1engineer
Moderator
If you follow that philosophy when buying things, your whole life will be filled with disappointment.
Nowhere near the advertised ground clearance
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If you follow that philosophy when buying things, your whole life will be filled with disappointment.
volpe30
New member
I hear what you're saying. But my mind works just the opposite. I approached their literature as a start, or go by, that had to be then further verified and investigated. As Reagan often said about treaty verification with the Soviets, "Trust, but Verify!" My whole career has been in the military and law enforcement--must be the root of my cynical approach.
delloro
New member
I agree. But querying Toyota is an exercise in futility. It's like living in a Nietszche story.
SierraMare
Member
1Engineer would seem to be an apologist for Toyota. They list 9.6" as the ground clearance, and it isn't for the KDSS option. How hard is it to put an asterisk by that number if some options decrease that? It fooled me, guess I should have brought my tape measure to the dealership last January. And why would anyone care about ground clearance, approach/departure angle, break over,....? Ummm, maybe they off-road and such measurements might be part of something called capability. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a scientist who appreciates numbers, precision, and accuracy. Shame on me...
Intruder
New member
If you're really off roading then a set of steel skidplates to replace the thin factory skids should be one of your first priorities.
I do "rocky off roading and deep snow driving" too. Never noticed that ground clearance number to make much of a difference. You either make it over an obstacle or you don't. With an extra inch of clearance you might get a foot further in deep snow before you get stuck.
Pretty sure they also only list the fuel economy numbers for the absolute base SR5, which also happens to be the lightest option. TE w/KDSS will be heavier, therefore slightly less fuel economy, and the Limited has AWD, which again will result in worse fuel economy.
Do you bring your tape measure and protractor out to the trail to check if you have the clearance, breakover, etc. to clear an obstacle? KDSS will not be your limit on approach and departure angles - those will be dictated by your front bumper and trailer hitch. Even if you had that extra inch or so of clearance you're still going to run into obstacles that would require another inch of clearance. I've wheeled with SR5s and Limiteds before and have yet to come across an obstacle they cleared but I couldn't simply because of a slight difference in clearance. It's called choosing the line appropriate to your vehicle.
1engineer
Moderator
I'm a realist who understands people who get hurt feelings because they weren't paying attention and assumed something.
Toyota doesn't list that units equipped with KDSS have more articulation off road than non equipped vehicles. Should I be upset? Maybe call Toyota? Get real.
I don't know about you guys but I have yet to go off road based on numbers.
So you lose a bit of ground clearance. You gain a bit of articulation. Which is more important off road? And the first one of you who asks about the KDSS equipped vehicles having more articulation without searching first loses any shred of credibility you might have left.
SierraMare
Member
Over reaching, but good for a lol
wfo9
New member
Yep, pretty much all your issues with clearance will be further back or more forward.
I guess it could make a small difference in a sinking situation, but it will most likely be the least of your worries....
There is science and numbers... then there is the real world. I find a combination of the two works best.
Toyota should give more accurate information though... but they make mistakes like the rest of the world.
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Well they also don't list a fording depth for the vehicle as well as some other measurements that would be useful to us... hell the FSM has two "Secret" models that I've never seen or heard of for 5th gens.
The super rare and secret "S-Runner" & "X-Runner", there's an internet cookie who finds out what those two 5th gen sub-models are! (Hint- It's not the Tacoma X-Runner, I already looked.)
But yeah, Toyota is weird with some stuff...
The super rare and secret "S-Runner" & "X-Runner", there's an internet cookie who finds out what those two 5th gen sub-models are! (Hint- It's not the Tacoma X-Runner, I already looked.)
But yeah, Toyota is weird with some stuff...
Toyota lists the ground clearance on page 23 of the brochure here -
http://www.toyota.com/content/ebrochure/2016/4runner_ebrochure.pdf
Trail Premium is listed at 9.6". There is no comment that says that KDSS reduces clearance. I fail to see the argument that it is up to the buyer to do further research when the Toyota manual lists 9.6" as the clearance for Trail Premium models.
http://www.toyota.com/content/ebrochure/2016/4runner_ebrochure.pdf
Trail Premium is listed at 9.6". There is no comment that says that KDSS reduces clearance. I fail to see the argument that it is up to the buyer to do further research when the Toyota manual lists 9.6" as the clearance for Trail Premium models.
jrandom
New member
To clarify that is a "sales brochure" not a "manual"
Did it ever occur that this is an average ground clearance and not the lowest point on the vehicle? No where does it state that this measurement is the lowest contact point on the vehicle. In fact I would guess to say that the bottom of the LCA is lower to the ground than the front skid.
If you also note in the brochure it says "up to 9.6 inches of ground clearance" That to me does not say nor imply the lowest point either.
Really sorry you feel duped.
Just curious. Have you ever gotten 21 MPG? The best I ever got, 20.54, once and never again.
Here's how ground clearance is measured https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ride_height
Doesn't leave room for error.
On any model without KDSS, the listed clearance matches exactly the lowest point on the chassis, which is the front plate.
Contacted the dealer and they gave me a BS as an explanation. I'll contact corporate to put a note in there about ground clearance for models equipped with KDSS. But I don't think they will do anything. The omission is intentional, to make the numbers look good.
It's mind boggling to add a system that would help in uneven off-road terrain and take from another factor, equally important on the same type of terrain. They screwed this one up and they're trying to cover it up.
For anyone interested in buying a 4Runner for mild off-roading, forget the KDSS on the TE or get a TRD PRO. For more serious off-roading, prepare to sink a lot more money into it, no matter what model you get.
For the regular roads, the KDSS will negligibly improve handling. When breaking or accelerating, it still leans like a freaking boat... ahem should have said truck :lmao:
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1engineer
Moderator
Seriously you are quoting Wikipedia as the definitive source and binding regulatory body for ground clearance?
I'll be sure to call Toyota and tell them they have to change their ways, Wiki says so.
What about the KDSS having more usable articulation than non KDSS equipped vehicles? Are you gonna trash that too?
Just stop, admit you bought something you don't like (using KDSS as an excuse is kinda weak) and go buy something else. Seriously.
wfo9
New member
Personally not a huge KDSS fan, but it does have real benefits (especially for a mild dual purpose rig).
I still don't get where you guys are coming from saying ground clearance under the wheels is equally important... It hardly matters at all in most off-road situations. The proper technique is not just to plow through terrain relying on just the ground clearance to make it.. I don't have KDSS, but have wheeled many hours with other 5th gens who have it.. The ground clearance in that area has never been a problem once... That is real world, not some stupid numbers on paper...
Now deep mud, sand, or snow... A single lowered edge is not going to make any difference... you are screwed anyway. Rocks and hard obstacles is where the low hanging edges matter the most.
Their definition...
any part of a vehicle.... So your shock mounts.. are technically the lowest point... but again, anything under the wheels hardly matters. Move on.
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I'm sorry I touched a sensible nerve. How do I know that? Well, you only read the first line of my post. I said the wiki definition matches real life measurements for all but KDSS equipped 4Runners.
No, I'm not IN LOVE with the truck. Why would I be?
So far it gets me to places that I love, not without denting the buttery front skid though. I wish it was one inch higher, from the factory, as advertised. I can't stand manufacturers who lie on the spec sheet.
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