The4kbeast
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The Beasts new shoes - INSTALLED!
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>BUILD THREAD< The4kbeast's 3rd-Gen 2000 T4R SR5 (Highlander Edition) 4x4 Build
- Thread starter The4kbeast
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The4kbeast
New member
Dhalsey's build assist, continued...
Figured I'd update my bros 02 4Runner build here since he has no plans to run a thread of his own. He's since disconnected his front and rear sway bar, but I felt like the OME 890 spring rate was far too high, and unmatched to the Icon front coils on a stock 4Runner with no plate rear bumper, cargo rack, or sliders. We talked it over and he was willing to take a chance on a set of brand spanking new 99 talls.
Left to right: OME 890 (about 1/2-1" longer unloaded), OEM 99 Talls
Measurements from hub center to metal fender line (no flares)
Stock 2002 SR5 rear:
Rear left: 21 1/4"
Rear right: 21 1/2"
OME 890:
Rear left: 23 3/4"
Rear right: 23 3/4"
New OEM 99 rears:
Rear left: 22 3/4"
Rear right: 22 3/4"
We expect some settling, but he has spring spacers on the way. The ride is cush, and has me considering 99's for my own rig. My rig probably weighs 150-200 lbs more due to sound deadening and some of the "premium" features that came on the SR5 Highlander Package.
Poser urban video test:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...1-BCCD-6FCB01D6CF25-5361-0000070C3CB2C5D2.mp4
At the end of the video, did you hear the distinct "clink?" We figured out that the disconnected rear sway bar came into contact with the shaft of the right rear shock. No picture, it was too painful to witness. The shock was also loose on the top mount, despite the fact that it Icon supplies a nylon lock nut.
So, instead of hooking up the rear sway bar again, we removed it entirely:
My $0.02 on this setup:
Bumps straight on in my local test loop use more travel than any other setup I've had on my rig. Only other system I've seen that uses as much is the ToyTec Lift my buddy has on his '97. This underlines the point that if you go with Icons, you NEED to upgrade your bump stops. Icon's philosophy is that your bump stops are part of your suspension, and to capitalize on their digressive valving, you need to have some type of progressive stop. Ideally, it would be nice to have a 3" lift with the spring rates of the OEM '99. I'm tempted to reach out to ToyTec to see if we can have Eibach bent up some longer 99 clones. They'd be great for those of us that aren't running armor all over and want a factory-like ride. And when I say factory-like, I mean it has that awesome rear spring rate that helps soak up bumps, but it would have more travel to actually use the dampening that we throw under these things. Just because you're lifting doesn't mean you have to have a choppy, crappy ride.
With no sway bars, there is a lot of body sway. Some people don't mind it, but it scares others. Personally, I like the mushed feel at turn in, but it doesn't inspire confidence. When you throw e wheel into a corner, the body roll is proportionate to how much you move the steering wheel.... so large steering angles CAN produce SME scary body roll. I'm still undecided on I'll run like this on the street; there are way too many knuckle heads out there I have to watch out for out there. If you're disconnecting the front, remove the rear completely. But do so at your own peril, as it can be dangerous on road.
I love how a heavy dampening setup feels with lighter spring rates. I've driven a TRD T/X Series Baja Tacoma, and the dampening feel was on a completely different level. That used a slightly lighter spring than stock and had some MAJOR work done by TRD's crew that helped Ivan Stewart's Baja efforts back in the day. It was awesome, but it was way stiffer than this 4Runner setup.
Both Bilstein and Icon use Digressive Valving, but Icon takes it to the next level. Slow small bump compliance is not great, but as you pick up speed, the suspension gets better and better. More later, breakfast calls...
Figured I'd update my bros 02 4Runner build here since he has no plans to run a thread of his own. He's since disconnected his front and rear sway bar, but I felt like the OME 890 spring rate was far too high, and unmatched to the Icon front coils on a stock 4Runner with no plate rear bumper, cargo rack, or sliders. We talked it over and he was willing to take a chance on a set of brand spanking new 99 talls.
