ATF Exchange (using the cooling line)

[firebirdguy]

BS. There is no such thing.



BS. That is their marketing hype. They make those claims and never pay when something does happen. There isn't a fluid that will work for Ford, Dodge, and Toyota all at the same time with the same outcome. Yet, that is exactly what they claim. Which is contrary to common sense and an outright lie.



BS. I know your issue. You just want to feel good about what you've done. Keep believe it. Don't let me get in the way. However, Toyota is the one carrying the warranty cost. Toyota is the one with the reputation. Not Dodge. Not Ford.



Yeah. That's why you write in all lower case letters.... because you're so smart and you really KNOW so much. I don't believe you. I don't know of a single reputable Toyota mechanic that would recommend you not use WS fluid in a Toyota transmission. Not a single one.



Yeah. Toyota should start using Maxlife in their transmission tomorrow. Its SO.... good. That article is ridiculous. Toyota has been using WS since the early 2000s. Their transmission reputation is the best in the industry.

Do what you want to do but trying to say Maxlife is good for every transmission they claim it is good for is entirely ridiculous. I'll keep using WS in Toyotas. I have 2005 4-runner with 201,000 miles on WS. I'll wait for you to catch up.

Whoa! are you having a bad day?? you must be related to the late great captnsolo.. i will avoid the pissing match & just address each of your weirdly angry comments with facts...

what's "BS" is every thing you just wrote. you seriously need to do some research on ATF if you actually think maxlife is "bad" or isnt compatible with the fluids/trans they state on the bottle. got one single example of maxlife causing problems or damaging a transmission? just one.... we will wait.

then tell us all about how any other brand of "universal" ATF is "bad" or BS or marketing hype... its 2021, oil companies have designed fluids to meet & exceed 15-20+ year old fluids like WS or T-IV or dex 3 etc etc. & by the way, no 4th gen 4runner is still under warranty so toyota isnt carrying any warranty on any of these transmissions, in my posts i've stated to use it after the warranty is up.

"i just want to feel good about what ive done???" LOL! i guess me & 10's or 100's of thousands of other people that have used maxlife & amsoil & many other brands of multi purpose fluids for 15+ years just want to feel good about what they've done too huh? you better go find all the members on here & tacoma forums & many other vehicle forums & tell them all how they are going to damage their transmission using maxlife... better yet, call valvoline & amsoil & tell them they are lying about their trans fluid specs. :lmao:

i know of many reputable ASE certified mechanics that work on toyota & all other makes, i am friends with factory gm & ford trained life long mechanics & engine & trans rebuilders that use & recommend it for many different makes... but because YOU dont know of a toyota mechanic that uses it then thats the end all be all of all mechanics??? c'mon man!

you also have no clue what 4runner or other toyotas & other vehicles i own or service or how many miles they have, & there are countless members on here & tons of others out there using maxlife with zero issues with as many or more miles than your 4runner... i'd say i will wait for you to catch up but you are clearly so far behind with your "logic" that i'd be old & grey before that would happen!

by the way, i type in lower case because im usually texting from my phone or a tablet with limited time... i didnt realize this was a college paper you were grading mr professor! is this your first day on the internet??

& FYI: theres a better way to state your opinion than your derogatory comments claiming "BS" about things you clearly have no clue about or crying about how someone types on a internet forum... that kind of contentious attitude wont get you too far on here. everything i posted is a FACT, yet you dont have one single shred of proof to back up your ridiculous claims about maxlife.

have a nice day

 

[sundance21]

what's "BS" is every thing you just wrote. you seriously need to do some research on ATF if you actually think maxlife is "bad" or isnt compatible with the fluids/trans they state on the bottle. got one single example of maxlife causing problems or damaging a transmission? just one.... we will wait.

I say BS when there is BS. I happen to believe that type of language is a good form of communication. I don't really care if you approve it or not.

Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife | Bob Is The Oil Guy

There are plenty more. Just LOOK. I see that you haven't LOOKED for anything contrary to what you believe. I try to look at both sides of most anything.

Like I said. I have over 201,000 miles on a 2005 Highlander only running WS fluid. What do you think I'm going to put back in it? Maxlife?

Yeah. BS. I'll stay with WS.

