Let's talk Long Travel

[wfo9]

In an almost static condition like slow speed droop to max you would probably be fine. In a higher speed dynamic application where the suspension can go to full droop suddenly you have to deal with not only the static mass but the additional force caused by gravity which will be much higher force.

I get it, but I have always thought it was shock and application specific. I remember reading about stock travel Tacoma guys running limit straps when they did high speed off road. I just can't see the need for trails and a non race specific shock.

 

[Spenny]

Dang, my head is spinning with information and with every post i go to another vendors page to price out new suspension and get a little queasy in my wallet. Timely subject for me though, glad you brought it up @wfo9, was just reading older posts about it, especially when Metal Tech was developing their 5th Gen set up.

So, my final understanding is that a true long travel set up is impossible without significant modifications and a fat injection of money.

Very curious to see what your final decision is. I was kind of set on Metal Tech's stage 5 front and back kit, I also never had grand ideas of driving 110 mph over 3 foot whoops or being like BJ Baldwin, but I would like to comfortably go 50 or 60 over terrain though!

 

[wfo9]

Dang, my head is spinning with information and with every post i go to another vendors page to price out new suspension and get a little queasy in my wallet. Timely subject for me though, glad you brought it up @wfo9, was just reading older posts about it, especially when Metal Tech was developing their 5th Gen set up.

So, my final understanding is that a true long travel set up is impossible without significant modifications and a fat injection of money.

Very curious to see what your final decision is. I was kind of set on Metal Tech's stage 5 front and back kit, I also never had grand ideas of driving 110 mph over 3 foot whoops or being like BJ Baldwin, but I would like to comfortably go 50 or 60 over terrain though!

Not sure what you mean by Metal Tech stage 5 front and back kit. MT does have a rear long travel kit (which I have). It is fantastic and not very expensive. It is just shocks and springs + brake lines and extended bump stops. I highly recommend it.

They do not have their own LT kit for the front (which requires custom upper and lower control arms + axles). They do sell TC stuff though, so they may package that in some way. I've worked with them before when I purchased my rear setup and found them to be very knowledgeable. They have been doing mild Toyota builds for a long time and seem to know their stuff. I would not consider them a hard core custom shop though.

 

[Spenny]

Radflo 4Runner Stage 5 Suspension Kit

This is their "stage 5" kit, long travel rear and extended travel front coilovers, Radflow reservoir shocks front and back, MT lower links etc. This seemed to me like a good direction to go without breaking the bank and without really any fabrication or serious modification to the vehicle.

 

[wfo9]

Radflo 4Runner Stage 5 Suspension Kit

This is their "stage 5" kit, long travel rear and extended travel front coilovers, Radflow reservoir shocks front and back, MT lower links etc. This seemed to me like a good direction to go without breaking the bank and without really any fabrication or serious modification to the vehicle.

That is just a standard lift kit with UCAs up front and DOM lower links for the rear (not required).

There is nothing long travel about that kit (front or rear). You do get a tiny bit of additional down travel up front with extended travel coil overs. I would recommend putting together your own package. Do the MT LT rear springs and shocks... and some extended travel coil overs of your choice in the front (I still like ICONs). It will come out cheaper... and perform much better in crawling/trail situations. Personally, I don't see the need for remote res shocks on on a 5th gen without LT in the front. I guess if you plan on high speeds on really rough terrain. I don't think most people realize how far tire pressure goes for dealing with mild dirt conditions at moderate speeds.

 

[Jetboy]

FWIW - if you want long travel for the rocks and/or anything but desert high speed, I would seriously consider a SAS. For your money it should offer a lot more travel, stronger front end, and the ability to locate the wheel centers forward to wherever you wish. So you can run bigger tires with less lift.

If long travel IFS is the choice - it's really hard to make it work well with such a wide frame mount set. In an ideal world you'd chop the entire front end out and inboard the IFS mounting locations so you can run much longer a-arms like the ultra4 and similar setups. That gets super $$$ quick.