Left to right: OME 890 (about 1/2-1" longer unloaded), OEM 99 Talls
Measurements from hub center to metal fender line (no flares)
Stock 2002 SR5 rear:
Rear left: 21 1/4"
Rear right: 21 1/2"
OME 890:
Rear left: 23 3/4"
Rear right: 23 3/4"
New OEM 99 rears:
Rear left: 22 3/4"
Rear right: 22 3/4"
We expect some settling, but he has spring spacers on the way. The ride is cush, and has me considering 99's for my own rig. My rig probably weighs 150-200 lbs more due to sound deadening and some of the "premium" features that came on the SR5 Highlander Package.
Poser urban video test:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...1-BCCD-6FCB01D6CF25-5361-0000070C3CB2C5D2.mp4
At the end of the video, did you hear the distinct "clink?" We figured out that the disconnected rear sway bar came into contact with the shaft of the right rear shock. No picture, it was too painful to witness. The shock was also loose on the top mount, despite the fact that it Icon supplies a nylon lock nut.
So, instead of hooking up the rear sway bar again, we removed it entirely:
My $0.02 on this setup:
Bumps straight on in my local test loop use more travel than any other setup I've had on my rig. Only other system I've seen that uses as much is the ToyTec Lift my buddy has on his '97. This underlines the point that if you go with Icons, you NEED to upgrade your bump stops. Icon's philosophy is that your bump stops are part of your suspension, and to capitalize on their digressive valving, you need to have some type of progressive stop. Ideally, it would be nice to have a 3" lift with the spring rates of the OEM '99. I'm tempted to reach out to ToyTec to see if we can have Eibach bent up some longer 99 clones. They'd be great for those of us that aren't running armor all over and want a factory-like ride. And when I say factory-like, I mean it has that awesome rear spring rate that helps soak up bumps, but it would have more travel to actually use the dampening that we throw under these things. Just because you're lifting doesn't mean you have to have a choppy, crappy ride.
With no sway bars, there is a lot of body sway. Some people don't mind it, but it scares others. Personally, I like the mushed feel at turn in, but it doesn't inspire confidence. When you throw e wheel into a corner, the body roll is proportionate to how much you move the steering wheel.... so large steering angles CAN produce SME scary body roll. I'm still undecided on I'll run like this on the street; there are way too many knuckle heads out there I have to watch out for out there. If you're disconnecting the front, remove the rear completely. But do so at your own peril, as it can be dangerous on road.
I love how a heavy dampening setup feels with lighter spring rates. I've driven a TRD T/X Series Baja Tacoma, and the dampening feel was on a completely different level. That used a slightly lighter spring than stock and had some MAJOR work done by TRD's crew that helped Ivan Stewart's Baja efforts back in the day. It was awesome, but it was way stiffer than this 4Runner setup.
Both Bilstein and Icon use Digressive Valving, but Icon takes it to the next level. Slow small bump compliance is not great, but as you pick up speed, the suspension gets better and better. More later, breakfast calls...
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Thanks bro. I think we have a new record for how fast we can do a coil swap. We have done 3 different 4runner builds in the last 6 months. The 1 thing that everyone should know that is reading this is, don't buy a spring that has to high of of the spring rate for your vehicle.
If you have plate front bumpers and a winch hanging off the front use the tundra front coils. If you don't use the 4 Runner coils.
If you have 330 pounds of permanently attached weight to the rear of your vehicle then 890's are your coil. If not use the 99 talls.
In the words of the icon rep I talked to. The coil is there to hold the vehicle up nothing more. Most of the kits they develop have the stock spring rate, or lower.
If you have plate front bumpers and a winch hanging off the front use the tundra front coils. If you don't use the 4 Runner coils.
If you have 330 pounds of permanently attached weight to the rear of your vehicle then 890's are your coil. If not use the 99 talls.
In the words of the icon rep I talked to. The coil is there to hold the vehicle up nothing more. Most of the kits they develop have the stock spring rate, or lower.
