Quick Q: Sell or Keep '98 4Runner 213k, HG blown + more

[984runnerguy]

Hi all,

Thanks in advance. I think I know the answer to this but wanted to get peoples' opinions since these Toyotas tend to run like tops. Consider the dirty combustion, cylinder misfire, and age, the engine still pulls very well.

My 98 2wd SR5 3.4LV6 4Runner with 213k miles needs a lot of work:
- beginning of a head gasket going (10ppm hydrocarbons in the radiator. Very common on this gen due to poor design. Mechanic said full HG failures in the 3rd gen tend to measure 100-200 ppm so I have "some time")
- needs all belts replaced, valve cover gaskets, cam/crankshaft seals. So a full water pump kit. Parts are $300
- water pump is leaking. Included in the above.
- radiator hoses in bad shape. $20.
- needs sway bar link kits. $50
- will fail CA smog in August (add at least $250 for a new cat if that's even the problem)

The rest of the truck is in good shape given the age.

My opinion is chance it and pay the $2.5-3k to get another 75-100k until I have kids and then sell it to a mechanic.
- 3rd light out
- power antenna hosed (and has been for years)

This is a ton of labor and I don't work on my own car. I live in the Bay Area where I could likely negotiate to $80/hr labor but we're talking 10-15 hours minimum regardless of if I do the HG job properly and replace everything or just drop in a rebuilt motor.

The car has been in 45 states and Canada and Mexico and is my first car (I'm 31) and has sentimental value. All local mechanics I've talked to said the work is "up to me." Only 1 outright said that he would not put in the $2.5k-3k it needs since the transmission could fail at any time (again, though, no symptoms on my end and the car has never been stressed/driven hard).

I just wanted to check on opinions about:

Sell it/keep it? (I lean toward fixing since there's no evidence of strawberry milkshake. I am the original owner and kept fluids changed but fixed everything else as it came up, not preventatively)
how much would something like this even be worth considering what, 15 hours of labor + parts? I've had a cash offer at $1500.

I'm in the Bay Area, CA if it matters. Yodaman is probably out as far as I can tell.

 

[Mike&Ike]

What kind of reliable car can you buy for 2500-3000 let alone 1500. The way I look at it is you can put forth the money now to get it in tip top shape and get a ton more miles out of it. Fixing it is better then having a car payment. I will drive my 4runner until someone says I can legally drive it no more. If I have to put a motor into it I will because I just hated making payments on a previous vehicle. No more vehicle loans for me.

 

[984runnerguy]

What kind of reliable car can you buy for 2500-3000 let alone 1500. The way I look at it is you can put forth the money now to get it in tip top shape and get a ton more miles out of it. Fixing it is better then having a car payment. I will drive my 4runner until someone says I can legally drive it no more. If I have to put a motor into it I will because I just hated making payments on a vehicle.

Fair enough. Just making sure I'm not being an idiot. I think 75-100k is very possible as long as the transmission stays together.

 

[Mike&Ike]

Fair enough. Just making sure I'm not being an idiot. I think 75-100k is very possible as long as the transmission stays together.

I think there is people here with 300k on their stock transmissions and they are still going strong.

 

[984runnerguy]

So the only test for the HG was the appearance of hydrocarbons in the radiator. I don't know that it is definitive. What other test do I have done? Pressure test? Compression test? 3rd cylinder is misfiring, too.

Maybe the HG isn't bad, something else accounts for the hydrocarbons and the ~$1k to do the water pump kit and everything else would be worth it to try to get another year or 2 out of it.

It does shake at startup at idle and smooths out in 30 secs at the most which may or may not be a symptom of a declining HG.

I'm wondering if maybe I just have a really bad water pump (it has a bad, bad leak and I'm refilling my reservoir every 2 days or so).

Thanks for all the help thus far.

 

[BrianSD_42]

10ppm hydrocarbons in the radiator. Very common on this gen due to poor design. Mechanic said full HG failures in the 3rd gen tend to measure 100-200 ppm so I have "some time"

Dude not to knock your mechanic but who is he to question the engine design? Does he design engines for a living ...?

My opinion is that the 3rd gen V6 is AWESOME. Yes the heads can go out at 200k miles. That is about 50-75k miles farther than most of the cars on the road.

My head went out at 200k miles. I was thankful for the reliable truck that lasted so long. I replaced the head and moved on. My engine block is still strong and I'm now at 220k miles.

A lot of people on this forum talk as if engine heads are supposed to last more than 200k miles ... by whose standards? Not by American car standards, and not by Toyota standards.

Yes some do last long ..... but it is VERY NORMAL to have a head or head-gasket go bad at 200k miles. The main block is often fine, especially if the truck has been taken care of well.

/// rant layball:

 

[984runnerguy]

I'm fully understanding of the fact that the car has served me very well at that 213k is more than reasonable for HG lift. The "design" comment was from some reading I've done that states there are two different metals coming together and that it can account for slightly reduced reliability over the life of the gaskets.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Compression test? 3rd cylinder is misfiring, too.