Outside of that IMO you pay a lot of $ for an inch or two of additional travel. What I would consider is having custom a-arms built that relocate the spindle ouboard by only 1-2" and forward by 1". Doing that will allow in the range of a 2.5-3" larger OD tire. I do think going up to a true 35 or 36" tire would offer a lot more in the rocks than an extra inch or two of travel.

Just tossing out some alternative ideas. Good luck.

 

[wfo9]

if you go all out 3.5" long travel in the front, and get the necessary associated goodies to go with it - you're only about a grand shy of a 1 ton solid axle swap in the front using a new housing.

if you want to go the garbage can rout and pick up a set of used 1 ton axles out of some truck that you happen to like - the SAS conversion starts to look pretty good, and if you do it right is exceptionally streetable. the only issue is, who do you know that is exceptional at fabricating custom front suspensions.

I've been down this rabbit hole for a long time now, and i know personally a significant portion of people in the US offroad industry - and i can say without a doubt there are only 4 people in the country that i can name off the top of my head that i would let fab up a solid axle link set on my truck.



the adjusters alone won't cut it, to get anywhere close you'll need to pair those with bypass shocks

FWIW - if you want long travel for the rocks and/or anything but desert high speed, I would seriously consider a SAS. For your money it should offer a lot more travel, stronger front end, and the ability to locate the wheel centers forward to wherever you wish. So you can run bigger tires with less lift.

If long travel IFS is the choice - it's really hard to make it work well with such a wide frame mount set. In an ideal world you'd chop the entire front end out and inboard the IFS mounting locations so you can run much longer a-arms like the ultra4 and similar setups. That gets super $$$ quick.

Outside of that IMO you pay a lot of $ for an inch or two of additional travel. What I would consider is having custom a-arms built that relocate the spindle ouboard by only 1-2" and forward by 1". Doing that will allow in the range of a 2.5-3" larger OD tire. I do think going up to a true 35 or 36" tire would offer a lot more in the rocks than an extra inch or two of travel.

Just tossing out some alternative ideas. Good luck.

Forgot to respond to this one... (and now a new one along the same lines)

SAS is not in my current plans for this rig for several reasons. I have that type of truck and really enjoy it for what it is... The 4r is a totally different build for me. Also, the beauty of going IFS LT is that it can be easily removed and has good resale value if I decide it is not what I really want. It will bolt on to so many trucks... I never seem to have any issue selling my used modern Toyota stuff.

Yes, it is high cost with potentially small returns. I'm still in the "is it worth it stage".

 

[wfo9]

[MENTION=49966]mikey's2010SR5[/MENTION]
[MENTION=76550]cbielat[/MENTION]

Curious to get input from you guys. Is it worth it....

 

[Jetboy]

Still don't fully understand the need for limit straps. The same basic shocks work without straps. So why the need with a longer control arm and UCA? I get that some shocks require them because of the internals and I also understand for the need for high speed jumping.... but 2" of leverage pulling down makes that much of a difference in typical use? I would throw them on... but just seems optional from a common sense perspective.

I think it has to do with wanting to stop the down travel before it bottoms the shock - depending on the setup you may have issues with the CV angles before you reach the shock's internal bump stop. Limit straps are super easy to setup and pretty cheap. I'd do some testing with a jack to see if there's issues that would warrant use or not after you have the LT installed.

 

[cbielat]

I feel it's worth it if you do higher speed runs or if your style of trail riding involves a bit more rock crawling like I have up here in the Northeast. Pair it with higher quality shocks and it feels great. I love having both front and rear long travel. It's like a spider crawling through rock gardens. It's also worth it if you want to spend a lot of money. I'm already needing to replace a uniball or two along with some bushings. A LOT more maintenance too.

 

[mikey's2010SR5]

So the guy on 120 is running the new All-Pro kit with Fox DSCs all around, he also swapped in a Currie Rock Jock in the rear. I have yet to see it rolling since he has not updated his thread in almost two months. I am trying to get a hold of him, since he is local to me, to potentially buy the extra kit he has and check the rig out.

I am going long travel because I know I need to replace my lower control arms and weld in the alignment cam tab gussets. I also need to replace my shocks and I hate my UCAs. So why not do it right. I too came across some extra spending money and want to update my truck to better handle out in the dessert.

