>BUILD THREAD< The4kbeast's 3rd-Gen 2000 T4R SR5 (Highlander Edition) 4x4 Build

[The4kbeast]

I'm interested on what you dig up from Radflo. I'm in the process of educating myself on shock technology and valving. You wouldn't happen to have found out the valving for those rear Bilstein Tundra shocks, did you? Or the OEM LC Tokico valving? I need to find the "most appropriate" valving numbers for our rigs...

Sup Rickashay, I think my Bilstein Rep forgot to call me back or follow up to my email. Was supposed to send him PNs, and he was going to follow up pwith me. Never heard back, so itd be on me to dig it up. I dont think Tokico shared valving information openly like Bilstein does (to Bilsteins credit). Thats why i was trying to see what Bilstein did, so I could make a very unscientific guess at what Tokico was doing to control the back end ofthe LC.

Speaking of Raflo, they have an awesome page on their site that covers the different types of shock technologies and what they're best used for. from emulsion, to air, etc. they wrote back and denied my request for shock dimensions, saying that they "do not divulge our OE replacement shock dimensions. None of our competitors do either as we all spend so much time and money in R&D on these. If we did post these our competitors would more than likely just copy them. I can tell you that our dimensions on your 4Runner are very similar to the Australian brands (TJM, ARB, IronMan). They seem to be the only ones left who make a rear spring for them anyways.
We only use Eibach springs which we feel are the best spring on the market. This gives us the capability to fine tune the spring rate on the coil-overs to match what accessories you have on the vehicle and how you will use the vehicle. We can offer 600Lb, 650Lb, and 700 Lb springs. All of our coil-overs and any rear shocks that have an eye have Teflon lined bearings on the top and bottom. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Thanks"

Hopefully they don't have a bearing upper mount. And it is BS that they won't share their dimensions. I don't want a 7.5" shock, and I don't want to buy a shock to discover what their dimensions are. I understand about protecting your business, but protect your valving design and dimensions, not something as important as you shock length compressed and extended.

RE: wheels. I think those wheels just look dirty as you can see the red dust around the hub. FWIT I re-finished my old FZJ80 wheels with elbow grease, some primer, and a rattle can job. They turned out surprisingly well and held up to tons of off road abuse. The nice thing was, when I would chip them on rocks or something I could just touch the paint up and you would never be the wiser.

Did you paint after the tires were installed, or before? From the sound of your prep work, it sounds like you didn't use the dang plasti-dip that everyone goes on about. Need to read up on primer as well, don't remember if I want an etching or non-etching primer. Any recommendations on paint type? I'm going to end up just painting over the chrome... I don't want to pay over $100 for media blasting if there is no guarantee that it will work.

 

[rickashay]

Hmmm... interesting stuff there. I'm surprised they won't "leak" their compressed and extended lengths as I am sure their OEM replacement shocks are off the shelf units with probably specific valving for that application.

I've been looking at the Fox shocks a lot recently. I like the fact that you can get them with a zinc coating like the Bilsteins, so they will be more corrosion resistant. They also have an option for rubber bushings which is nice because as good as all that "teflon" coated blah blah blah sounds, its going to be squeaky and annoying down the road. Or at least, that's what my research has shown. I hate annoying noises coming from my truck, but that's just me and I also would prefer to run BJ UCA's (like your Light Racing ones) vs. a uniball set for the same reasons.

Regarding the wheels: I used sand paper and emery (spelling?) cloth to remove the surface coat on the factory finish and got rid of all of the pitting etc. I filled any "larger" existing wheel knicks with JB Weld and sanded them flat upon drying. I then used Duplicolor self-etching primer on the wheels. After the primer I did a Duplicolor "hi-temp" wheel coating in gloss black followed with a few coats of clearcoat. You can see I started to work on them on this page in my build thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/84811-98-sr5-dirt-duster-build.html
If you follow along for a couple more pages you will see them all finished in their shiny glory. haha

 

[Yoter]

Sup Yoter, thanks for following up. those measurements match what I got out of Tundra Double Cab front springs and 906 rears with around 50 lbs in back. I am running the stock bump stop in the spring. How is the small bump compliance with your Tundra access cab fronts? I'm trying some of the OEM Tokico LC80 rear shocks next, will be here Friday. Won't work with your 906s due to their shorter length...

I am glad to know that we at least got the same amount of lift. I am on the hunt for a cheap set of FJ Cruiser springs and shocks I have seen them go for only 50 dollars on craigslist, figure its worth trying.

