Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen
- Thread starter peter78
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Jetboy
New member
This is a cross post from another forum (my own post).
I'd choose softex/nuLuxe over leather without hesitation if they were both the same price. It's more durable, more comfortable, easier to clean, zero maintenance. It really should be the premium material. We bought our RX350 with leather and 4Runner with softex on the same day. After a decade the softex looks new. You could legitimately put it back in a new showroom model and you couldn't tell it had been used for a decade. The leather - it looks like 10 year old leather. No rips, tears, or major damage, but it's clearly well worn. And the life of the 4Runner has been far more harsh with camping, dogs, kids, hauling wood and building materials. I hope that's the standard fabric in the new Land Cruiser.
Softex at 205k miles (picture is not my personal 4runner, but one for sale with 205k miles) - softex is just better IMO:
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Jetboy
New member
Disco/Defender puts the battery in the boot about half above and half below the original floorboard location. But - the Defender doesn't have a spare tire underneath to worry about. It's hung on the rear door because the design doesn't have adequate space underneath behind the rear suspension to fit a full size spare. The Discovery doesn't have a full size spare. It uses a doughnut underneath the rear. The full size spare is going to be a pretty universal constraint on any Toyota BOF 4x4. I doubt you'll see them use a doughnut. And since they went for a hatch instead of a side opening door - I don't think hanging it on the rear door works either.
I think the spare on the side opening door is the better option to make room for the hybrid battery. I'd prefer that over losing all the cargo space. But I don't think that's in the cards for the GX. Maybe the LC? but kinda doubtful to me.
Thank you for this. I was hoping the Nuluxe would be a decent compromise for the leather since I'm leaning toward the Premium + model but you've convinced me it is the preferred choice. My '05 Suburban has 180,000 miles and the leather is fairly worn and cracking a bit even though it is still comfortable.
:cheers:
DC
I'm leaning this same way too since I'm now comfortable choosing Nuluxe over leather. Hopefully, the non-Levinson sound system will be decent but I'd rather have the better option.
May also have to investigate a tire/wheel swap so I can get the 18s. I prefer no sunroof and especially don't want a panoramic sunroof. After looking at that batch of photos I linked, I found one of a roof with no sunroof and got excited but, after further review, apparently those are not going to be offered in the U.S.
DC
Jetboy
New member
No problem. It's just my opinion though. I think it's still worth going and comparing in person yourself. The softex doesn't feel the same as leather. I love old worn leather couches - there's a certain warmth to it that softex doesn't have. So, even though I'd prefer softex/nuluxe - maybe your taste is different. Even if it's not the same model, you should be able to find comparable vehicles at a lexus dealer with both materials and get a feel for what you really want. Edit: one additional suggestion from my experience with a few recent Toyota and Lexus models, make sure you sit in the passenger seat as well. In my 4Runner I found the driver's seat very comfortable, but I didn't love the passenger front seat as much. It may be just due to wear of spending most time in the driver's seat, but the passenger seat was always firmer and less comfortable to me. I find my Tundra to be the same way. My RX350 seats feel the same side to side. I expect the Lexus version would have more complete adjustability in the passenger seat and that is probably part of the difference. Not sure. But I would sit in both sides if you plan to use it as a long road trip vehicle with a passenger.
good luck.
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Good advice. I'll visit a dealer and see if there are any issues with either seat material choice. I may end up with the base Luxury model if I can find a way out of those 22" wheels. While I would likely prefer leather for the feel aspect of it, I haven't really liked the way the interior of my Suburban aged. I tend to keep vehicles a long time so that's a consideration. I'm very glad to know that Nuluxe is not my grandfather's cheap vinyl that cracks and wears in short order.
Also good info on the seats. One of the few things about my Suburban that I like better than my previous 2000 Tundra is the comfort of the seats.
Going to be an interesting few months of waiting. Very curious to see what the new LC and 4Runner brings to the table.
DC
Don't be so sure the Rover has crap reliability anymore. In all honesty, in 3+ years of ownership, my Disco Sport (which is the more complicated 48V mild hybrid HSE which was only sold in 2020) has only had gremlins, no major issues. I have inflatable side bolsters on my driver's seat which have been repaired once and broke almost immediately again, and a somewhat buggy user interface since it is pre-Pivi-pro. Battery failed prematurely at less than 2 years of age also; but not uncommon in Arizona and I have a piece of trim that needs replacing in the rear driver's side door seal.
No major issues up to this point. For what it's worth, my 2020 4Runner has had AC gremlims where the system will blow full hot and a piece rattling around in my trunk that came loose.
Ownership for Rover gets a hell of a lot scarier once you are out of warranty (the reason I'm thinking about dumping mine) due to insane parts and labor rates, but a lot of anecdotal evidence out there seems to indicate these vehicles are WAY more reliable than they used to be.
As crazy as it is, Tata has done wonders for JLR as a whole it would seem.