Yes on the compression test.

My suggestion to you .... create a new thread here in third gen section titled

"need local Bay-Area help, can someone help me diagnose my coolant issue?"

There are several nice guys who could probably help you out with a free diagnosis for a few beers.

 

[BrianSD_42]

These are the heads that my non-dealer (but Toyota certified) Toyota mechanic installed.

$575 Each | Complete Aftermarket Japanese Heads for 96-02 4Runner by J.E.

Link -----> Japan Engines



Mechanics will want to charge you for a rebuild. $2500-$4000 depending on what they say. Don't do this. ---> Don't do this.

If you must spend $2000 then either go with complete aftermarket heads like these or just do an engine swap for a low mileage engine from a rear end collision salvage.

Also be sure to use the Toyota gasket kit. Yes it is expensive but you can order it online yourself from "Camelback Toyota Online Parts" <--- gooogle it


layball:

 

[LittleCaesar]

Get a compression and a leak down test performed.

What CELs are being stored?

A used auto is good for the owner up to the point where repair costs exceed value, whether that value is sentimental or not.

Having to agree with Brian, your mechanic needs not to question the engine design of the 5VZ.

 

[Illicitdream]

I think there is people here with 300k on their stock transmissions and they are still going strong.

With transmission just make sure to change the fluid properly and drop and clean the pan and screen or get a new screen. I used Amsoil ATF and cleaned my magnets and screen and my transmission runs top. Also maybe look into a transmission cooler or changing out the radiator so often so you dont get the dreaded pink milkshake effect. Only thing replaced on my engine majorly is the timing belt. I'm at 236k and still running strong. The design of the 5vz is awesome. There's a 4runner on here I believe if the guy is still updating his thread, that has reached 750k miles on stock block and tranny. Just my 2 cents. I will always own a 3rd gen 4runner. It's been the most dependable truck I've ever owned.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Here is my cracked head thread -----> http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/88502-head-gasket-fail-199-840-now-what.html


It was $$$ but if you can find someone to do the work then it really wouldn't be that expensive. As I already mentioned I have JE heads, one of the only people here to go down that route.

At $575 each for a complete head it is often a much better solution (and longer lasting) than "rebuilding" the factory head with non-Toyota parts.

The shop that installed mine builds a lot of trucks for the Baja scene down here. He says that he puts these heads on 4-6 Toyotas a month. And that he has not had any failures (I assume within a reasonable period of time)

 

[BrianSD_42]

- beginning of a head gasket going (10ppm hydrocarbons in the radiator. Very common on this gen due to poor design. Mechanic said full HG failures in the 3rd gen tend to measure 100-200 ppm so I have "some time")

I will also add that unless your truck is misfiring or overheating ..... JUST DRIVE IT.

Do a compression test if you need peace of mind but I would ABSOLUTELY NOT preemptively replace/rebuild the engine if it runs mostly fine:
* without any misfires
* no major coolant loss
* no CEL or flashing CEL
* no overheating

How do you know it will fail smog?

Have you searched for a Toyota specialist (non-dealer) mechanic or All-Japanese mechanic in the bay area?

There has to be at least one good All-Japanese mechanic in the bay area who knows Toyotas really well. Take it there and get a second opinion. Don't tell them what the other guy said, just ask them to do a general inspection and say you are worried about smog.

 

[984runnerguy]

Answers in bold below

I will also add that unless your truck is misfiring or overheating ..... JUST DRIVE IT.
It has overheated but it's related to having lost coolant.

Do a compression test if you need peace of mind but I would ABSOLUTELY NOT preemptively replace/rebuild the engine if it runs mostly fine:
* without any misfires 3rd cylinder is misfiring
* no major coolant loss? I'm losing a full reservoir every 2-3 days. Water pump is bad. Not sure on the HG given the hydrocarbons in the radiator
* no CEL or flashing CEL Sometimes a P0120 but I haven't addressed it. Not currently on, haven't had one in 6 months
* no overheating

How do you know it will fail smog? Passed NoX by 1 point last time, haven't had a new cat in it in 6 years

Have you searched for a Toyota specialist (non-dealer) mechanic or All-Japanese mechanic in the bay area? I should, trying to find someone good in the East bay if possible

There has to be at least one good All-Japanese mechanic in the bay area who knows Toyotas really well. Take it there and get a second opinion. Don't tell them what the other guy said, just ask them to do a general inspection and say you are worried about smog.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Is CYL constantly misfiring (flashing yellow CEL) or just ocassionally (once a week, month etc) misfiring?

Btw I haven't had a new cat -ever- and mine still passes smog. They often outlast the engine.

 

[JBurt]

If your water pump is bad you should do the timing belt at the same time, depending on if it was done before. Just my $.02.

I vote fix it and drive it. It is much cheaper than a new car and will give you more peace of mind.