As for the "bump compliance", if I correctly understand what you are asking... On small rough surface texture at low speeds it is rather jaring, not bad enough to be uncomfortable but as you said in an above post I feel like I am not using the travel of the suspension but rather just bouncing over the terrain. At higher speeds (~30mph) I am very impressed with the TRD's they give just enough to soak up the minor bumps. I have not done any wheeling or crawling this is just my experience on rough pavement and dirt fire roads.

Rather than enlarging the rear shock mounting whole, would it be possible to grind down the shaft of the fj80 shocks and rethread them to fit?
I know this is a lot of work but shouldn't the stock thickness be strong enough, If I cant find another cheap and effective shock I might try this.

I am also now thinking that a diff drop would be a good idea even if it changes the angle of the diff enough to cause lubrication issues I am so rarely in 4x4 that I think it is the lesser of the two evils for me.
Is there a reason that you chose the Sonoran over the Toytec?

 

[The4kbeast]

I've been quietly sniffing around Rigid Industries website dreaming up mounting locations. I have an epic idea for mounting, but my brother talked some sense into me.

Me: "These LED bars are sick... Low power and bright as hell."
Bro: "yeah, but without a roof rack, all of your light output is at headlight level or lower which would be garbage for higher speed off road. Why not just improve you stock lighting?"

Solid logic, so I poked around and found Bandit Runners thread installing the H1 minis. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-runners-projector-headlights.html#post905654
Sounded fairly easy. So now I've decided to do this before getting led bars, as they are about the same money. Just trying to figure out which is best in Terms of width of beam, cost, and what will fit and lock in the housing solid enough that it doesn't bounce around in the housing (if it really is even an issue). In the comment section, I noticed one person complaining that they couldn't tighten everything down enough to keep the bouncing down.

I wrote Bandit to see...

 

[Yoter]

I know that you like to do thorough research, not sure if you have come across this site but I found it to be helpful and the users to be very friendly and wiling to answer all my noob questions!
HiDplanet : The Official Automotive Lighting Forum
Hope this helps

They also have a good classifieds section

 

[rickashay]

As far as usability, the retrofit is going to be better than a lightbar as you can use it for ANY night-time driving situation. The LED's are bright as hell, have low power draw, but are something I would not even run if there is any kind of traffic around. You'd be scorching retina's left right and center! ahah I also don't know how much I like the idea of roof mounts. It looks super cool but I wonder how bad the glare off of the hood would be?

If you need help choosing a projector setup or need any info in that department, let me know. I now scavenge your suspension specs, so the least I can do is return the favor with some projector info.

 

[MountainBiker]

Speaking of Raflo....
We can offer 600Lb, 650Lb, and 700 Lb springs.

That is pretty lame, they don't have "600Lb, 650Lb, and 700 Lb springs", nobody does. I'm sure they mean 600 lb/inch springs. This is a semi-minor nitpick, but I'd expect them to use the correct terminology in a conversation with a customer.

Not telling you the compressed and extended lengths is also very LAME! How can customers make decisions on chosing their products without these important dimensions? :sniper:

 

[The4kbeast]

As far as usability, the retrofit is going to be better than a lightbar as you can use it for ANY night-time driving situation. The LED's are bright as hell, have low power draw, but are something I would not even run if there is any kind of traffic around. You'd be scorching retina's left right and center! ahah I also don't know how much I like the idea of roof mounts. It looks super cool but I wonder how bad the glare off of the hood would be?

If you need help choosing a projector setup or need any info in that department, let me know. I now scavenge your suspension specs, so the least I can do is return the favor with some projector info.

Agreed, it will be way more practical. The LEDs may happen someday, but I'd rather have on road lighting benefits, too. If you got the angles right and mount the light far enough back, you may not have reflective issues. I'm not going to think about it more now, I'll drive myself nuts thinking of new ways to do it. Like a 1.5" tall x 30" wide SR-series mounted in front of the front roof rack. Grr

Here's what I was considering:
Bi-xenon Morimoto Mini Stage III Kit (H1)$270.00
— Ballasts: Morimoto 3Five (35w) - is this digital or analog?
— Bulbs: H1: Morimoto 3Five 5000K - will match led better
— Halos: No Thanks
— Projectors: LHD (North American Standard)
— Re-sealing Glue: Yes please+$10.00 - sniff, sniff... Num, num, num, num
— Shrouds: 2) Mini Graphite -will light the stock housing
— Wire Harness: Relay: H4/9003

I know... This is the safe route. I like the larger lens on the FXR, but I don't want to spend all weekend trimming and aligning the retrofit so I can paint the housing without buying a second set of lights. I understand the housings will get their reflector cap cut out, but that wouldn't be tough. I'm a little unsure if the mounting will be sturdy enough for romping, as one person in the comments was complaining about just that. Is there an advantage to a larger projector lens? Retrofit source doesn't list out lens angles or any of that, so I guess you just buy the diameter lens you want and hope the angle is wider?

