Rear Axle Seals: The Ultimate Information and Replacement Thread (3rd gen)
- Thread starter BigFishAllDay
- Start date
mtbtim
Elite Member
Just like what happened to me. You noticed your brake pads are covered in gear oil.
Reinout
Member
Yes I did. There wasn't much in there that wasn't covered in gear oil.
mtbtim
Elite Member
Bummer. [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] is doing the final touches on 3 videos we're putting out that will show people how to do this repair on ABS and Non-ABS rear ends along with an extra video dedicated to just the press work that shows other ways to accomplish the pressing with some items you can get a local hardware store.
To do the repair all on your own, it does require an investment in tools depending how you tackle it. Our video shows using a Harbor Freight press, a special axle tool sold by Durasolid and a bearing splitter.
If you don't want to invest in any special tools, at the very least pull the axles yourself because it's very easy and find a machine shop that knows what they're doing and have them do the press work for you.
Reinout
Member
The process of pulling the axle was stupid easy. I was also able to get the seals from Toyota (got two sets, one for each side) as well as the PCV which i've been wanting to replace. All out the door about $80.
This is possibly a mistake on my part, but I opted to not worry about the bearings and do just the seals. Getting them in was a pain until I decided for giggles to use the axle itself to start the inner seal. perfect. Used the mounting bolts to slowly get it started. Then tapped slowly and patiently around the seal to get it all the way down. There's a audible difference when the seal sits all the way against the inside.
So far, so good. Of course it's only been 4 days.
If it happens again I'll have the bearings, or invest in the tools depending on cost, pressed in.
mtbtim
Elite Member
I don't know how much research you did on this repair but Toyota redesigned the axle seals a while back and the lip of the new seal now sits 2mm more inboard than the original seal. So, the lip of the seal is now riding pretty close (around 2mm away) from the non-polished bevel of the retainer. If your bearings have some in and out play, which they probably do, you might sometimes be riding on the non-polished bevel and your seals will fail again. Side to side play in the bearing will also over time wear out the seal. Excessive bearing play is the cause of many axle seal failures so that's why people recommend replacing the bearings too when doing this job.
You mentioned in your earlier post that your brakes were completely contaminated with gear oil. This means the gear oil was surrounding the bearing for quite a while until it made it into the brakes. The bearing is lubricated with grease, not gear oil. Another reason why it's recommended to replace the bearings when an axle seal fails is because the gear oil will wash out some or all of the bearing grease depending on how long the bearing was exposed to the gear oil.
If I were you, I'd pull the ABS sensors periodically and check to see if gear oil is getting past the seals. You jack up the rear end, pull the sensors, use a headlamp or flashlight to look into the sensor hole at the ABS gear while turning the wheel if you still have it on or turning the axle if you took the tire off. The ABS gear will work like a water wheel and will lap up any gear oil in the axle tube. It's easier to see in there if you remove the tires.
SDmtnbkr
Member
So my truck has 220k miles on it, but rides very smooth down the road. I just picked up an e-Locker and 4Runner housing (because I didn't want to deal with modifying my original housing).... should I do the axle bearings just because?
The obvious thought that I have is that I should because I'm gonna have everything apart, but at the same time, I feel like the expense is pretty high for something that I don't need at the moment.
My other thought (and why I'm asking here for those who have done it) is that getting the axles out looks fairly easy, especially with the tools and equipment I have available. So if I forego doing them now and they go bad in say 10k miles it won't be much more of an effort to get them out and do them then and I'm only out a couple bucks in seals.
Unfortunately I don't have extensive history to see if they have every been done before. Any help would be great.
The obvious thought that I have is that I should because I'm gonna have everything apart, but at the same time, I feel like the expense is pretty high for something that I don't need at the moment.
My other thought (and why I'm asking here for those who have done it) is that getting the axles out looks fairly easy, especially with the tools and equipment I have available. So if I forego doing them now and they go bad in say 10k miles it won't be much more of an effort to get them out and do them then and I'm only out a couple bucks in seals.
Unfortunately I don't have extensive history to see if they have every been done before. Any help would be great.
mtbtim
Elite Member
You're right, getting the axles out is easy. If you had a press and special tools to do all the work yourself, I'd say definitely replace the bearings and seals before putting it back together. But, you could also find a local machine shop that does good work and doesn't charge an arm and a leg and get the press work done that way.
To save money, you can reuse both retainers by swapping the positions. Put the one that was against the bearing in the position where it meets up with the axle seal and then put the one that was originally meeting up with the axle seal against the bearing. The reason for the swap is the seal lip wears a mark into the retainer and it's best not to reuse it in this position. You can also reuse the ABS sensor rotor.
You mention if you slap everything together and get a failure 10k down the road it's no big deal because it's easy to pull the axles. This is true but what if it happens when you are on a road trip and are 1000+ miles from home? Not good. You also mention if you do experience an axle seal failure it will just be a couple bucks in seals. Please read my response above about just replacing the seals. Many that have gone before you have done exactly this and then had the headache of another axle seal failure, contaminated brakes and the hassle to do the job all over again.
It's your truck, your time and your money but your attempt to save money upfront might bite you in the ass later on down the road and maybe at a time that's none too convenient.
