If gas gets to $5.00 a gallon
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What about these options:
1. Vote for a president with a foreign policy that does not antagonize every major oil producing nation in the world and thereby force oil traders to add a $10+ per barrel risk factor to futures prices
2. Vote for federal/state government willing to really figure out if the record oil/refining profits being made by oil companies are legit or due to subtle market manipulation (like timing of maintenance downtime at refineries, for example)
3. Vote for state/federal politicians that are not afraid to take on the nimbys and offer decent tax breaks to actually get a new refinery built in the US, anywhere in the US.
4. Vote for whoever is willing to beef up the fuel economy standards for US automakers to meaningful levels that will actually start to make a dent in gasoline consumption, even if it adds another $500 to the price of a car/truck (which it probably won't... just scare tactics from automakers)
I'm probably living in cloud cuckoo land to think anything like this will happen. As always it'll be left up to "market forces" and their glacial rate of change.
I do think there is a legitimate need to government to get involved more in monitoring the domestic oil and refining market because it is of strategic importance. Leaving it up to market forces when the market is controlled by only a handful of companies and most oil comes from abroad is a recipe for higher prices IMO.
flame away
1. Vote for a president with a foreign policy that does not antagonize every major oil producing nation in the world and thereby force oil traders to add a $10+ per barrel risk factor to futures prices
2. Vote for federal/state government willing to really figure out if the record oil/refining profits being made by oil companies are legit or due to subtle market manipulation (like timing of maintenance downtime at refineries, for example)
3. Vote for state/federal politicians that are not afraid to take on the nimbys and offer decent tax breaks to actually get a new refinery built in the US, anywhere in the US.
4. Vote for whoever is willing to beef up the fuel economy standards for US automakers to meaningful levels that will actually start to make a dent in gasoline consumption, even if it adds another $500 to the price of a car/truck (which it probably won't... just scare tactics from automakers)
I'm probably living in cloud cuckoo land to think anything like this will happen. As always it'll be left up to "market forces" and their glacial rate of change.
I do think there is a legitimate need to government to get involved more in monitoring the domestic oil and refining market because it is of strategic importance. Leaving it up to market forces when the market is controlled by only a handful of companies and most oil comes from abroad is a recipe for higher prices IMO.
flame away
RonMAIDEN
Super Moderator
pipspeak said:What about these options:
1. Vote for a president with a foreign policy that does not antagonize every major oil producing nation in the world and thereby force oil traders to add a $10+ per barrel risk factor to futures prices
2. Vote for federal/state government willing to really figure out if the record oil/refining profits being made by oil companies are legit or due to subtle market manipulation (like timing of maintenance downtime at refineries, for example)
3. Vote for state/federal politicians that are not afraid to take on the nimbys and offer decent tax breaks to actually get a new refinery built in the US, anywhere in the US.
4. Vote for whoever is willing to beef up the fuel economy standards for US automakers to meaningful levels that will actually start to make a dent in gasoline consumption, even if it adds another $500 to the price of a car/truck (which it probably won't... just scare tactics from automakers)
I'm probably living in cloud cuckoo land to think anything like this will happen. As always it'll be left up to "market forces" and their glacial rate of change.
I do think there is a legitimate need to government to get involved more in monitoring the domestic oil and refining market because it is of strategic importance. Leaving it up to market forces when the market is controlled by only a handful of companies and most oil comes from abroad is a recipe for higher prices IMO.
flame away
I'll be buying a cheap late '90s Civic and parking the 4Runner except for fun and winter driving.
5. Vote for politicians which put the people of the US first over corporations and foreign countries. This eliminates all current Republicans and Democrats.
Back in the early 70's this country had fair warning that we were much too dependent on foreign oil. So what did we do? Spent trillions of $$ to defend oil company profits. If a small fraction of that money had been spent on alternate energy R&D, our cars would be running on something other than gasoline, our environment would be cleaner, we wouldn't be bogged down in Iraq wasting hundreds of billions there and we could tell foreign oil producers to take their oil and shove it.
Back in the early 70's this country had fair warning that we were much too dependent on foreign oil. So what did we do? Spent trillions of $$ to defend oil company profits. If a small fraction of that money had been spent on alternate energy R&D, our cars would be running on something other than gasoline, our environment would be cleaner, we wouldn't be bogged down in Iraq wasting hundreds of billions there and we could tell foreign oil producers to take their oil and shove it.
I wish I only drove 350 miles a week. Unfortunately it is closer to 500 and this question really hits home. I bought this because it was THE most efficient vehicle except the Liberty CRD that could pull my boat. One ride in the CRD turned me off of that idea! Truthfully, if gas is $5 I will not want to use my boat anyway. I might sell the T4R and the boat and buy a VW Passat TDI. It would certainly make my wife happier too.
Boat uses about 6 gallons per hour going real easy over the entire Saturday. I can triple (maybe quadruple) that if I start playing hard and constantly run it. It is only a 20' with +/-340HP 350 CI V8 spinning a Volvo Penta Duoprop. I love it but it gets thirsty when it runs hard.