That is pretty lame, they don't have "600Lb, 650Lb, and 700 Lb springs", nobody does. I'm sure they mean 600 lb/inch springs. This is a semi-minor nitpick, but I'd expect them to use the correct terminology in a conversation with a customer.

Not telling you the compressed and extended lengths is also very LAME! How can customers make decisions on chosing their products without these important dimensions? :sniper:

I didn't notice that before, yup. It's not like the ext/comp lengths are hard to figure out, I just want to know if it will work before I chase it down and buy it. Will it work with my bump stops? No idea. Is it an extended travel shock? No idea. Kind of sad, but I think I'm going to write him back to see if I can talk some sense into him. No one seems to run Radflo on 3rd gens, so I would think they would want to get this information out in the general public.

 

[rickashay]

Here's what I was considering:
Bi-xenon Morimoto Mini Stage III Kit (H1)$270.00
— Ballasts: Morimoto 3Five (35w) - is this digital or analog?
— Bulbs: H1: Morimoto 3Five 5000K - will match led better
— Halos: No Thanks
— Projectors: LHD (North American Standard)
— Re-sealing Glue: Yes please+$10.00 - sniff, sniff... Num, num, num, num
— Shrouds: 2) Mini Graphite -will light the stock housing
— Wire Harness: Relay: H4/9003

I know... This is the safe route. I like the larger lens on the FXR, but I don't want to spend all weekend trimming and aligning the retrofit so I can paint the housing without buying a second set of lights. I understand the housings will get their reflector cap cut out, but that wouldn't be tough. I'm a little unsure if the mounting will be sturdy enough for romping, as one person in the comments was complaining about just that. Is there an advantage to a larger projector lens? Retrofit source doesn't list out lens angles or any of that, so I guess you just buy the diameter lens you want and hope the angle is wider?

It's not the size of the lens that your purchasing with the Mini Kit. You can get the FX-R's in a 3" or a 2.5" lens. In my experience the lens size barely makes a difference in terms of output. Having the TRS "clear lenses" will be a dramatically larger upgrade vs. having a bigger lens. (And all TRS projectors have the clear lenses unless your getting OEM projectors). The FX-R will have a wider beam pattern, be a little more crisp on the cutoff, have a different shape of "step" on the low beam, and also has better color (my opinion, FWIW - not really adding any functionality but looks...). Also the FX-R's are harder to mount because you have to align them manually. They do not screw into place like the Mini's do - using a rubber seal and screw clamp. The Mini's projector base is threaded and a large thread washer locks down where the projector meets headlight assembly. It's WAY easier to mount but definitely not as secure. The FX-R's require epoxy and precise cutting (I don't recommend this method) or you physically bolt the projector to the housing using 4 bolts and then seal the back with silicone. Simply put the FX-R is a better projector with better optics, a better beam, and a more secure mounting setup. However it comes at a cost of a harder installation.

Ballasts are "digital". The Morimoto ballasts are also weather sealed better than the Kioto OEM ballasts, so they are a good choice for a 4x4 rig IMO.

For bulbs, you may want to read SCRunner's projector thread. He was using 5000K bulbs and ended up not very happy with the results. He is now switching to 4300K to increase the output - I also recommend 4300K to all my customers as it does not wash the details like 5000K does and it's simply a brighter bulb due to the Kelvin rating.

 

[SCRunner12]

For bulbs, you may want to read SCRunner's projector thread. He was using 5000K bulbs and ended up not very happy with the results. He is now switching to 4300K to increase the output - I also recommend 4300K to all my customers as it does not wash the details like 5000K does and it's simply a brighter bulb due to the Kelvin rating.

I was just about to post up here about my experience. I think the Mini's are fine for someone who isn't comfortable retrofitting or just wants a better than stock output. My Mini's are secure, but as Addison said, the FX-R's will have more stability.

I would as well encourage you to get 4300K bulbs or at the very least get the XB35 bulbs. The Morimoto bulbs are better than stock, but not very nice in the retrofitting world. A lot of people buy the Morimoto's and then skip to the XB's or a better projector. With that said, I also would encourage you to not get the Mini H1's, but go with the Mini D2S's. While they might have a little different outputs, the D2S's have a much better bulb selection. You can use the OEM bulbs (Phillips & Osram), which are much better than the XB's. It would be worth it in the end if you are just sticking with the Mini's.

Also I would suggest getting something other than the Mini shrouds. Spend the extra money and get a full sized shroud rather than the Mini Gatling Guns. It will look better in our large housings and I wish I would have gone that route in the first place.

Those are a few things I realized after doing my retro. I'm happy to answer any more questions you may have.