Great stuff you guys are doing. This is exactly the direction I've been wanting to go. Not a lot of info out there on smaller lift / controlled rides.
I've had to take a step back from my original plans because of financial reasons, but it's fun seeing the out come of some different ideas then what everyone else runs.
Not knocking any ones setups, but my style of wheeling and exploration doesn't require hauling hundreds of pounds gear for a week long excursion with winches and thick skids on 33-35's. Well not now at least
Keep the pics vids and info coming, Thank You!!!!!
I've had to take a step back from my original plans because of financial reasons, but it's fun seeing the out come of some different ideas then what everyone else runs.
Not knocking any ones setups, but my style of wheeling and exploration doesn't require hauling hundreds of pounds gear for a week long excursion with winches and thick skids on 33-35's. Well not now at least
Keep the pics vids and info coming, Thank You!!!!!
SCRunner12
New member
Just thought I'd throw this up here if you plan on buying your retro kit.
"Because regular Christmas lights just aren't enough!
We invite you to take 15% off any order at The Retrofit Source online: headlight upgrades for all applications using the coupon code "ChristmasLights"
The sale goes through Wednesday, cannot be combined with any other offers, and is good on all products except VIP projectors.
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year from everybody here at The Retrofit Source."
"Because regular Christmas lights just aren't enough!
We invite you to take 15% off any order at The Retrofit Source online: headlight upgrades for all applications using the coupon code "ChristmasLights"
The sale goes through Wednesday, cannot be combined with any other offers, and is good on all products except VIP projectors.
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year from everybody here at The Retrofit Source."
quicksilvr
New member
Needs center caps! Besides that, looks great.
The4kbeast
New member
Nice... Ordered some goodies!
1x Bi-xenon Morimoto Mini Stage III Kit (D2S)
Shrouds: Apollo 2.0
Re-sealing Glue: No Thanks
Halos: Yes, Morimoto XB LED (White)
Bulbs: New Philips 85122+ D2S
Wire Harness: Relay: H4/9003
Ballasts: 2) Morimoto 3Five 35w (Long Cord)
Projectors: LHD (North American Standard)
The4kbeast
New member
Great stuff you guys are doing. This is exactly the direction I've been wanting to go. Not a lot of info out there on smaller lift / controlled rides.
I've had to take a step back from my original plans because of financial reasons, but it's fun seeing the out come of some different ideas then what everyone else runs.
Not knocking any ones setups, but my style of wheeling and exploration doesn't require hauling hundreds of pounds gear for a week long excursion with winches and thick skids on 33-35's. Well not now at least
Keep the pics vids and info coming, Thank You!!!!!
Thanks, man. I'm sure there are a couple of reasons why the smaller lifts aren't as numerous, but I think the reason there aren't that many smaller lift options is because there just aren't that many good options out there for a solid 2-3" lift without tons of weight designed in to the spring rate. They ride like crap unless you really dial back your dampening or have enough weight in them to make them use their travel, and it is much easier to go with the volume 3" lifts. That's what I've found that I've done now whether I wanted to or not! And I'm not knocking anyone's setups either for others reading (hope I never come off that way). Suspension setups are varied because of personal preference and intended use. We're all just trying to find what works for what our needs are.
Lol, with all of the changes we've made I think we've done more than three lifts total now. The 890 just isn't the go to spring it seems everyone makes it out to be. Not too many on here talk about spring rates or weight recommendations via the Old Man Emu site: http://arbusa.com/uploads/PDF/accessorizeYourRig/toyota4Runner.pdf
Front:
STOCK/LIGHT LOAD (0-110LBS) SPRING 1.25" 880
HEAVY LOAD (110-240LBS) SPRING 1.25" 881
Rear:
MEDIUM LOAD SPRING 2.0" 2906 (IMO, this should be a heavy-rated spring)
HEAVY LOAD (330LBS TO GVW) SPRING 2.5" 2890
HEAVY CONSTANT LOAD (660LBS TO SPRING 3.0" GVW) 2891
I ordered some 99 springs for myself before the overnight parts cutoff deadline today at my local Toyota store; they'll be there at 7am when they open. And so will I, to pick them up. I might need a small spacer, but at least the spring rate will be reasonable. I wish ToyTec or one of the other aftermarket companies would make a 2.5-3" spring that had a similar-to-stock rate. If a suspension company was local it'd make for a great addition to the market.
