...got bass?

While certainly not in the same league as some in this thread, this setup is working fine for me.

Pioneer Avic 7100NEX
Focal IS 690TOY
JL Audio HX 280/4
JL Audio 500/1
JL Audio 10W3

Hi G35,

That's a very nice set-up; clean, cargo area conscientious, aesthetically inviting... 'Really a great way to go!' How did you manage to get the amp packaged so nicely in the wheel-well amplifier sub panel; did you build that custom amplifier rack yourself? ...'GOOD-JOB'!

rigtec
 
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Hey gang,

In my last addition to this thread I talked about the importance of the proper setting of 'Input Sensitivity and Gain'. And in that post I mentioned using a remote level control near or in the dashboard for easy access. Now I've always used a remote volume control w/ my subs because it's impossible to correct/control the bass while listening to your music. For one, the gain adjustment is accomplished using an electronics screwdriver and a flashlight while trying to see two "slotted" 3mm adjustment dials under the driver-seat!

So in my last project I removed two JL Audio HD-750 mono-blocks and replaced them w/ two Alpine PDX M-12 mono-blocks. The problem was that the 'Alpine RUX Remote Level Control' did not provide linear volume control. With the volume control set @ zero (7 O'clock), the system would gain 70% of it's full volume with only one third of a turn clockwise (10 O'clock). I spoke with Alpine T/S about this but they only verified that my wiring configuration (RJ-11 Non-reversed plug-n-jack) for multiple amps was correct... and it was. I absolutely could no longer accomplish a natural sounding bass with these amps!

This has been going on for months and I was completely frustrated with not only the new set-up, but my decision to replace the JL's; which I never had a problem with... but as they say: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ...just leave it the fuhuk alone! Last week it occurred to me that I could correct the bass another way which is by controlling the amp's input voltage from the HU using a 100K ohm rheostat. So I ordered some stuff from amazon and PartsExpress; "see below":

The 'SKAR audio' remote level control
rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36847-20151113-173440.jpg~original


Two 12' cables for the installation
rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36848-20151113-173816.jpg~original


I won't go into a lot about performing the install; most everybody here knows how to get in the dash when you need to! I will however, post a few photos to illustrate just what was done:

"THE CONFIGURATION PLAN"
rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36877-20151115-014131.jpg~original


The drawing above is somewhat 'self explanatory' so no need to elaborate.

The removal of the ALPINE RUX REMOTE
rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36849-20151114-130154.jpg
rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36850-20151114-130703.jpg~original

"The wire portal"


What the above picture shows (@Blue arrow) is that I was not be able to get the new RCA cables into the storage cavity like i did with the telephone line cord, so I had to bore the access port out more using the 'Uni-Bit' below:

rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36857-20151114-133826.jpg~original


Going back together
rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36851-20151114-131117.jpg~original


rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36871-20151114-132348.jpg~original


...and it's finally in! :hatsoff:
rigtec-albums-riggy-s+workbench-picture36872-20151114-162215.jpg~original


Well... It worked!!! I now have a very smooth, proportional, and linearly accurate control of the subwoofer's gain level! It actually sounds better than I had hoped for because it never sounded good, and I only wanted for it to sound "Musical". And even after spending hours fine tuning the system using the Digital signal processor (i.e. DSP), I was never really satisfied with the final results; bass was always too fat or thick and would tend to over power the music at all volume levels ...so glad that this phase of the subwoofer project is behind me!

I know that this problem isn't one that many ppl here using subs will run into, but that's exactly why I'm posting this subject; because it is so rare!

Tomorrow I'll be replacing the 3 inch dash speakers in the truck with some 'High Quality' Alpine one inch tweeters... I wanted to install them today but I ran out of time so I may post that job here shortly afterwards. ...until then... 'Best to you all'!

rigtec
 
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Alpine 1" dashboard tweeter replacement

Hi folks,

Now ordinarily I wouldn't stoop to going "off-topic" on anyone's thread; especially not on one of my own! But in this case I'll make an exception because (1), it's still related to the 4Runner audio system. (2) All of my audio system equipment is manufactured by 'Alpine USA', and (3), a common theme of this thread is focusing on 'ALL Aspects' of audio system wiring; a very fundamental subject but EXTREMELY demanding that you know it thoroughly!

