong to get offended by? You obviously are detatched from 9/11 in a way that I am not. I lost someone dear to me in that attack and the fact that you support the building of this mosque on one hand, but despise religion to the core on the other shows the duality of your personality. It's easy to play devil's advocate. Easy until someone disrespects your loved one's gravesite.
There's a reason that you're usually alone in these conversations. You can sympathize with the victims or you can sympathize with the religion that inspires these less-than-human, archaic terrorits to perform violence against innocent people.
I'm glad to have done all the reading and research on Islam that I've done. I can see how a person can be fooled and blinded by political corectness without divulging into the details of Islam.
Thai
Elite Member
I did not care to read any of the above, but building the mosque so near 9/11 site is just plain stupid and insulting! I am a no-religion person...and, i don't give a rats ass about freedom anything BS that the proponent are yapping about...building the mosque so damn close is WRONG!