 

[firebirdguy]

you might want to actually READ through that link you posted, 99% of people replying said its not the ATF that caused the issue. you have yet to prove one single thing showing maxlife or any other brand is bad in any way or that its not 100% compatible & acceptable to use for toyota WS trans. search this forum for all the positive reviews of using maxlife in these toyotas, then do a search for reviews in general of maxlife or amsoil etc, you will find about 50-100 positive for every one negative... & that one will be questionable at best if it was fluid related. see things from both sides, right?

almost everyone on that thread says it was either because he didnt change the original fluid at the recommended interval & the trans was probably dirty &/or wearing the clutches & the old fluid was what was keeping it from slipping, which is a very common thing on many GM & other makes at high miles & no/poor maint. that in combination with a full change of new synthetic fluid may have cleaned it to aggressively & dislodged debris.

& the other thing mentioned quite a few times is he did the job himself, using a new filter is very easy to install it wrong or forgot the O-ring or the filter was defective, any of those will let it suck air & damage a trans if not fixed right away. & he mentioned "metal shavings", these toyota trans are usually very clean inside with a lot more than his 75k miles, most dont even change the metal filter screen... something was wearing if there were metal shavings at 75k miles.

read your own link or google it if you have to & understand there is a lot more involved with how & why a trans can fail... one guys experience from 2013 with zero proof it was maxlife that caused the failure is worthless. i think your BS meter is broke or it's you setting it off... :toilet:

"like i said"... you have no clue what vehicles i own or service. but since you keep talking about your highlander, on a 4runner forum, my sister has a 02 highlander with 240k, guess what fluid its running on for over 100k? & i own an 08 4runner with 150k did a complete maxlife exchange almost 2 years ago & it works perfect & shifts smoother than the WS that was in there. i could go on but its not worth it. how about just start a thread on here asking members that use maxlife what they think of it & how its working for them... then get ready with your BS comments.

& heres a link to a thread asking about maxlife & they all say maxlife is great fluid... but whats funny is, they start talking about the guy in your link & everyone is almost laughing & saying the ATF didnt cause his trans failure. any of these multi vehicles fluids will work for what they are rated for in a healthy trans. period. you can use & think what you want, i could not care less...

Any Horror Multi-Vehicle ATF Stories? | Bob Is The Oil Guy

Keep drinkin the kool-aid.......

 

[Hi-desertT4R]

I say BS when there is BS. I happen to believe that type of language is a good form of communication. I don't really care if you approve it or not.

Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife | Bob Is The Oil Guy

There are plenty more. Just LOOK. I see that you haven't LOOKED for anything contrary to what you believe. I try to look at both sides of most anything.

Like I said. I have over 201,000 miles on a 2005 Highlander only running WS fluid. What do you think I'm going to put back in it? Maxlife?

Yeah. BS. I'll stay with WS.

Seems just as likely that it was the Wix filter he installed, possibly incorrectly, as it was the fluid. Just sayin’

 

[sundance21]

Seems just as likely that it was the Wix filter he installed, possibly incorrectly, as it was the fluid. Just sayin’

I figured that would be someone's answer. He asked for just one. I gave him just one. There are plenty more. Just go look for them.

There is no reason to put a multi standard fluid in a Toyota transmission. It may not hurt. I definitely will not help. Why mess with something that works?

If you don't believe WS fluid is good enough, then change it more often. Its like everyone going crazy over the 2019 thru 2021 Tundra transmission's lack of a shared cooler. Till one blows up.... there really no reason to claim its a disaster. Proof is in the use. My 4 runner has over 200,000 miles on WS. I don't see anyone claiming they've done the same with Maxlife in a Toyota transmission. I'll leave you with this....

 

[sundance21]

you might want to actually READ through that link you posted, 99% of people replying said its not the ATF that caused the issue. ]

That isn't true in any sense of the replies. You're daydreaming.

You asked for one and I gave you one example. There are plenty MORE examples of where Maxlife caused issues. I bet that if I tried to give every case where someone publicly bashed Maxlife.... It wouldn't matter you'd say it was some other reason. You've made up your mind that silly company making multi standard ATF fluid is superior to a company purposely designing their transmission from the ground up.

By the way, who OEMs Maxlife in their transmission? Want to name anyone?

Maxlife makes ridiculous claims. Claims that any reputable Toyota mechanic would dispute. You want to run around naming "ASE" mechanics....

You do know that ASE hasn't designed nor built anything don't you? What a joke....