I've been wanting to start replacing the high/mid-range door and dash speakers for some time now but my plan was to get all of those annoying little anomalies corrected in the sub-bass and bass ranges first... which can be a challenge at best! Now that I think I've got the right hardware established and working as it should (Knock-on-wood), last week I pulled the trigger on a pair of Alpine tweeters to go in the dash. There's a 'HUGE' selection of aftermarket drivers available to choose from these days, and every one of them 'Claims' to be nothing but the best of the best!

So how do you choose which one to buy??? That's a tough one, it really is! Well it helps to understand the audio industry lingo and professional terminology; those fancy words used by the folks in a particular business or trade. Also, it doesn't hurt to learn to read The Printed 'Spec Sheet'. When you read the product's description, you can count on there being a great deal of "artistic license" taken, because everyone has the right to express his or her own opinion about a subject or thing... 'tis just life! But where it comes to the written specifications of a product there are boundaries and guidelines to adhere to and no legitimate, reputable company wants to be exposed for 'fudging' the numbers on their printed documents; they'd be laughed out of business in short order!

The best thing (I think) about being familiar with the protocol of the printed spec sheet is, at just one glance you can spot a "Wish list" pretending to be an official document containing the most sensitive and accurate measurements of the product that the lab could render and publish! That said... I've always found companies like: JL Audio, Alpine, Cerwin-Vega, JBL... just to name a few, to be completely forthright regarding their products because: "those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing"! So a company like that gains your trust by a history of delivering good product, and they have! So I ordered the Alpine 1 inch 'SPS-110TW'. It's not a direct replacement for our 4R's, but they give you enough hardware to allow it to be fitted to anything, anywhere, at anytime! Here's a few pics of how the install went:

"THE O.E.M. (Uninstall)"






In the photo above you see the oem plug connector that joins the 'Driverside' 3 inch tweeter to the Driverside front door speaker. But the new Alpine driver doesn't have a harness connector plug to support that, so some 'Hokus-pokus' will be needed to make the transition! First we'll chop off that multi-feed connector to simplify things.

"HARDWARE PREPARATION"


The LT GREEN and BLUE wires are coming from the headunit and feed the tweeter. From there (via a jumper in the speaker harness network), the PINK and PURPLE wires go down to feed the door speakers (in parallel: 4ohms divided by 2 = 2ohms).

A QUICK ASSESSMENT OF OUR HARDWARE




Since no paperwork came with the driver kit, I'll have to do a 'visual assessment' to know what does what. There really aren't that many relevant parts in the boxes, just a bunch of make-shift (one size fits all) flanges to make it work!















As you can see I've joined the purple wire, the blue wire and the clear wires w/black stripe together. And the LT Green wire, the PINK wire, and the clear wires together as well. When you're doing the wiring it doesn't really matter which wire you choose to be your POSITIVE (+) or NEGATIVE (-) as long as you choose the same colors on both sides. NOTE: The colors on opposite sides (driver-passenger) are identical except on the passenger side, they've replaced the PURPLE wire with a YELLOW wire, so... just remember that YELLOW replaces PURPLE on the passenger side when you're doing your tie-in's!

"THE FINALE"






I hope that this project will be helpful to someone who's considering swapping out your oem dashboard tweeters for something new! Rdgs :yo:

rig (Click here to see front speaker wiring schematic >>>"Front speaker wiring diagram"
 
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Love how clean your set up looks, dont have a 5th gen but I let my buddy used my si bm 12" and old soundstream amp for his 2015 and installed it with an eqs and lc6i.