Is it expensive......hell yea it is. Is it worth it? Don't know yet but I think it will on the trails. I will get back to you on this one.

Reliable....from my research on a couple different sites this is what I get....Yes going long travel requires more maintenance then your OEM stuff. And I have also seen CV breaks go down since angles are not as great. Maintenance is not a big deal to me since this is not a daily driver in the slightest and I do enjoy working on the truck. My truck is now a fun rig for exploring and having fun.

As far as Metal Tech....Yeah they are a pain. I have been ready to order my kit and they have gone MIA. I might just be making a phone call. And they will do Radflo as well, I did get a quote with the kit and Radflos.

3.5" vs 2"...what is the truck used for. High speed dessert? Slow speed trails/rocks? Everything in between? For me I most likely will be going 2" because there are yet to be fenders made for the 5th Gen. And like Will [MENTION=104049]marshal[/MENTION] I will just cut my stock fenders, probably about 2" and then deal with it. Granted if the time goes on and I have yet to purchase a kit and the fenders become available I most likely go Camburg 3.5" with Fox DSCs.

Limit straps....will prevent bind in the UCA/LCA/CVs since the Coilover will actually have more down travel then stock.

For the rear I am kind of up in the air on this one. The LT rear from Metal Tech is nice but you severely limit the up travel and this hurts me because I am heavy and I carry a lot of weight when going camping therefor at the higher speeds I am more likely to bottom. My goal is to have more of a balanced system and that would probably just mean running an extended travel rear shock with the ICON Overland Springs. The rear has way more travel in stock form the the front. Down the road I would revisit and see if there is a way to run a longer shock without sacrificing as much up travel. Maybe do a cantilever rear since I have the room under the rear bumper.

 

[wfo9]

So the guy on 120 is running the new All-Pro kit with Fox DSCs all around, he also swapped in a Currie Rock Jock in the rear. I have yet to see it rolling since he has not updated his thread in almost two months. I am trying to get a hold of him, since he is local to me, to potentially buy the extra kit he has and check the rig out.

I am going long travel because I know I need to replace my lower control arms and weld in the alignment cam tab gussets. I also need to replace my shocks and I hate my UCAs. So why not do it right. I too came across some extra spending money and want to update my truck to better handle out in the dessert.

Is it expensive......hell yea it is. Is it worth it? Don't know yet but I think it will on the trails. I will get back to you on this one.

Reliable....from my research on a couple different sites this is what I get....Yes going long travel requires more maintenance then your OEM stuff. And I have also seen CV breaks go down since angles are not as great. Maintenance is not a big deal to me since this is not a daily driver in the slightest and I do enjoy working on the truck. My truck is now a fun rig for exploring and having fun.

As far as Metal Tech....Yeah they are a pain. I have been ready to order my kit and they have gone MIA. I might just be making a phone call. And they will do Radflo as well, I did get a quote with the kit and Radflos.

3.5" vs 2"...what is the truck used for. High speed dessert? Slow speed trails/rocks? Everything in between? For me I most likely will be going 2" because there are yet to be fenders made for the 5th Gen. And like Will [MENTION=104049]marshal[/MENTION] I will just cut my stock fenders, probably about 2" and then deal with it. Granted if the time goes on and I have yet to purchase a kit and the fenders become available I most likely go Camburg 3.5" with Fox DSCs.

Limit straps....will prevent bind in the UCA/LCA/CVs since the Coilover will actually have more down travel then stock.

For the rear I am kind of up in the air on this one. The LT rear from Metal Tech is nice but you severely limit the up travel and this hurts me because I am heavy and I carry a lot of weight when going camping therefor at the higher speeds I am more likely to bottom. My goal is to have more of a balanced system and that would probably just mean running an extended travel rear shock with the ICON Overland Springs. The rear has way more travel in stock form the the front. Down the road I would revisit and see if there is a way to run a longer shock without sacrificing as much up travel. Maybe do a cantilever rear since I have the room under the rear bumper.