Thanks, I was undecided since the LX wheels didn't come with caps, but I might just snatch some up on eBay and throw them on. I'm trying not to get bogged down in looks since I'm trying to get everything functioning properly. Maybe at some point it will move further up the priority list.
Dezert4Runner
Senior Member
Funny after all that you're back to a factory rear spring. I put on my front 99 talls with Tacoma 5100's and love them! Now time to address the rear. I was considering 890's or a spacer for my rear 99 talls, and reading your review on the 890's makes me sway towards the spacer. Not to mention the huge cost difference that could go towards some rear shocks.
What are your impressions of your silverado 5100's? What was the valving on them? Also, when lifting using the 890's, you made a brake line extension. Is that all that's needed or do you need an extended brake line? Been a while since I researched that one!
What are your impressions of your silverado 5100's? What was the valving on them? Also, when lifting using the 890's, you made a brake line extension. Is that all that's needed or do you need an extended brake line? Been a while since I researched that one!
The4kbeast
New member
Sound deadening, intake mod, ebrake extension bracket
Added sound insulation to three of the four doors... One more to go.
Been messing around with replacement intake plumbing:
This is a test pipe, eventually I'll finish my metal one that's a bit more permanent:
Made a few ebrake extension brackets for myself and a few others so the ebrake doesn't hang up down travel. The others were all painted, but I haven't had time to paint my own yet. The install is VERY CRITICAL so the ebrake guide loop doesn't rest up against the rear hydraulic brake line... it could wear through the line and you could lose brakes.
Added sound insulation to three of the four doors... One more to go.
Been messing around with replacement intake plumbing:
This is a test pipe, eventually I'll finish my metal one that's a bit more permanent:
Made a few ebrake extension brackets for myself and a few others so the ebrake doesn't hang up down travel. The others were all painted, but I haven't had time to paint my own yet. The install is VERY CRITICAL so the ebrake guide loop doesn't rest up against the rear hydraulic brake line... it could wear through the line and you could lose brakes.
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The4kbeast
New member
Here's a quick one... Went on a few trails
Dhalsey was there scouting, too:
Just for fun:
ALSO, shot some vids of the front suspension in action... Will piece together some footage at some point.
Dhalsey was there scouting, too:
Just for fun:
ALSO, shot some vids of the front suspension in action... Will piece together some footage at some point.
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The4kbeast
New member
Back to 99s... I know, right? The Taco 5100s are pretty awesome on the 4Runner. I can't get a soft enough factory spring to get the valving to open up. There is small bump compliance when the front is unloaded when you're on throttle, but I can't always be on throttle to softe the front.
I'll tell ya man, it won't be the popular answer on here, but I'd say Hang on to that softer 99 spring rate and spend the extra cash on quality dampening. Your rear feel like it will have a single flop after obsorbing a hit, but some of that isn't bad. It will feel different than the front, but then again, there is a different type of suspension system there.
As for the Silverados, Steve at Sanoron warned me that rear shocks designed for rear leaf springs tend to have too much dampening to be effective on the back of our solid axle setup. I don't know the numbers off hand, but on Bilsteins scale the Silverado shocks are rated as high as industrial equipment. Ideally if we were stuck on using Bilstein, I'd say to use the Silverado shock body and have Bilstein revalve them to the 155/## that the ToyTecs rears run at. But that would be an extra $75 each, so it doesn't make a lot of sense because that would bring the total to about $300. It would be a nice setup though, as the lengths would be nicely matched.