Have you tried using seas, dayton, scanspeak or vifa speakers? Seeing threads like these makes me want to get back into bass, still have all the equipments.
 
"...Have you tried using seas, dayton, scanspeak or vifa speakers? Seeing threads like these makes me want to get back into bass, still have all the equipments."

Hi Tyota89,

Thanks for your reply! Though I am not familiar with 'Seas, ScanSpeak or Vifa', I do know who 'Dayton' is... they're out of Ohio and I believe they're owned by 'Parts-Express' the 'online electronics parts distributor! ...Nice stuff!

cheers!
 
Hi Tyota89,

Thanks for your reply! Though I am not familiar with 'Seas, ScanSpeak or Vifa', I do know who 'Dayton' is... they're out of Ohio and I believe they're owned by 'Parts-Express' the 'online electronics parts distributor! ...Nice stuff!

cheers!

Should check them out you pick and choose speakers base on specs and match em up. Seems like you know your stuff and would enjoy the diy set up.
I had a pair of dayton rs180 that I ran with seas27tdfc with a id12 sub. Was probably the best setup I ran for my money.
 
Should check them out you pick and choose speakers base on specs and match em up. Seems like you know your stuff and would enjoy the diy set up.
I had a pair of dayton rs180 that I ran with seas27tdfc with a id12 sub. Was probably the best setup I ran for my money.

Thanks for the 'Heads-up', I'll definitely keep those in mind to give a listen to! Rgds

rig
 
Hey team,

After re-reading my last addition to this thread, "got bass", I just thought to put up the Front Dash & Door speaker wiring diag so you could follow it for yourself... "it's amazing the things you can forget to do @3:00am in the morning! :sleep: ...But at least I remembered to take pictures this time lol!" On the left side (driverside), the LT Green is POSITIVE(+) and the Blue is NEGATIVE(-). On the right side (passenger-side), the Pink is POSITIVE(+) and the Yellow is NEGATIVE(-)



...What I said about you having the freedom to decide which wires will go to the positive and negative terminals on the replacement speakers still stands... it don't make a tinkers bit-a-difference; just be consistent regarding the left and right channels or you may create sound anomalies that will degrade the performance of your new speakers!

'Best to you'!
 
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Wiring diagram for rear door and tailgate speakers

Hey rigtec

Do you have a diagram for rear door speakers and the tailgate? I'm thinking about picking up a 5 channel amp and using the 5 subwoofer channel for the tailgate speakers. In essence I'd be using them as a subwoofer. I'm not after pounding bass cuz I have kids.
 
Hey rigtec

Do you have a diagram for rear door speakers and the tailgate? I'm thinking about picking up a 5 channel amp and using the 5 subwoofer channel for the tailgate speakers. In essence I'd be using them as a subwoofer. I'm not after pounding bass cuz I have kids.

HEY... "It's Mr GRIMACE!!!"

Okay so your making some changes to your system! I've marked the speakers that you're interested in with RED and BLUE arrows. The RED arrows denote the Tailgate speakers. The BLUE arrows identify the Rear Door speakers.



If you're planning to 'tie-in' to the speaker wiring somewhere up front it will be tricky because the trough (wire gutter) is full of yellow, pink and blue wires with no numbers or labels; which makes I.D. difficult at best.
Best thing to do may be to run your own wires from the tailgate speakers and pull them to the amp platform location. You can feed your amp from the HU's L & R front speaker outputs, that may be the easiest route. Best!
 
Hey rigtec

Do you have a diagram for rear door speakers and the tailgate? I'm thinking about picking up a 5 channel amp and using the 5 subwoofer channel for the tailgate speakers. In essence I'd be using them as a subwoofer. I'm not after pounding bass cuz I have kids.

Are you changing out the speakers? The stock ones will not work as a subwoofer.
 
Are you changing out the speakers? The stock ones will not work as a subwoofer.

