Biker Gang Incident

[BrianSD_42]

Would there really have been? From what I understand wasn't the wife on the phone with 911

Reports have since come out that over 200 calls were placed to 911 that morning by different citizens reporting dangerous gangs of bikers roaming the city and violating various laws.

Apparently not a single arrest was made that morning. Then this incident happened. Still no police showed up.

Well it turns out 5 officers were riding with the gangs. Interpret that however you want. Its still not good.

 

[RunninInGA]

I think they're just slow as turd to respond in general

The advocates supporting gun control in this country say the Police are there to intervene - that's one of the reasons we don't need firearms. I think many people would argue those same advocates are out of touch with reality with regards to Police presence and response times.

I live MUCH closer to a fire station than I do a police precinct and I still own several fire extinguishers and a couple water hoses - just in case. Would those same advocates suggest we control fire extinguishers in this country also I'm wondering?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Results of being able to stop and frisk any and all on the streets maybe?

Wasn't there a big deal about how the current crime reporting system (COMPSTAT I think its called) is highly inaccurate, particularly in NYC and some other countries where the police "fudge their numbers" including a serious incident with an ex-NYC that was commited as a "mental patient" because of his undercover investigation of his department's constant unethical practices?

I'm not saying all cops are unethical and curropt, but there's enough bad eggs and I've had enough sour dealings with law enforcement as a law abiding citizen (and the stories I hear from my Law Enforcement friends I do know) that it makes me stick to my Eastern European instincts to be wary of any "Authority figure." Again, no offense intended to honest, hard working police officers on the forum, but I'm sure they can tell us how a couple bad eggs make them look bad.

 

[alaskaman]

Anyone want to guess how it would have been different if the driver had been armed?

 

[Ol'Blue]

Anyone want to guess how it would have been different if the driver had been armed?

Well you will not have to worry about that because that is New York. Enough said on that one.

Blue

 

[dapslappy]

"lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Interestingly the FBI Crime Index indicates that crime per capita in NYC isn't even that bad.


http://www.nyc.gov/html/ops/downloads/pdf/mmr0912/nypd.pdf

:bolt:

common knowledge that many police departments down charge to create these statistical gains.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Well the FBI uses data from other major cities in their reports.

Is your theory that only NYC downplays the numbers but not San Diego, Chicago, Los Angeles, or any of the others.

My point is that even if NYC was doing that so would the others.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Well the FBI uses data from other major cities in their reports.

Is your theory that only NYC downplays the numbers but not San Diego, Chicago, Los Angeles, or any of the others.

My point is that even if NYC was doing that so would the others.

There's a varying level of false statistics, my understanding is NYC is one of the larger cities that "fudges their numbers" vs. maybe SD and such. Though to be honest from living in SD County, OceanSide isn't a very clean city...

 

[dapslappy]

Well the FBI uses data from other major cities in their reports.

Is your theory that only NYC downplays the numbers but not San Diego, Chicago, Los Angeles, or any of the others.

My point is that even if NYC was doing that so would the others.

No, I was generally saying the statistics officials always cite to prove we are all safer are unreliable. Being published by the FBI gives it a sheen of integrity but they are just collating the false data submitted by the various municipalities. My personal experience is that NYC cops are particularly jaded and dismissive. Here in Denver the police down charge and/or do not charge as a matter of course. I assume there is a basic crime statistic reduction policy driven by politics in all major urban areas.
All these crime stats are BS.

 

[02SE]

This reminds of the phrase: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

 

[dapslappy]

same

This reminds of the phrase: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

my first thought also

 

[RunninInGA]

Well the FBI uses data from other major cities in their reports.

Is your theory that only NYC downplays the numbers but not San Diego, Chicago, Los Angeles, or any of the others.

My point is that even if NYC was doing that so would the others.

I think we've already determined there are varying degrees of corruption in the various precincts across the country - why is it hard to believe there are varying degrees of statistical smudging going on as well?

 

[wnelax04sr5]

Anyone want to guess how it would have been different if the driver had been armed?

see part 1 of this thread

 

[BrianSD_42]

why is it hard to believe there are varying degrees of statistical smudging going on as well?

