Intruder
New member
Yeah the shipping companies really give it to us up here without any lube.
Honestly have no idea. To give you an idea though, a skid sensor wire cost me over $100 in Calgary and it's something like $60 in the states.
Serious kdss problem
- Thread starter BCtrail
- Start date
BlackWorksInc
New member
I was just looking at the parts diagrams and it looks like they all use the same spindle with the hole drilled through it, Toyota just didn't use the hole in the spindle for the KDSS system. You might just have to fab/relocate the sway bar mounts and disable the system electrically in the front.
E-ROCKER
New member
You mentioned you notice a clanking in the front and the rear. Just curious if you notice any change in the handling or the ride?
Have you ruled out the noise/clanking that is said to happen when the kdss sway bar bushings are worn out?
I wouldn't just trust the dealerships opinion. Did you get a second opinion?
Have you ruled out the noise/clanking that is said to happen when the kdss sway bar bushings are worn out?
I wouldn't just trust the dealerships opinion. Did you get a second opinion?
This would be one of those cases where I'd craft a professional, polite letter to Toyota North America detailing the issue as an abnormal failure on a relatively new vehicle. You assuredly won't get much relief from any dealer (there is no incentive for a dealer to help you here), but if Toyota North America were to authorize a "one time" repair for an abnormal failure, you might get it repaired either free or at a significantly reduced cost at your dealership. It's certainly worth a try.
The key is to not be a jerk when you write. Just stick to the facts and professionally imply that you feel it was a premature failure. I successfully did this with Ford a couple times in the past.
The key is to not be a jerk when you write. Just stick to the facts and professionally imply that you feel it was a premature failure. I successfully did this with Ford a couple times in the past.
USMCRUNNER
New member
As long as it is bumper to bumper I don't see why not. Now if it's just power train your probably screwed. To the OP hope you get it all sorted out! Have you priced out what it would cost to just rip the system out and go with regular sway bars? That's my plan if mine craps out or like Intruder said probably go long travel at that point.
I'm pretty sure it would. I have the 7 year 100k extended on mine, and the exclusions were specifically noted and covered verbally and in writing when I got it. KDSS was not excluded. In my case, I'll burn through the mileage long before 7 years, but an instance like this definitely makes a warranty pay for itself.....not to mention all the comp'd maintenance that's part of that warranty too. I had the extended on my FJ Cruiser too and in six years never had a major repair. I expect the same from my 4Runner. I'm guessing that MOST of the time the warranty is a waste of money.....but I personally like not having to sweat any major car repairs. It is, after all, why I drive a Toyota in the first place. I don't think this is a common problem with KDSS, and I sure wouldn't buy the warranty just because I was afraid my KDSS system might go out after 4 years. There's a pretty long track record of KDSS durability, with relatively few reported problems. This seems like a "one off" case to me, and I hope the OP gets it resolved through Toyota satisfactorily.
How many miles on your rig?
Morning there is 98000 kms on my rig. I didnt buy any extended warranty because its my 3 rd 4runner and have never had any issues over the years so extended warranty seemed like a waste of money.
I agree andy wife who is a skilled writer is putting together a polite letter to toyota about our dilema we will see how it goes
wfo9
New member
Here is the deal with KDSS (from my perspective). It is a one off suspension wear part that uses hydraulics. Enough said.
It should last ~100K without any service, but beyond that is a big unknown. Suspension takes a beating, bushings wear, joints develop slop. The GX Lexus has had it as an option since ~2005, but I don't know the long term track record, just using common sense.
IMHO, it is a great option to get on a new truck that you plan to keep for a few years, not a great option get on a used truck with high miles.
If I had it and it went out, i would look for options to remove it, unless it was cheap to fix. Once those systems are opened up, the chances for future problems go up (again, just an opinion) It should be pretty easy to remove if you are willing to go without sway bars (long travel...). However, you might just be stuck with a light on the dash unless you can figure out how to disable it (I'm sure that gets very annoying). If you want to keep sway bars, it is an unknown, since the frame mounts are potentially different. I still can't believe Toyota would do a special frame for KDSS trucks.
Here is what I would consider attempting (never looked at KDSS setup in detail, but seems like it would be a possibility). Fabricate a fixed position cylinder mount to replace the ram (maybe even use the existing ram). Put a pin in it so that it can be manually removed. This would need to be well engineered and done by a skilled machine shop with some bushings.... Drive it on the road with the pin in, take it out for off-road. Maybe even put a few different positions in it for on-road. This is exactly what I wish Toyota (or some aftermarket company) would offer, a sway-bar system that can be manually disconnected at the trail.
It should last ~100K without any service, but beyond that is a big unknown. Suspension takes a beating, bushings wear, joints develop slop. The GX Lexus has had it as an option since ~2005, but I don't know the long term track record, just using common sense.