 

[firebirdguy]

did you even read that thread? if so you would see almost 9 out of 10 people say it wasnt the maxlife that caused the failure, many of them are long time credible members on that forum, ive been a member there for over 10 years. i asked for one example with PROOF it was maxlife that caused the failure, you have yet to provide even one shred of PROOF... just a link you had to google of some guy back in 2013 that THINKS it was the fluids fault. i've searched for negative reviews of maxlife or amsoil ATF & you need to really dig deep to find one & even then there is no proof, just some random guys opinion of what they think caused their problems, yet there are millions of happy maxlife/amsoil ATF users with zero issues. wonder why that is?

have you ever even changed fluid in a trans? your comments indicate you dont have a clue about anything mechanical or automotive fluids in general. you should probably read the owners manual maintenance schedule toyota recommends for your 4runner? or is it a highlander? WS trans fluid should be changed at 100k miles or 60k miles if towed or abused in any way. going double that & bragging about it is comical. WS is not "lifetime" fluid!

ASE doesnt design anything?? what? i never said anything like that... ASE certified mechanics know ALL makes of vehicles & work on all cars/engines/transmissions. the guys i know build $10-$30k engines, some with 1000+hp & work on all makes of cars. i was rebuilding engines before i was old enough to drive & have been working on my own vehicles & restoring older cars for 25+ years. but hey, what do i know & what do lifetime mechanics know compared to you who needs to google for a handful of questionable bad comments on maxlife! LOL!

ive wasted enough time on this, do what you want mr mechanic/professor/ATF expert... but before coming on here telling everyone maxlife or amsoil etc is bad, or they are lying, you really need to do some research & educate yourself, because what you've stated so far is nothing more than a delusional opinion & total nonsense.

Keep drinkin the kool-aid.......

 

[Bluesky 07]

What anyone uses in their truck is obviously their personal choice. I choose to stick with WS because I have a hard time believing anybody can make a one-size-fits-all AT fluid. Maybe I'm wrong, but the bottom line is that I know WS works. And FWIW, a Weber State automotive professor who seems to know a thing or to about transmissions and fluids speaks specifically about MaxLife here and his opinion is relevant to this discussion.

To another anti-WS point raised here, that it is old technology, this guy says earlier in the same video that Toyota simply doesn't share proprietary "evolutionary" information like some other companies do, and that in his opinion, a current bottle of WS is different and better than one from when it was initially released.

So do your research, make your own choice, and I wish you well regardless of which fluid you prefer.

 

[delucat2]

230,000 and i wouldn't touch this tranny

my fluid still looks great, so unless the fluid looks or smells bad, i'd leave this tranny alone

 

[delucat2]

I use maxlife in gen 7 accord honda boxes with zero issues. the v6 models really wear the clutch plates and dirty up the fluid fast, so i'm not unsing genuine fluid. It is an aisin box too. So use or don't use Valvoline, its your money.

 

[firebirdguy]

What anyone uses in their truck is obviously their personal choice. I choose to stick with WS because I have a hard time believing anybody can make a one-size-fits-all AT fluid. Maybe I'm wrong, but the bottom line is that I know WS works. And FWIW, a Weber State automotive professor who seems to know a thing or to about transmissions and fluids speaks specifically about MaxLife here and his opinion is relevant to this discussion.

To another anti-WS point raised here, that it is old technology, this guy says earlier in the same video that Toyota simply doesn't share proprietary "evolutionary" information like some other companies do, and that in his opinion, a current bottle of WS is different and better than one from when it was initially released.

So do your research, make your own choice, and I wish you well regardless of which fluid you prefer.

thats a rational & very logical statement, thanks. ive watched that vid before & while i dont discredit his opinions, they are still just that, his opinion. plenty of other credible people out there that have positive opinions of maxlife & lots of tests have been done on it proving its a quality fluid..

fact is, maxlife & amsoil & any other reputable brand of multi vehicle ATF is perfectly fine to use in toyota transmissions or any others they state on the bottle. toyota WS is not made by toyota, its made by another major automotive fluid company, think i read it was exxon/mobil somewhere but i could be wrong on the company.

valvoline & amsoil etc are huge companies with engineers that develop & test their fluids on all the makes they state it works for. keep in mind this is just hydraulic fluid with noting special in it. there are analysis done on Ws & maxlife/amsoil & none of them are anything unique, just hyd fluid that meets viscosity & additive requirements to function in the transmissions they are intended for. & yes, one fluid engineered for the purposes can meet the requirements of more than one trans.