On the other hand, if I knew I was going with an aftermarket rear bumpstop I might figure out how big that assembly is and plan my rear shock lengths around that. But the you'd have to figure out what the valving was. I should look and see what Billys are slightly longer than the Silverados and have better valving. My wife is going to kill me, lol.
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The4kbeast
New member
Ocotillo
Installed some brand new 99 rear springs and Plasti-dipped my wheels.
Before: 21.5" front, 22 1/4" rear
After: 21.5" front, 21 1/4" rear (will need spacers, old wheels mean I have a few wheels to plasti-dip)
Spare all cleaned up... if the other four where non chrome like this, I'd be much happier
After third coat... It's the wrong gunmetal grey for me, too bright, so I'm already wishing I got flat black
_______________________________________________________
Installed 20 mm spacers on Dhalsey's rig and spaced up the front Icons. Learned that my ratios of wheel travel were incorrect from Off-Road.com's project build from back in the day.
99s alone:
With 20 mm spacers:
Adjusting the front coilovers:
Installed some brand new 99 rear springs and Plasti-dipped my wheels.
Before: 21.5" front, 22 1/4" rear
After: 21.5" front, 21 1/4" rear (will need spacers, old wheels mean I have a few wheels to plasti-dip)
Spare all cleaned up... if the other four where non chrome like this, I'd be much happier
After third coat... It's the wrong gunmetal grey for me, too bright, so I'm already wishing I got flat black
_______________________________________________________
Installed 20 mm spacers on Dhalsey's rig and spaced up the front Icons. Learned that my ratios of wheel travel were incorrect from Off-Road.com's project build from back in the day.
99s alone:
With 20 mm spacers:
Adjusting the front coilovers:
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Dezert4Runner
Senior Member
Devil's slide?! Last time I was there was 2009 riding my now sold '03 YZ125 
You guys happen to go up blow sand? Or to shell reef?
You guys happen to go up blow sand? Or to shell reef?
The4kbeast
New member
Ocotillo
Went to Ocotillo today with Dhalsey, located in the beautiful California desert. Got some great pictures and video, though the vids won't come as quickly as the pics will.
Teaser:
Went to Ocotillo today with Dhalsey, located in the beautiful California desert. Got some great pictures and video, though the vids won't come as quickly as the pics will.
Teaser:
The4kbeast
New member
Devil's slide?! Last time I was there was 2009 riding my now sold '03 YZ125
You guys happen to go up blow sand? Or to shell reef?
Had to move my Ocotillo trip down a post because I forgot I hadn't done my write up on preparations for the trip, but yup, that is Devil's slide. Didn't make it over to blow sand because we wanted to see the 4x4 park and mini Grand Canyon. We hit the Pumpkin Patch and a few other spots as well. We got out there at about 10am (really early morning) and took off at about 6pm. Gt a lot of wheeling in.
The4kbeast
New member
Few more pictures of my 3rd gen at Ocotillo Dec 2012 Part 1
Devil's Slide:
Lunch at the Pumpkin Patch:
Post lunch flexing in between trail drives:
Stuffed:
Tight fit!
Devil's Slide:
Lunch at the Pumpkin Patch:
Post lunch flexing in between trail drives:
Stuffed:
Tight fit!
The4kbeast
New member
Few more pictures of my 3rd gen at Ocotillo Dec 2012 Part 2
Getting darker:
Along Shell Reef Expressway waiting for a fly-by:
See the GoPro mount of the front flare? Awes vid shot today!
Here's Dhalsey doing his fly by going about 60. Notice when he crosses the trail... I think he caught a bit of air.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...-8880-B96397244164-10699-00000B4FE42C4324.mp4
Getting darker:
Along Shell Reef Expressway waiting for a fly-by:
See the GoPro mount of the front flare? Awes vid shot today!
Here's Dhalsey doing his fly by going about 60. Notice when he crosses the trail... I think he caught a bit of air.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...-8880-B96397244164-10699-00000B4FE42C4324.mp4
The4kbeast
New member
Previewed some of the videos at my in-laws house. I got some pretty good shots of the front suspension, off the driver side front flare, and the top of the windsheild looking forward... considering I don't have a viewfinder on my GoPro, I was pleased.
