Ride Quality Questions/ Observations.

[1000MPH]

Taste great!
Less filling!

I totally agree with Seattle Mike. The more I live with KDSS the more I'm impressed. Definitely worth it.
And I didn't have to get the Nav to get KDSS.

 

[fmixman]

Thanks Seattle...


1000- I guess it depends on where you live, around here in PA, if there even was a trail available, it was full boat, so I probably could have ordered something and waited... but I had done that with the FJ and 3 months in I was ready to make it stop! :')

I think for me the SR5 with a better spring/shock setup will be great. the stock isn't horrible, I just notice a lot of the floaty-ness (is that even a word?) about it.

so recape- would have liked KDSS, but not for another 5 grand, actually like the monotone of the SR5 looks. wish it had black trim instead of chrome.

Now I guess I am asking, who has the best stock or 1 to 2 " list after market suspension to not just increase off road but help with on-road handling?

Is it Overland? Icon? some other name I am not familiar with?

I notice Icon makes like 6 levels, any input as to what level is Adequate for getting better On-road? I am sure ALL of them help off road, no?

 

[1engineer]

I drove all three models. Everyone agrees the trail is best off road but on road depends on driving style of individual. Interstate driving at 70-75 mph and around town and rural driving at posted +5 mph the SR5 does fine with minimal body roll. If you push it though around corners the trail leans less. So, do you push it around corners or just drive regularly? I really don't push it anymore (did enough of that 20 years ago) so the SR5 was actually comfortable to drive for me. Cost really did not enter into the equation as much as need and one of the "need" things was my wife could curl up over in the passenger seat during trips under a blanket and sleep comfortably lol!

 

[4RBob]

KDSS is special in that you have great ON ROAD manners with the big sway bars and still have the articulation of the skinnier bars of the Limited and SR5.

So you are saying that a Trail with KDSS has the same articulation as a SR5/Limited? :nono:

And you are going to ignore the direct quotes from Toyota's 4Runner and Landcruiser brochures I posted above? :nono:

FJ Cruiser is a less expensive vehicle (target market), that's probably one of the reasons it doesn't have KDSS.

 

[harper7]

Now I guess I am asking, who has the best stock or 1 to 2 " list after market suspension to not just increase off road but help with on-road handling?

Is it Overland? Icon? some other name I am not familiar with?

I notice Icon makes like 6 levels, any input as to what level is Adequate for getting better On-road? I am sure ALL of them help off road, no?

You will notice a much better on and offroad driving experience with OW or Icon. You can't go wrong with either IMO.There are others too.I have had my Icons for almost a year and worked with Icon on fitment issues being the first 5th to run them with remote res's. Still love them!

Never heard a single complaint on the OW's and people are constantly praising them too.The guys that helped on the design of them actually wheel 4runners and have for years.Both have much better springs then stock, 2 1/2 inch shocks vs stock 2 inch shocks and it makes the ride so much more in control with the heavier duty parts. With the stiffer springs you will lose some of the smoothness on low speed bumps.Like when going over speed bumps/potholes at slow speed feel harsher ,but if I take that same speed bump at 20-30 mph and I can't even tell it's there. I was amazed when I first got them and I was purposely hitting potholes ,railroad tracks, ect at speed and it just eats them up like they aren't even there.

So you are saying that a Trail with KDSS has the same articulation as a SR5/Limited?:nono: I'm a mechanic and have worked on them....I witnessed it having changed my suspension out twice already and the suspension on a TE with KDSS. I know how the sway bars detach/attach to both and they are not the limiting factor on wheel articulation on either of them.When you take them loose they go downward.Sway bars are made from spring steel and flex and the skinnier they are the more they flex.
It's pretty to see how they work on yours.With the wheel off the ground take the sway bar loose from the upright spindle and see if the wheel drops any more. The upper ball joint is what determines how far the wheel drops or articulates down on these IFS's. Take that loose and you'll see the wheel drop down more til the shocks full travel catches it.That's why an aftermarket UCA with a corrected angle to match a 2-3 inch lift gets you more travel. It's the angle of the ball joint.

And you are going to ignore the direct quotes from Toyota's 4Runner and Landcruiser brochures I posted above? :nono: That's marketing and their play on words. They are comparing it to how much wheel articulation with the bigger bar you would have vs. no KDSS with the bigger bars.No where do they compare it to one with a regular sway bars.

FJ Cruiser is a less expensive vehicle (target market), that's probably one of the reasons it doesn't have KDSS. While that's true you'll never see high dollar purpose built offroad or rock crawlers say "lets get KDSS so we can get better wheel articulation" because they don't care about better on road handling.