I've sort of lost the wind in my sails for this (for the time being)... Mainly because I should be spending the time and money (mainly time) on my trial rig to get it running and dialed in a little better... and possibly get some new tires for it.

As for limit straps, I thought the shocks themselves are the same specs as extended travel (compressed and extended lengths match) as they sit in the same position... just leveraged and valved differently. The additional travel comes from the arm length and motion ratios/geometry, not really the shock travel.

As far as the comment about losing down travel with the MT kit... I would not worry about it. I've heard this claim on here before and it was someone talking very authoritatively (but it was pure speculation) . You can run the heavy springs and you should not have any issues. I don't think I have ever notice my truck bottoming out (I don't carry much weight on a regular basis but I also only run the med springs). It's just not something you will notice on the trail or road from my experience. Now if you do high speed desert, and hit big stuff.... it might be a problem. That is not my thing, so I have no experience with that. I do hit some chunky double track dirt roads at about 45mph with no issues. You could also check with bimrunner... I think he runs a bunch of weight with the same setup...

I can honestly say the LT rear has been the best upgrade I've done. Amazing results on the trail, night and day difference. That is what got me dreaming of LT in the front, but I think I'm going to hold off for a while... Still might go that direction eventually... but a few other fun projects just popped up for now. I'm going to go ahead and gusset my spindles... and see where things go.

 

[GzTEP]

Ok. Here is an attempt to get a useful (at least to me) thread going. I'm so bored with all the same old threads about..... here

So, my truck pretty much already does what I need it to do. It will go just about anywhere that is reasonable without any issues. I also have a trail toy for doing the truly insane... BUT, something still drives me to keep making the 4r more capable. It's just fun to keep evolving it and I recently ran across some unexpected bonus funds....So why the heck not. It makes me smile and forget about negative things, so I'm going to keep doing it.

Several factors have kept me from doing LT in the front.
1. Cost for the front with some gussets and shop install figure $6200 ish adding bypass add another $1500 . Price is For all new parts
2. Reliability very reliable. Loctite on some stuff , torque and mark your bolts. and nuts.
3. No ability to run a sway bar

I'm not too concerned with any of those now. Mainly #3 for road use, but I think the wider track + some adjustable dampening coil overs should make it decent on the road. Shouldn't be too bad. Some people don't like any type of roll though.

I'm not looking to do anything high speed at all. My main desire for LT is more drop (down travel) and better articulation and stability in the rocks. I would also like to possibly add a little more lift without bad CV angles (probably run 4"). I'm not very concerned with up travel and don't mind limiting it with some bump stops. The 8" LT coilovers usually max out at +3" of lift and running at the max height will limit your down travel and ride harsh. Stock bumps work fine. That's a lot of money to spend to crawl with it.


The TC 2" kit plus some wheel spacers for the rear is my first thought, but 3.5" might be the way to go. There does not seem to be much info out there... Here are some questions to get the conversation going.

1. Anyone know of a good vendor to work with on a LT setup. I would obviously be doing the install myself. I just need advice on the components. I figured I might try calling MT.... Sdhq

2. How much down travel is approximately gained with the TC 2" setup vs 3.5. I know the total travel numbers... But I'll most likely need to extend my bump stops... About 2" for the 2 and 3" for 3.5

3. How do you build up new longer CVs and what is the best choice for the axle vendor total chaos or camburg sell them. I believe both are Summer's brothers made. You rebuild them with the extended shafts.

4. What about tie rods both kits include extensions

5. Limit straps... What shocks require vs don't require them. I'm looking for max down travel. All kits require them

6. What 5th gens have LT up front now or have it in the build plans. I think I'm staying stock length up front with tc uppers and a top three brand Coilover

7. Clearance. who thinks the fenders could be used without modification. I'll be running my 34" MTRs, which clear now when the alignment is right.
:cheers:

no chance stock will clear offroad .

 

[A.Wilson013]

[MENTION=104049]marshal[/MENTION] without looking at my sig and classifying me as a, "fan boy" why do you think Icon products wouldn't hold up to an LT setup? I mean, I am with you, their normal stuff has no business being run with LT, but what about their stuff they're running on their Ultra4 truck? They seem to be holding up just fine...