bottom line is there are millions of people & mechanics out there that have been using maxlife/amsoil MV ATF in all kinds of vehicles for almost 2 decades with excellent results, aside from a handful of questionable negatives on the interweb. so take those numbers into account before you think maxlife isnt a quality fluid. & by the way, its full synthetic vs conventional WS, if WS was synthetic you can bet toyota would advertise it as such & charge for it accordingly. & we all know, well most of us... that a synthetic fluid or oil is superior in almost every way to conventional.

im just stating factual numbers on this, yes there will always be a small number of negative reviews on any product or fluid & those that dont understand mechanical principles & just jump to conclusions blaming the fluid... kinda like the guy that blamed his leaks on synthetic oil even though the engine leaks on conventional oil too, LOL! but my personal experience with maxlife & every member ive read on here thats used it & other forums are all 99.9% positive.

my apologies for dragging these ATF & oil posts out lately, but the misinfo & myths on oil & ATF really get old after awhile... i will try my best in the future to refrain from getting wrapped up in these types of threads when it falls on so many deaf ears. use whatever oil or ATF you want, nothing wrong with sticking with WS, what matters most is that you change it & all other fluids according to toyotas recommended intervals.

carry on. eace:

 

[Bluesky 07]

What's missing for me is knowing the factor(s) that make one transmission fluid different from another. IIRC, there are explicit warnings on some vehicles not to use such-and-such a fluid that meets a different spec. Why is that? Without knowing, there's no way to make an evidence-based choice as to whether a one-type-fits-all formula makes sense.

IMO it's different for transmission fluid than for oil, where I totally agree that any oil of the proper weight that meets the manufacturer's specs is fine, whether it's the cheapest SuperTech dino or the most expensive synthetic. The wear and/or performance differences are likely so tiny, even over the life of the vehicle, as to be insignificant so it really doesn't matter what you put in it. The people at Blackstone Labs bear that out and they should know. From their FAQ page:

==
What’s the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don’t make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.
==

Now with all that said, I still don't use the cheapest oil, so I don't really heed my own advice.

 

[firebirdguy]

What's missing for me is knowing the factor(s) that make one transmission fluid different from another. IIRC, there are explicit warnings on some vehicles not to use such-and-such a fluid that meets a different spec. Why is that? Without knowing, there's no way to make an evidence-based choice as to whether a one-type-fits-all formula makes sense.

IMO it's different for transmission fluid than for oil, where I totally agree that any oil of the proper weight that meets the manufacturer's specs is fine, whether it's the cheapest SuperTech dino or the most expensive synthetic. The wear and/or performance differences are likely so tiny, even over the life of the vehicle, as to be insignificant so it really doesn't matter what you put in it. The people at Blackstone Labs bear that out and they should know. From their FAQ page:

==
What’s the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don’t make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.
==

Now with all that said, I still don't use the cheapest oil, so I don't really heed my own advice.

the way i see it is that toyotas & other makers warning to only use their branded specific fluid was when these MV ATFs didnt exist or were very new & when vehicles were still under warranty. the warnings were to not use a fluid that isnt compatible or doesnt meet their specs, things like using T-IV or dex3 etc in a sealed WS trans... not about using a fluid that actually meets or exceeds the specs.

these atf's are designed from scratch by multi million or billion dollar companies with real scientists & engineers to be rated for multiple other fluids. they cover a range of fluids but not all, there are lots of cars maxlife wont work in.

for me, using it in my 08 4runner & 3 different muscle cars i own with zero issues, some for 10+ years is enough proof. i also used it for over 10 years in my previous jeep cherokee i owned for 15+ years as a daily driver with 200k+ miles, if there was a problem using it, im pretty sure it would have shown up by now for me & the 99% of millions of happy users out there that use it without issue.

as for supertech oil (& ATF), i have used it quite a bit in the past on my jeep & other cars i service with no issues, but i like to get a better name brand for the 4runner & my other cars since it doesn't cost much more. blackstone & other labs have tested super tech numerous times & the results prove its a very good oil, in some ways as good or better than other top rated name brands, the price is cheap but its a very decent oil.

have you seen this test? might not be proper controlled scientific testing, but it shows real world results for the few tests he does. its -8f for a high temp & -20 to -25 low where i live right now, i like the cold pour test & the bearing wear test is cool too, cant deny the results... super tech is darn near as good as redline & better than many of the other name brands he tests in other vids. this guy does lots of other cool tests too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwqt5vI0o1A

 

[Hi-desertT4R]

I flushed my transmission this weekend using this write-up as a guide. Thanks 46runner for putting this here. Only thing I found different from how it’s explained was during the temperature check steps I had to jumper the ODB ports after the engine was started to get the ATF temp light to flash for two seconds. Many other lights would flash with the ODB jumped before starting the engine. All other steps were perfectly in order.