Between business and gas prices, who knows hwo much the boat may get used this year???
Boat uses about 6 gallons per hour going real easy over the entire Saturday. I can triple (maybe quadruple) that if I start playing hard and constantly run it. It is only a 20' with +/-340HP 350 CI V8 spinning a Volvo Penta Duoprop. I love it but it gets thirsty when it runs hard.
Between business and gas prices, who knows hwo much the boat may get used this year???
054Runner1
New member
pipspeak said:
Actually, I am an Economics and Finance Major and I am almost done with my degree. What most people don't realize is exactly how much profit oil companies are making. At a price of $60 a barrel, they charge (in Texas at least right now) about $2.78 a gallon. It only costs them maybe an estimated $1.00 per gallon to refine that oil Into a gallon of gas-This is according to a recent study we did in one of my classes. More information can be found online. So Essentially, The gas companies could charge as little as $1.70 and make good profits. But, because there really isn't a lot of actual regulation against the oil industry, they can charge whatever the hell they want, and we will pay it because we have to get around!!!! As I said before these prices are estimates so don't take the numbers to be exact. But you get the general Idea
Jeff Kleb
New member
It should also be mentioned that the government (state & federal) makes more on a gallon of gasoline (through taxation, of course) than Exxon, Mobil, BP or Shell. Also, they don't bear the cost of drilling, pumping, refining or storing it. Their "cut" is based on cents per gallon, so Uncle Sam actually never takes a hit when prices sometimes decrease.
:bash:
Last time we have the government micro-managing the petroleum industry, we had to wait in long lines to buy gasoline, could only get limited quantities on certain days of the week, paid high prices and our overall economy went into the dumper. Some of us over 40 recall those days. (Remember, it was the brilliant minds in Washington that brought us Medicare, Social Security and the IRS; and we all know how efficient those programs are.)
Should gasoline hit five bucks a gallon, whether or not you keep your 4Runner will be the least of your worries.
That being said, the lease on my '05 SR5 expires in January........and I hope that fuel does not go much above the current price of about $2.75 in our market. I plan on keeping my '02 Nissan Sentra (about 30 mpg) for commuting duties, no matter which direction gasoline prices go.
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If a person cannot afford the fuel for that particular vehicle, then they got to get a less expensive and more fuel efficient vehicle.
If they cannot afford that, either they got to make more money or ride a bicycle or just plain old walk.
Fact of life and simple as that!:
My 4Runner V8 gets better mileage than my older V6 Toyota pickup.
Maybe I'll cash them both in and buy a Prius.
If they cannot afford that, either they got to make more money or ride a bicycle or just plain old walk.
Fact of life and simple as that!
: My 4Runner V8 gets better mileage than my older V6 Toyota pickup.
Maybe I'll cash them both in and buy a Prius.
I drive 60 miles a day for work only, not counting any other after hours excursions, and between the Runner and the wife's Accord, I'd rather be in the Runner. I go through this ever year when the summer hits, and at the end of the day buying a more fuel friendly car isnt going to really save you much once. First the car, then the insurance, etc.
Not that being said, where was the option to park the Runner and buy a motorcycle?
Not that being said, where was the option to park the Runner and buy a motorcycle?
atomic punk
New member
You'd have to act waaaay before $5/gal if you wanted to get rid of the 4R for any sort of reasonable selling price. Otherwise you'd be one of a million people trying to sell their SUV and buy an economical car. And you can forget about buying a hybrid if gas gets that high, the waiting lists would be years long.
That was supposed to happen at $2 a gallon. And it was only a couple of years ago that everyone said the trucking industry would completely collapse in this country if diesel ever got to $2.50 a gallon. We're way past that now. So people deal with the costs and life goes on, even if they bitch about it.mole177 said:
Yes, that's true, in part because the demand is greater that supply. That's Econ 101. The oil companies are charging it because they can get it. It's akin to paying $1000-$1500 per seat for the Super Bowl. Although some people need a lot of gas because of a long commute, and they're the ones getting screwed, there are lot of other people that still take their long road trips or make lots of little trips to the store that could use less gas if they thought about it. Some of us do have a choice in how much gas we use, and even at $3, we're not choosing to use less. So the demand stays up and the prices go higher.054Runner1 said:
It's wrong that the oil companies control the supply as much as they do. "There's a shortage of summer gas." Why - didn't someone read the calendar?? No company has built a new gasoline refinery in the U.S. in many years - that would help, too.
And then there's our dependence on foreign oil, which controls the price per barrel on crude. China is also consuming a lot more crude in the last few years, so that's increasing demand at that level. We're pumping 80 million barrels per day out of the ground worldwide, and we're consuming every drop of it. The slightest blip in that supply makes crude prices go nuts.
Is there greed involved? Sure. But it's also a tough situation from an economic perspective, and Congress won't ever be able to fix that.
People will just deal with the prices. Look how fast we got used to $2 a gallon. $3 will come and go, too, as will future increases.
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