 

[The4kbeast]

Great feedback guys, let me first out on my flight back into town and I'm sure I'll have more questions. (burp)

 

[The4kbeast]

Any thoughts on 35W vs 55W?

 

[SCRunner12]

Any thoughts on 35W vs 55W?

The Mini's can only use the 35W ballasts as the 55W is too much for them. Plus the 55W ballasts will reduce your bulb life in half.

 

[The4kbeast]

The Mini's can only use the 35W ballasts as the 55W is too much for them. Plus the 55W ballasts will reduce your bulb life in half.

Their life is halved even if you match a 55 bulb to a 55 ballast? I read it was a no-no to match a 35 with a 55, but was trying to figure out why no one was going bigger.

 

[SCRunner12]

Their life is halved even if you match a 55 bulb to a 55 ballast? I read it was a no-no to match a 35 with a 55, but was trying to figure out why no one was going bigger.

Well the H1's don't come in a 55W bulb, so that solves that decision if you do follow through with the H1's. Also the 55W ballasts will wash out some of the color. The reflector bowl could possibly be damaged from extended use of 55W ballasts in the smaller projectors like the Mini's and event eh FX-R's. The larger projectors like the TL and LS460's can handle the 55W's a lot better. Also if you go with nice bulbs like the Phillips or Osram SVS or CBI then you don't want to burning through any faster as they are a bit expensive. Rickashay will know more about this, but here is some info from TRS. HID ballast information from The Retrofit Source Inc

35w:
— Provides the best everyday and long term reliability.
— Runs the bulbs at the coolest possible operating temperatures, aiding in the longevity of crucial reflective finishes inside the projectors.
— Produces a light output that's still more than adequately bright, especially when coupled with a good set of projectors.
— Bulbs will run at their rated Kelvin/color temperature.

55w:
— Provides approximately 25-30% more intensity in the light output.
— Reduced reliability and lifespan of the ballast itself and the bulb.
— Added heat can potentially reduce the reflectivity inside projectors after prolonged use, especially if the projector is small in size (making it less capable of absorbing and shedding the heat)
— Washes out the color of the HID bulb (if that bulb is not specially made for 55w ballasts)

 

[rickashay]

^Robert, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I actually JUST posted this in my projector retrofit thread, so here is a small excerpt pretty much reiterating what Rob said above:

"IMO, going with 55w is not worth the gains achieved, once you consider component reliability. 55W ballasts run WAY hotter than 35W and the life expectancy of the ballasts reflects that issue. Also, a lot (or most) projectors are not designed for 55w in mind. You may get more light, but you CAN (depending on the projectors) start to wash-out your output as some projectors dont react well to the more powerful ballast - think drop in HID's in a reflector housing not designed for them, the powerful HID's just overpower the halogen reflectors. It's not going to be near as dramatic as putting HID's in your halogen housings but more power isnt always better. I'm sure some would argue with me on this but I personally, won't ever run 55w on anything but a select few projectors."

 

[The4kbeast]

Quick update- Icon Install

Installed some Icons for my brother today figured I'd just put them here since he has no intentions of putting together a build thread.

Stuff completed:
Icon 2.5 extended coilovers
New OEM ball joints
ToyTech diff drop w/ Sonoran diff plate mod
Icon 2.5 rear with external reservoir
OME 890 springs

To be continued:
Light Racing stiffed him on the star plate, aluminum spindle insert, and c clip lock... So they are two for two for missing parts in their kits. Maybe one of their packers is building akitfor themselfone part at a time (J Cash).

Install went well, had four people helping (three, sir). It ran long due to a slow down the lower ball joints. But all in all, 17 hours start to finish. Holy crap!

Final front:

Upper BJ angle pre-upper control arms:

Front together at max droop:

Better shots later when it's day:

Did manage to get some extended lengths on the front and rears (20" and 22.75"). More later.

 

[dhalsey]

Thanks for the help bro. That was a long day. But it was totally worth it. The icons are amazing. I won't know for sure until I get it in the dirt, but they have done some really amazing things with tuning. Firm and controled, yet plush and bottomless on the bigger hits.

 

[hcck3d]

Sub'd. Thank you for the high level of detail.

 

[The4kbeast]

Thanks for the help bro. That was a long day. But it was totally worth it. The icons are amazing. I won't know for sure until I get it in the dirt, but they have done some really amazing things with tuning. Firm and controled, yet plush and bottomless on the bigger hits.

No problem. I got some valuable data off of the Icons before the install, and I can't wait to see what it settles out at. With the Icons, the "stance" isn't as important as the valving... Which was amazing on the short burst we took through our city woops. Like you said, the dirt test should be awesome. Maybe a trip to the hills is in order for a test session before hitting the desert?!