 

[SurferUK]

Steps for ATF Temperature Check:

1. Car should be on level ground
2. On the ODB-II connector, use a 16-20 gauge (16, 18, or 20 gauge will work) jumper wire to connect terminals between CG (4) and TC (13)
[/FONT]

Hey mate,

Do you know if the connections are the same for JOBD (Jap Import)?

As far as I can tell, it is just the data protocol that is different.

I already tried clicking thanks, not sure if it worked, so THANKS for a great write up. First thing I want to do is a full fluid change of everything.

 

[sundance21]

This is a great video from an expert. You want to start about 28 minutes in and listen. Around the 30 minute mark you'll start hearing why a type 4 oil is not compatible with a type 3 fluid being used in ATF WS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t73jM6mT8sU&t=387s

I remembered this video from the last time I had this discussion over WS fluid in Tundras.

I know people are going to say this guy is crazy but those people will not have a facts based argument against what he's saying because he is telling the truth.

Also. I would to point out that the method used in the OP causes the transmission to run 2 quarts low as you're pumping out the fluid. Which to me, is NOT very smart at all. It is much better to do a drain pan and refill I mentioned. I just did it on my 2005 4runner V8 and it took 4 times at 3 quarts each. My temp check of fluid was perfect. I didn't have to add or remove anything. Hope this helps someone trying to decide what to do. Thanks

 

[jlaw904]

Even at pretty much double the cost, I'll probably stick with the Toyota fluid. For a full exchange it's an extra what? Like 50 bucks? Considering how rarely you change it, meh. Not a big deal. I also feel like the Valvoline is fine but later on down the road if anything goes wrong (whether related or unrelated), I don't want to have to question my decisions lol.

 

[Tironeous]

Even at pretty much double the cost, I'll probably stick with the Toyota fluid. For a full exchange it's an extra what? Like 50 bucks? Considering how rarely you change it, meh. Not a big deal. I also feel like the Valvoline is fine but later on down the road if anything goes wrong (whether related or unrelated), I don't want to have to question my decisions lol.

This was my thinking too. The job was still pretty cheap and much cheaper than going to the dealer or anywhere else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drcoffee]

Its interesting the conversations about tranny fluid replacement causing transmission failure. Its old school to add ATF to motor oil to clean the engine. Or mix ATF with acetone to make a penetrating fluid. The reason is ATF is a detergent. When you swap out old dirty ATF with new ATF all the crud attached to internal parts will suddenly be freed up to float in the new fluid and block passages, ruin valves, etc. this is what I theorize is the ruin of the transmission. Not that the old fluid has better friction than the new fluid.

What I do when I get a used vehicle is replace all the ATF and most importantly add a MAGNEFINE 3/8” filter and ATF cooler. The filter will catch any old crud released by the new ATF and prevent it from causing future damage. Check out what these filters caught on my other vehicles.

The magnefine filter has a strong magnet to catch ferrous material, then filters the fluid with a paper filter to catch non-ferrous material. I leave it in 50,000 miles and it costs just $25. Well worth the money and effort to install. I have never had a tranny failure. My last car was a Lexus IS300 2001 I bought with 96,000 miles. I just sold it with 286,000 miles and the trans shifted like new still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6pFct7Zrgs&feature=youtu.be

On my 07 4runner I just replaced all the ATF with 10 Qts Amsoil synthetic. And added a cooler and filter. Runs great at 223,000 miles, shifts like new, better than when I bought last summer.

The filter is the key IMHO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6QeXRMp53Y&feature=youtu.be

 

[SurferUK]

add a MAGNEFINE 3/8” filter

I do my own basic work on my cars, but this will be my first auto. (Not as common over here)

Where in the fluid 'circuit' would this be added and is it as simple as slipping a pipe off and adding this filter?

Cheers