Here's another of Toyota marketing's play on words that actually got me on the disconnecting of the sway bars too until I actually worked on one.

"The Trail model also has the two-speed lever-operated, part-time four-wheel drive system with neutral position. This model also offers Toyota's Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System (KDSS) which improves terrain by effectively disconnecting stabilizer bars to allow for a better suspension in more slow difficult terrain."

The key word there is the adverb "effectively" but most of us,including me, just skip over the adverb to the verb "disconnects". Effectively means "has the same effect as" in that sentence ,not actually physically disconnecting.

The sway bars are bolted to both LCA's ,the hydraulic actuator and a link hanging down from the frame that acts as the fulcrum point.In the back they are bolted to the axle,the actuator and a link hanging down from the frame.If one really disconnects ,the bolts came out and your going to have a big problem.

Here's a good read and review on the TE from more of a mechanical point of view from my favorite magazine.... 2010 Toyota 4Runner Review - Specs and Test Drive of Toyota 4Runner - Popular Mechanics

 

[Speedy Babo]

one of the "need" things was my wife could curl up over in the passenger seat during trips under a blanket and sleep comfortably lol!

That was one of my needs too!

I wanted the KDSS as less body roll would be desired, but the full time 4x4 with the torsen diff is what sold me on the limited.
I was also thinking about ICON but saw the OW were cheaper. Does OW's 2" vs 2.5" kit mean they give a 2" or 2.5" lift as well?

 

[CApilot78]

That was one of my needs too!

I wanted the KDSS as less body roll would be desired, but the full time 4x4 with the torsen diff is what sold me on the limited.
I was also thinking about ICON but saw the OW were cheaper. Does OW's 2" vs 2.5" kit mean they give a 2" or 2.5" lift as well?

2" vs 2.5" is the diameter of the shock body, not the lift height. The Icon stage II comes with billet UCAs. The OW doesn't come with upper control arms.

I am looking at both of those as well, and the question I have for someone is are both the Icon front and rear shocks 2.5"? Their website says the fronts are 2.5" but it doesn't say if the rears are 2.5".

 

[harper7]

I am looking at both of those as well, and the question I have for someone is are both the Icon front and rear shocks 2.5"? Their website says the fronts are 2.5" but it doesn't say if the rears are 2.5".

No the Reg Icon rear shocks are 2" and are made by Edelbrock for Icon. The piggyback Icon rear shocks however are made in house with CNC'd parts and ARE 2 1/2" .Expensive but some really sweet rear shocks. You can also buy separate parts from Icon like I did as it doesn't have to be in their "stage" kits. They do the stage kits to make it easier.

 

[4RBob]

harper, if what you are saying is true about the KDSS not getting any more articulation than a non-KDSS 4Runner, it's not a play on words, it's complete false advertising by Toyota.

I realize the swaybar is never "disconnected", but I believe the KDSS is supposed to act like a loosely connected swaybar off-road (think Currie Anti-Rock in the Jeep world). the added benefit of KDSS (and probably what more customers are interested in) is the beefier swaybar on-road giving better handling.

I would like to see a stock KDSS 4Runner and a stock non-KDSS 4Runner on a RTI ramp.

 

[Koz]

Look at FJ Cruisers, not one version with KDSS. If it was such a valuable off-road tool, why did Toyota have it on the Lexus for the entire life span of the FJ and NOT offer it, not even as an option.

KDSS allows otherwise off-road worthy vehicles to reclaim some of the road manners they had to give up prior to it's introduction.

Also, the FJ was/is a bare bones vehicle and KDSS is not cheap. The FJ can easily be modified for off roading. Any truck's handling would benefit from an electronically controlled active sway bar. A very strong sway bar that forces articulation and traction off-road and almost eliminates leaning on road.

Koz

 

[Speedy Babo]

I like the stock x-reas on the ltd and I feel them doing their thing best on curved freeway on-ramps. What I would like is a stiffer setup for even better handling and about a 2" lift. Just stiff enough to improve handling while not upsetting my fiancée about the ride quality. Came from a Subaru Sti so theres that for comparison. Are there any aftermarket systems that can utilize the x-reas hydraulics or do they make them obsolete anyway?

Hey harper, how do you like the icons and would you say they surpass the x-reas in the body roll department? I'm not planning on any major off-roading, but the ltd is my DD. I'm wondering if you even kept the pump and tubing on the 4r unless you were planning to go back to stock, which I don't think you are. lol

 

[Speedy Babo]

any thoughts?