SDmtnbkr
Member
Thanks for the response, this is a great point of view. I actually have access to a big shop press, I just don't have the axle removal tool to separate them from the drum. I guess I could just ask in the SoCal forum to see if anyone has one I could borrow, or weld up a janky version of one, just for this job.
You just convinced me to do them all, thanks again!
mtbtim
Elite Member
You're welcome. Too bad you weren't closer to me because I'd be willing to do the press work for you. We did have this dude Charlie drive down all the way from Pasadena to my house in San Jose so we could do the press work on his ABS rear axles. We'll have a Non-ABS and an ABS axle seal/bearing replacement videos coming out very soon.
I used a Harbor Freight 20 ton press, a special axle tool made by Durasolid and a bearing splitter. The Durasolid tool coupled with a bearing splitter enables you to pull off the inner retainer and ABS gear. Then, the Durasolid tool by itself is used to press out the axle shaft from the bearing and outer retainer.
The Durasolid tool does have one short coming though. The adapter plates it comes with are 3/4" thick, and because of this, it doesn't allow you to grab enough of threads of the serration bolts that are set into the bearing housing. On one of Charlie's axles, the fact we were only able to grab a few threads on each bolt head wasn't enough grabbing power and the force required to press the axle out of the bearing and retainer was too great and the threads gave way. In both videos, I discuss two ways to avoid this from happening.
When the videos are done this week, I'll post them on this thread.
I just had to do this, only to realize that the ring that sits against the seal was way too far down. So I'm guessing that either the previous owner or his mechanic must have put everything together wrong. Luckily I caught it the day after I'd assembled everything and pulled it apart (again!) and moved the inner ring, looks like it's sealing now. I don't understand why someone wouldn't take proper measurements before pulling it all apart.
mtbtim
Elite Member
Rear Axle Seal/Bearing Replacement Videos (ABS & Non-ABS)
[MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I have videos to help people do this job entirely on their own if they have the right tools already or are willing to invest in the tools to do all the press work themselves.
Here's the videos and Enjoy the Show!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AVhSDnw2ugo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vW25hvODHcs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
[MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I have videos to help people do this job entirely on their own if they have the right tools already or are willing to invest in the tools to do all the press work themselves.
Here's the videos and Enjoy the Show!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AVhSDnw2ugo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vW25hvODHcs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
mtbtim
Elite Member
Another reason to do your own work when you have the time, tools and know-how. A Toyota dealership screwed up my axle seal job and they put one of their most knowledgeable mechanics on the job. The guy didn't even know what a grease test was.
I didn't even have the special tool for the job, just used a bearing splitter for the ABS ring and top collar, then punched the 4 studs out and was able to push the bearing and second collar off from behind the backing plate, I was lucky to have a friend with a 20 ton press though.
Luckily I didn't put the new shoes I'd bought in the first time I did it as I wanted to make sure the seal held before installing them.
Herculean T4R
New member
I am getting ready to install ARB locker and am worried about needing to replace inner and outer axle seals once I take the axle shafts out from the axle housing. I can replace inner but don't have tools and press to do outer.
The outer is mostly a dust seal, the inner seal is the most important one, it keeps the oil out of your bearings.
I would not go through all the work of replacing a locker, pulling axles and NOT do the bearings and seals.
several thoughts....
1) I wonder if a12 ton press can do it. I see others have said 20 ton
2) I wonder what it would cost to ship a pair of axles ( both ways) to a good shop or guy who can do the work and he sets it up correctly however with the retainer flipped to the "new" way, like how some people are sending their third member to the guy that others have talked about, cant remember his name.
I don't have a garage or shop at this time in my life, the nearest machine shop is probabaly 50+ miles away (Bend Oregon), the last one I used is about 80 miles away (Lebanon Oregon), and they botched a simple bearing press on a Toyota corolla hub ( how I don't know), they fixed it , no additional cost, just took a day longer because they had to get another bearing and seal
I'm toying with the idea of someday going with a locker or a positrac, do the axles at the same time, and have everything correctly set up by someone who really know what they are doing
several thoughts....
1) I wonder if a12 ton press can do it. I see others have said 20 ton
2) I wonder what it would cost to ship a pair of axles ( both ways) to a good shop or guy who can do the work and he sets it up correctly however with the retainer flipped to the "new" way, like how some people are sending their third member to the guy that others have talked about, cant remember his name.
I don't have a garage or shop at this time in my life, the nearest machine shop is probabaly 50+ miles away (Bend Oregon), the last one I used is about 80 miles away (Lebanon Oregon), and they botched a simple bearing press on a Toyota corolla hub ( how I don't know), they fixed it , no additional cost, just took a day longer because they had to get another bearing and seal
I'm toying with the idea of someday going with a locker or a positrac, do the axles at the same time, and have everything correctly set up by someone who really know what they are doing
JZiggy
Senior Member
I did a real axle bearing job on a friend's 85 pickup (very similar construction to our 3rd gen rear axles) and we used this same type of puller. He had a 12 ton HF press and it did do the job, though it seemed to be near it's limit and was barely big enough to fit the parts in there.