Hi there Mr tigger,

One of my main objectives for writing this thread was so folks here would be educated on the subject of subwoofers i.e. low frequency wave-front reproducing drivers. My goal is to prevent "Would be" 'audio system marketing predators' from having the opportunity to lore our folks (4Runner forum community members) into buying speakers that pretend to be "Sub-woofers" which will not perform the tasks that a subwoofer was specifically designed to perform!

One definition of a subwoofer:

Subwoofer (/sub.woof.ef/) A low frequency reproducing device designed for the purpose of radiating sound waves at very high sound pres. levels. This transducer must be capable of developing sound waves at a frequency below that of a conventional mid-bass or bass speaker; which itself may be capable of frequencies that may extend down to 60hz. A subwoofer will be responsible for reproducing frequencies beyond the limits of the human ear i.e. 20hz and lower.

A subwoofer must be capable of handling high impact transients at substantial levels, be able to generate SPL's (sound pressure level) at ten times that of a typical or conventional bass or mid-bass speaker. It's moving (suspension) system e.g., surround, spider, cone, voice-coil... must be able to tolorate demands of long distance travelling i.e. 9 to 25mm in one direction while producing no more than 10% THD. It's voice-coil/adhesives must endure temperatures in excess of 390 to 425 deg (F) without showing signs of fatigue or appreciable damage.

There's more but I gather that you get the point! Case-n-point... just because a speaker in a colorful box uses the word "Sub-woofer" and has the words "BLAST-O-MATIC 5000" printed on it doesn't mean it will behave or perform the assignment of a 'TRUE' sub! As you begin to become familiar with the protocols of a sub, you won't be so vulnerable to the hype or 'Buzz-words' used to get your attention... and your $$$$! I'll keep working to provide ways of identifying the true character of a subwoofer in hope of exposing those predatory speaker manufacturing/marketing agents at just one glance!

Cheers!
 
Are you changing out the speakers? The stock ones will not work as a subwoofer.

I plan to change out the tailgate speakers when when time and budget allows. I know it's not going to be a kick you in the face bass. It's more of a experiment before I put any more money into it.
 
I plan to change out the tailgate speakers when when time and budget allows. I know it's not going to be a kick you in the face bass. It's more of a experiment before I put any more money into it.

If you only want decent mid-bass from the tailgate speakers then a driver upgrade will likely provide that. But, if you're hoping for a little more low-end from your cargo area, 'may I suggest'... the enclosure has just as much or more influence on the bass affect than the drivers themselves. A solid box with ample bracing will 'prevent' the enclosure from resonating (this is when the enclosure walls starts to move along with the speaker cone; which causes dead spots, high energy consumption, non-linear frequency curve anomalies...etc).

The tailgate and doors in our beloved 4Runners (I hate to say) offer poor environment for a 'solid' low frequency platform. The extremely light weight panels would absorb tons of the subwoofer's energy, which will cancel the sound pressure needed to create the low frequency wave front reproduction! Also... without the ability to control the internal air pressure behind the driver, we would also have no ability to control it's cone, it's bandwidth, it's ability to handle the power that we are feeding it, or it's overall behavior!

I'm not saying this to discourage you; not in the least! I'm telling you this so you can make selective and insightful decisions 'BEFORE' you spend money on good speakers, only to find out that the enclosure you place them in won't be able to support what these drivers are there to do! Just thinking... I have a small empty, JL audio box that I used when I first bought the truck. It is a Sealed ten inch subwoofer box and sounds great. It takes up no space at all because it's designed to sit very close to the second row seat-back (a wedge). I don't want any money for it; If you think you could use it, shoot me a pm and we can discuss it further.

Cheers
 
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If you only want decent mid-bass from the tailgate speakers then a driver upgrade will likely provide that. But, if you're hoping for a little more low-end from your cargo area, 'may I suggest'... the enclosure has just as much or more influence on the bass affect than the drivers themselves. A solid box with ample bracing will 'prevent' the enclosure from resonating (this is when the enclosure walls starts to move along with the speaker cone; which causes dead spots, high energy consumption, non-linear frequency curve anomalies...etc).