The Defender also picks up advantages in departure angle by having the spare on the rear door. The Discovery actually CAN be had with a full size spare tire, at least if you have 20" wheels. It's a $560 option and mounts it under the rear of the vehicle. You'd probably only generally find one on a custom order I imagine though as most vehicles brought into dealers' lots are not outfitted with the advanced offroad packages either. My bigger issue with the Discovery is that you can only outfit it with 31" tires from the factory which is pretty lame.
Agree with you that an LC with a spare mounted on a swing our rear door would be a great way to go, but will be surprised if Toyota does it.
Jetboy
New member
I'm not sure what Toyota plans if it's not going to have a side opening door for Australia. It's never not had one that I know of on the Prado because the spare is where the aux fuel tank goes. So where will they put the extra fuel to have enough range in the outback?
TexasFunRunner
New member
There is little wasted space in front of the engine, not shown in the photo:
1) The radiator cooling fan, the radiator, and the turbo intercooler.
2) The front end sheet metal structure holding everything together along with the necessary crumple zones.
3) Open air flow path for cooling.
If they put the batteries in the front, you then need to beef up the suspension and coil springs, creating a harsher ride. So with all that you can see why frunks are for EV's, not hybrids.
TexasFunRunner
New member
Great point about the Prado side opening door, I agree it seems this would have to stay, regardless of the GX. Likewise, it would seem the Land Cruiser will get a similar side opening door in order to have a better departure angle.
The current GX already has a side swinging door, though. Its the reason I didn't buy it when I got the 4R.
Jetboy
New member
There's a ton of room up there that's unused. The radiator and fan take up about 8-10 inches of space combined. Less if the mfg wants to make it compact. The radiator needs to be around 1.75" thick and an electric fan would be about 3 inches. A mechanical fan takes up around 5 inches if it's compact. The rest is just dead space for crumple zones, pedestrian crumple zone, and mostly aesthetics.
They've move the cab back about 4-6 inches on the new GX/LC models. Same on the Tundra - the hood length grew by around 6 inches, but the engine got shorter and set further back in the chassis. The vehicle dynamics make a lot of sense to balance the weight. But there's an easy alternative that almost every other manufacturer has adopted: move the front suspension forward.
The same is basically the case in the 4runner as well. There's a ton of unused space in the front clip of a 5th gen.
The battery shouldn't be that heavy. It's only 1.8kwh. NiMH batteries weigh about 100-150wh/kg. So, roughly 40lb of battery plus another 40lbs of packaging. That's in line with the F150 hybrid battery pack that has a total weight of 80lbs. A single group 24 battery weighs 45-50lbs. I don't think it's out of the question to put 80 lbs in front of the 4cyl engine. Especially because that's roughly the difference in weight between the 4cyl and v6 excluding all of the ancillary systems that are doubled on the v6.
My guess is the biggest reason there's no frunk is that it isn't common and it would block airflow and the engine bay requires a certain amount of air flow to remain cool. The hybrid battery up there would be a safety hazard. But they could find better use of the space I think. Mostly just via moving the front axle forward to extend the wheel base and everything else forward with it, then expanding the cabin volume.
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TexasFunRunner
New member
Just ran across one of the GX videos with a good cutaway view of how busy it is up front, look at the 13:30 time mark area.
2024 Lexus GX ? All You Need to Know / All-New Lexus GX 2024 - YouTube
fashorunner
New member
2025 Toyota Land Cruiser to Return to America with a New Mission
Wonder where this render falls on the close/not close spectrum
Wonder where this render falls on the close/not close spectrum
After thinking about this for awhile, my opinion of how this might play out has changed. It seems more likely to me that the new Land Cruiser will just be the Toyota version of the GX550 and that the new 4Runner will be the Bronco/Wrangler rival - maybe even returning to having a removable top.
I'm not the only one thinking this way. An article about the new Land Cruiser posted today on Car & Driver said this: "Speaking of 4Runner, the repositioning of the Land Cruiser could have interesting implications for that mid-size model. If the forthcoming Land Cruiser shrinks its footprint to become analogous to the GX, we could see the 4Runner morph into something better targeted at the Ford Bronco and Jeep Wrangler. The GX—and possibly the new Land Cruiser—will be offered with a third row of seats, and we wouldn't be surprised to see the next-generation 4Runner get a bit smaller too and drop its optional third row."
Here's a link to that article: 2025 Toyota Land Cruiser to Return to America with a New Mission
DC
Jetboy
New member
It looks like a typical radiator support, but they've added a bit more structure due to the problems with the LC200. If you don't follow that model - the front radiator support flexes too much and it's a common issue to have cracked radiators. I'm assuming the change is in response to that issue. There's still a lot of empty space up there.
There's probably 6 inches they could have truncated the front end without any effort to slim up the radiator to engine distance. But on the plus side - there appears to be more than enough room for a winch in there.
It's really in the 4cyl where it's just a huge open space compared to the v6. Which is interesting because an inline 4 cylinder should be longer at least as far as the base engine block is concerned. But it's set way back in the chassis. Any further back and they'll have to call it a mid engine.