IMHO, it is a great option to get on a new truck that you plan to keep for a few years, not a great option get on a used truck with high miles.
If I had it and it went out, i would look for options to remove it, unless it was cheap to fix. Once those systems are opened up, the chances for future problems go up (again, just an opinion) It should be pretty easy to remove if you are willing to go without sway bars (long travel...). However, you might just be stuck with a light on the dash unless you can figure out how to disable it (I'm sure that gets very annoying). If you want to keep sway bars, it is an unknown, since the frame mounts are potentially different. I still can't believe Toyota would do a special frame for KDSS trucks.
Here is what I would consider attempting (never looked at KDSS setup in detail, but seems like it would be a possibility). Fabricate a fixed position cylinder mount to replace the ram (maybe even use the existing ram). Put a pin in it so that it can be manually removed. This would need to be well engineered and done by a skilled machine shop with some bushings.... Drive it on the road with the pin in, take it out for off-road. Maybe even put a few different positions in it for on-road. This is exactly what I wish Toyota (or some aftermarket company) would offer, a sway-bar system that can be manually disconnected at the trail.
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Whiplash Willy
New member
My wife's 2006 GX470 Sport is having the same issue as the OP, except it is the rear actuator that is leaking. On normal roads, you don't really notice anything but uneven bumps and off road you can really feel the clunk and loose suspension feel.
We noticed the leak and suspension feel at 81k miles. For Reference, our local Lexus Dealer (Lexus of Portland) quoted us $1596.27 USD to replace the rear actuator and bleed the system.
Here is the thread that was mentioned earlier with the guy who bought the pump off ebay and did it himself:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/186132-front-end-clunk.html
When we got the GX, I was excited it had KDSS, as it is a rare and sought after option, but with this expensive service (and no idea how long the front actuator will last) I wish I didn't have it.
Here is what our rear actuator leak looks like:
Others with similar KDSS symptoms have fixed their issues by replacing the 4 bushings on each sway bar, and I guess it would be worth a shot considering the cost, but with ours having visual signs of leaking, it must be to loss of pressure in the system.
The above thread talks about suspension clunking after lifting a KDSS equipped vehicle, I wounder how lifting effects the KDSS system, and if it should be bled/pressurized after lifting
We noticed the leak and suspension feel at 81k miles. For Reference, our local Lexus Dealer (Lexus of Portland) quoted us $1596.27 USD to replace the rear actuator and bleed the system.
Here is the thread that was mentioned earlier with the guy who bought the pump off ebay and did it himself:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/186132-front-end-clunk.html
When we got the GX, I was excited it had KDSS, as it is a rare and sought after option, but with this expensive service (and no idea how long the front actuator will last) I wish I didn't have it.
Here is what our rear actuator leak looks like:
Others with similar KDSS symptoms have fixed their issues by replacing the 4 bushings on each sway bar, and I guess it would be worth a shot considering the cost, but with ours having visual signs of leaking, it must be to loss of pressure in the system.
The above thread talks about suspension clunking after lifting a KDSS equipped vehicle, I wounder how lifting effects the KDSS system, and if it should be bled/pressurized after lifting
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A letter to Toyota canada will most likely get you nowhere. TMC has fulfilled their obligation to your vehicle, you are well out of the 3yr/60,000km warranty that would have covered your issue. You are pushing if not past your 5yr/100,000 km power train warranty. You may be able to get better pricing by checking with dealers south of the border.
Good luck.
Intruder
New member
I've had a lifted TE with KDSS for 3.5 years (had it 5 months before the lift) without any problems. Never had the system bled or pressurized.
Intruder
New member
Can't hurt to try. Doesn't take a lot of investment to write a letter and the worst they can do is say no.
He will have better luck playing nice with the dealer trying to get a 10-15% discount. After the 3/60 TMC has no obligation to help him, however the dealer would like to keep him as a customer. if Toyota helped everyone that complained 38,000km past warranty they would be bankrupt.
Intruder
New member
Can't hurt to try. Then if/when Toyota says no he can try to get a discount from the dealer. In my experience that only works if you've had all your maintenance done there and on schedule. YMMV.
I have to respectfully disagree with you, as I have done what I suggested to him, and had the manufacturer step up and do the right thing. It isn't about complaining. It's about an extremely expensive system that wore out prematurely....and contrary to the norm. I'd give about a 50/50 chance that they'll at least cover the parts if they're convinced that this is something that broke well ahead of it's time. It sure as heck doesn't hurt to try.
From my experience working for a large dealer in Canada he has a very small chance they will help. It is an expensive system that wore out after its minimum service life... 3 years 60,000km it may be contrary to the norm but the expensive system is no longer toyotas responsibility. Op should have bought ECP
As I said earlier he would probably have better luck talking to the dealer.
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