My buddy has an LT tacoma running Icon zeta shocks and said it's a HUGE upgrade over his old King setup. He lives minutes from Pismo and runs the piss out of his truck.

I see you referenced build quality... What's wrong with it?

To the OP, Tacomaworld has muchhhh more info on LT kits, and most should be applicable to the 5th gen 4Runner... May be worth sifting through all their "BS threads" for relevant info.

 

[marshal]

[MENTION=104049]marshal[/MENTION] without looking at my sig and classifying me as a, "fan boy" why do you think Icon products wouldn't hold up to an LT setup? I mean, I am with you, their normal stuff has no business being run with LT, but what about their stuff they're running on their Ultra4 truck? They seem to be holding up just fine...

My buddy has an LT tacoma running Icon zeta shocks and said it's a HUGE upgrade over his old King setup. He lives minutes from Pismo and runs the piss out of his truck.

I see you referenced build quality... What's wrong with it?

To the OP, Tacomaworld has muchhhh more info on LT kits, and most should be applicable to the 5th gen 4Runner... May be worth sifting through all their "BS threads" for relevant info.

I am unfamiliar with their zeta shocks, which is my own fault - however I can't believe someone that would say they are better than Kings that are hand built with the most premium of premium components.

Their build quality was pretty poor for a long time, individual components would break on their shocks and people would be left stranded. A well publicized break was the set of shocks that Expedition Overland had on their 100 series land cruiser that for the most part - sheared right in half.

I am not a fan of their control arms in any form or fashion, the way they have them designed to clamp their joints is not something I'm fond of. As well their exposure of the thread in a inclement weather environment is a perfect storm for corrosion and bimetallic corrosion issues.

It's not junk, like radflo is - but i have a bad taste in my mouth from them and they're not in the same league as king or fox. I also don't like that every Icon kit comes with an Affliction t-shirt and a set of white oakley's

 

[wfo9]

no chance stock will clear offroad .

Stock what? Did anyone talk about that...? Did you read the part about adjusting bump stops....

I'm well aware of what it takes to clear tires offroad.

 

[marshal]

Stock what? Did anyone talk about that...? Did you read the part about adjusting bump stops....

I'm well aware of what it takes to clear tires offroad.

I don't think you are. I think you're just a well versed liar with a scale model of a 4Runner.

 

[wfo9]

For the rear I am kind of up in the air on this one. The LT rear from Metal Tech is nice but you severely limit the up travel and this hurts me because I am heavy and I carry a lot of weight when going camping therefor at the higher speeds I am more likely to bottom. My goal is to have more of a balanced system and that would probably just mean running an extended travel rear shock with the ICON Overland Springs. The rear has way more travel in stock form the the front. Down the road I would revisit and see if there is a way to run a longer shock without sacrificing as much up travel. Maybe do a cantilever rear since I have the room under the rear bumper.

One more thing related to this... I originally ran some cheap junk procomp shocks on my rear with the LT springs as an experiment. This sacrificed no up travel, but gave quite a bit more more down than a typical std lift shock... It flexed like crazy and the wheel tucked to extreme levels, but this caused me to drag my rear all over the place on the trails (granted I had a stock bumper at the time).

So just be aware that when you add down travel on a solid axle.. you are also adding articulated up travel to the opposing wheel (even without a change in shock compressed length). So adding 3" bump stops... and adding 5-6" of down travel nets out to a very similar articulated up travel. Just something to keep in mind....

So far I have found up travel to make almost no difference in trail conditions. It naturally takes care of itself on solid axle. IFS is obviously more of an independent equation and I'm still trying to get my head around it even though I have been running this truck for over 2 years now.

 

[wfo9]

I don't think you are. I think you're just a well versed liar with a scale model of a 4Runner.

A true scale model with true to scale components would be really cool.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Stock what? Did anyone talk about that...? Did you read the part about adjusting bump stops....

I'm well aware of what it takes to clear tires offroad.

I think he meant stock fenders