The tailgate and doors in our beloved 4Runners (I hate to say) offer poor environment for a 'solid' low frequency platform. The extremely light weight panels would absorb tons of the subwoofer's energy, which will cancel the sound pressure needed to create the low frequency wave front reproduction! Also... without the ability to control the internal air pressure behind the driver, we would also have no ability to control it's cone, it's bandwidth, it's ability to handle the power that we are feeding it, or it's overall behavior!

I'm not saying this to discourage you; not in the least! I'm telling you this so you can make selective and insightful decisions 'BEFORE' you spend money on good speakers, only to find out that the enclosure you place them in won't be able to support what they're there to do! Just thinking... I have a small empty, JL audio box that I used when I first bought the truck. It is a Sealed ten inch subwoofer box and sounds great. It takes up no space at all because it's designed to sit very close to the second row seat-back (a wedge). I don't want any money for it; If you think you could use it, shoot me a pm and we can discuss it further.

Cheers

Thanks for the advice. I may postpone the tailgate til a later date. I did consider your concerns before. I was hoping that I'd be able to be able to test to see how it sounds before I replace/ line/seal anything. I was also concerned about the weight of the tailgate too after the update.

I'm looking at the Earthquake SWS 6.5. Anyone familiar with this?

Dave
 
I'm looking at the Earthquake SWS 6.5. Anyone familiar with this Dave

Hi Dave,

I wasn't familiar with "THIS" EarthQuake Sub, but 'CERWIN-VEGA' started a revolution back in the 70's with his earth-quake series concept known as "Sensurround"! These subwoofers were designed and built specifically for the upcoming thriller movie... EARTH-QUAKE! ...and they still make a modern version of the E.Q. series subs today! As far as the Earth-Quake that you mentioned, I just took a look at them and they seem to be built quite well! The ones that I saw were BMW specific; which used an enclosed structure (Plastic, carbon fiber or fiber glass), but that doesn't mean that they can't be used in a "Free Air" environment e.g., I.B. (Infinite baffle), when you build a plenum on the wall in one room like the garage or attic. Then you'd cut a hole through and mount the driver.

The 'back wave' of the cone 'vents' into one room, while the front wave radiates into your home theater room and is capable of breaking windows in the house across the street! As far as your project involving the implementation of the five channel amp w/ the fifth channel being dedicated to the tailgate... I really can't direct you because I haven't figured out how much or how low you would want the LF to go. All I can tell you is that those doors/tailgate can't support high sound quality low-end because of physics! I will, however, be available to support you in whatever you decide to do with your audio system so please keep us all informed on how you're making out!

Cheers
 
Special thanks to ANTMAN and DARKDANE.

Installed an ALPINE MRV-M500 and hooked a JL AUDIO 10" W3V3 JL POWERWEDGE.


Followed both of these members ANTMAN and DARKDANE instructions, I modified just the routing of the speakers/signal wires and ground wire grounded to the front/lower section left side you will see 2 screws and nuts when you pulled the front radio trim off, everything works and wow the sound on my system is amazing. NO hissing no LOC, The amp has a LOC built in, used the ALPINE harness Included with the amp.

I wished that I didn't have to cut the wires. Didn't have time to dig looking to add a pin so I didn't have to cut I had the radio plug and reverse plug could find info on the small white wire the purpose of it. I ended cutting the wires and using the butt connectors.

2016 TEP Original Head unit, ENTUNE NAV PREMIUM NON JBL, FOCAL 6X9 TOY Speakers, The rest of speakers are OEM, Future Upgrade replacing the rears and tail gate Speakers with KICKER KSC's rated as follow 4ohms wattage starts at 2watts no amp need it due to their sensitivity , right now my system sounds freaking amazing. Knock on wood no noises no hissing.
 
I thought this thread was going to be about fishing:fishing:


I was wrong :moping:
[MENTION=65614]Antman[/MENTION] would probably understand....
 
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