Even if the data in NY was off by 20% (and that would be an insane statistical deviation), because the FBI calculates it based on incidents per 100,000 persons not per city, it still would show NYC as a whole as a relatively safe city.

I feel like we are getting side tracked but I just like explaining things to people.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Even if the data in NY was off by 20% (and that would be an insane statistical deviation), because the FBI calculates it based on incidents per 100,000 persons not per city, it still would show NYC as a whole as a relatively safe city.

I feel like we are getting side tracked but I just like explaining things to people.

I think its a somewhat valid thing to point out.

Behind our dealership is a what is off and on a crack house, an apartment complex that seems to have a murder and/or major crime once or twice a year for the past 5 years. I also live less than a mile from my dealership and the cops shutdown one the nearby streets by a highschool for a raid at least once or twice a year. Not to mention that said high school has cops patrolling the street there every 20 minutes or so and yet when someone in our area does call 911, cops don't show up until an hour or two later? All the while today, a couple police officers have set up a ticket factory at a nearby street because its the end of the month (which they do every month) and easy pickings where they can rack up dozens of tickets in a couple days. So it seems my tax money pays for all that law enforcement training, equipment, and "safety" to prevent people going 5mph over the limit on a residential street instead of dealing with the crime in my city properly since nothing has changed in my neck of the woods in the past 5 years; yet I bet our statistics probably look "cleaner."

 

[dapslappy]

it is

Even if the data in NY was off by 20% (and that would be an insane statistical deviation), because the FBI calculates it based on incidents per 100,000 persons not per city, it still would show NYC as a whole as a relatively safe city.

I feel like we are getting side tracked but I just like explaining things to people.

it is a relatively safe city. there are so many people everywhere all the time one is rarely isolated and thus less easily culled from the heard. i'm speaking about the borough of manhattan, south of east 96th street. you're good up to 125th st on the west side.

 

[alaskaman]

Went back and read the gun comments. Good opinions and solid advice. Weapons should only be brought into the conversation when there is a threat to life and limb and it is coming. In this situation they were unable to break the glass and had the owner not opened the door (or left it unlocked) they would not have had access to him. Correct me if I am wrong.

In that case showing a weapon would be silly esp with a family in the vehicle. Who the F knows where the actual police were in this situation but he should have in the best case scenario waited it out. When the window breaks unfortunately he has a right to defend himself. He had options. Foward and Reverse. I know which one I would have used but that's just me. The car as a weapon is a safer bet than showing a handgun IMHO. Either way, I would have moved my vehicle to maintain a safe distance until the gendarmes arrived. Now picture his car, wife yelling at the guy and into the cell phone kid screaming and crying. Tough call.

I understand 11 people of the bike group have been arrested and charged with serious crimes = jail time. That sounds appropriate.

But my last observation repeated. WHERE WERE THE F'N COPS?

 

[KidVermicious]

WHERE WERE THE F'N COPS?

Breaking out his rear window with their helmets.

 

[Atlanta_man]

two in the gang were cops for goodness sakes !

 

[RunninInGA]

Went back and read the gun comments. Good opinions and solid advice. Weapons should only be brought into the conversation when there is a threat to life and limb and it is coming. In this situation they were unable to break the glass and had the owner not opened the door (or left it unlocked) they would not have had access to him. Correct me if I am wrong.

In that case showing a weapon would be silly esp with a family in the vehicle. Who the F knows where the actual police were in this situation but he should have in the best case scenario waited it out. When the window breaks unfortunately he has a right to defend himself. He had options. Foward and Reverse. I know which one I would have used but that's just me. The car as a weapon is a safer bet than showing a handgun IMHO. Either way, I would have moved my vehicle to maintain a safe distance until the gendarmes arrived. Now picture his car, wife yelling at the guy and into the cell phone kid screaming and crying. Tough call.

I understand 11 people of the bike group have been arrested and charged with serious crimes = jail time. That sounds appropriate.

But my last observation repeated. WHERE WERE THE F'N COPS?

Can't disagree with these thoughts about firearms and the vehicle.

Last I heard/saw, there were only 4 or 5 arrests total. I like your 11 number better - anyone know who all has been arrested now? Have any of those douche-bag cops been charged with anything yet?