Hit the front bump stops a few times, the rear frame mounts once, and ground the trailer hitch at least four separate times. Need to sort out my bump stops, but overall the suspension works well.
On front, the stock springs on the 5th perch of the Tundra 5100s don't have the best small bump compliance unless you are on throttle and moving. The setup works pretty well at medium speeds, which is where I'm comfortable driving. It is still enough that I removed the front sway bar and have yet to put it back on. It actually feels like it has more roll resistance than the Tundra setup. The Tundras actually feel softer in corners, which is really odd to me. The Tundra coils are huge compared to the 4Runner coils. Maybe it is because the stock spring is compressed more than it would be on a stock 4Runner? Whatever the reason, I may decide to try the Tundra coil again on the second perch at some point... The spring had begun to settle in after the first month and the ride height was about where it is now. I take that to mean that to mean that the Tundra coils ARE a higher spring rate to compress since they are a only a little over an inch longer measured uncompressed off the struts. I do have a hollow sounding thunking on the drivers side front - I'm guessing it is noise traveling down the sway bar since one link is disconnected (wait until you see the video of the floating sway bar in my vids). Other thing it could be is that I overtightened the center nut holding the top spring seat on. I don't have the SST to check torque when I tightened down on the rubber top and bottom, so have gone a bit too extreme ... Or worse, not tight enough! I also have a tire rubbing issue on the back of the wheel well, which is common. I'll have to do the pinch weld mod until I find a reason to have the alignment done so I can have them max out the stock alignment and move the lower arm forward.
Out back, I removed the sway bar completely and notice a bit more understeer on corner entry and in mid-corner. I do like the lighter bump compliance on patchy and rough roads. The new OEM 99 coils help the Silverado 5100s get into their valving. It rides so much better than the 890s or 906s. Don't get me wrong the valving is still stiff on compression, and the rebound feels a bit too high, but the lack of spring rate is the best match for the stock 99 springs I'm using.
Hit the front bump stops a few times, the rear frame mounts once, and ground the trailer hitch at least four separate times. Need to sort out my bump stops, but overall the suspension works well.
On front, the stock springs on the 5th perch of the Tundra 5100s don't have the best small bump compliance unless you are on throttle and moving. The setup works pretty well at medium speeds, which is where I'm comfortable driving. It is still enough that I removed the front sway bar and have yet to put it back on. It actually feels like it has more roll resistance than the Tundra setup. The Tundras actually feel softer in corners, which is really odd to me. The Tundra coils are huge compared to the 4Runner coils. Maybe it is because the stock spring is compressed more than it would be on a stock 4Runner? Whatever the reason, I may decide to try the Tundra coil again on the second perch at some point... The spring had begun to settle in after the first month and the ride height was about where it is now. I take that to mean that to mean that the Tundra coils ARE a higher spring rate to compress since they are a only a little over an inch longer measured uncompressed off the struts. I do have a hollow sounding thunking on the drivers side front - I'm guessing it is noise traveling down the sway bar since one link is disconnected (wait until you see the video of the floating sway bar in my vids). Other thing it could be is that I overtightened the center nut holding the top spring seat on. I don't have the SST to check torque when I tightened down on the rubber top and bottom, so have gone a bit too extreme ... Or worse, not tight enough! I also have a tire rubbing issue on the back of the wheel well, which is common. I'll have to do the pinch weld mod until I find a reason to have the alignment done so I can have them max out the stock alignment and move the lower arm forward.
Out back, I removed the sway bar completely and notice a bit more understeer on corner entry and in mid-corner. I do like the lighter bump compliance on patchy and rough roads. The new OEM 99 coils help the Silverado 5100s get into their valving. It rides so much better than the 890s or 906s. Don't get me wrong the valving is still stiff on compression, and the rebound feels a bit too high, but the lack of spring rate is the best match for the stock 99 springs I'm using.
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