The Dealer May Have Broken My Truck!

[fdbyrne]

I'm going to hijack my own thread back for a few minutes.

The Toyota Service Adviser has been dodging my calls for two days. I finally just spoke to him and he is washing his hands of it saying that I was just 'unlucky' and the actuator broke of it's own accord while they had it but not due to anything they did. The want to charge me for further diagnostic and repairs.

I advised him that I won't pay for any repairs beyond what I asked them to fix. Whatever happened was due to a mistake made on their part and they will be fixing it on their dime or I will be filing a lawsuit.

He said that he would have the service manager call me in a few minutes but I don't expect anything different from him.

Mistakes happen and I'm willing to give them as much time as they need to fix it, but I won't pay for it and I want a loaner vehicle while they figure it out. Anything short of that and I will immediately do two things: go to Toyota Corporate which may or may not help, and get a lawyer friend of mine to file a lawsuit for the damages.

We'll see how this all plays out. At this point I'm not expecting a quick resolution.

 

[Wingman707]

document

I agree with "walk". Be sure to document the discussions that you have had on the phone and be sure to get names of the service people. I had a very similar issue when I purchased my truck. It was in fact an actuator 4600.00 and 10hr diognostic from the Toyota Engineers. Keep cool, and start taking names.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...-light-flashing-not-engaging-please-help.html

 

[shahsmerdis]

I'm going to hijack my own thread back for a few minutes.

The Toyota Service Adviser has been dodging my calls for two days. I finally just spoke to him and he is washing his hands of it saying that I was just 'unlucky' and the actuator broke of it's own accord while they had it but not due to anything they did. The want to charge me for further diagnostic and repairs.

I advised him that I won't pay for any repairs beyond what I asked them to fix. Whatever happened was due to a mistake made on their part and they will be fixing it on their dime or I will be filing a lawsuit.

He said that he would have the service manager call me in a few minutes but I don't expect anything different from him.

Mistakes happen and I'm willing to give them as much time as they need to fix it, but I won't pay for it and I want a loaner vehicle while they figure it out. Anything short of that and I will immediately do two things: go to Toyota Corporate which may or may not help, and get a lawyer friend of mine to file a lawsuit for the damages.

We'll see how this all plays out. At this point I'm not expecting a quick resolution.

wow, any call back? Is there any lose proof you can find that it was working before you put it in? Any way possible? start recording these conversations!

edit : make an excel sheet, update it every night. it will help especially to add the weight of the envelope you serve them

 

[fdbyrne]

It's hard to prove something was working. I do 'exercise' the 4HI and 4LO monthly and it was functional as of the 2nd of October. The service tech did admit that he personally drove the vehicle into the service bay and at the time there were no lights on and no beeping. Now the 4LO light is flashing and beeping like it's trying to get into 4LO and can't. He basically acknowledged that it was working when I delivered the vehicle to them, now it isn't, and that it wasn't their fault. He actually said that it was just unlucky timing.

I'm still waiting on the service manager to call back but don't expect anything different. I've already reached out to my lawyer friend.

 

[DarenS]

Another option is to pay for it with a credit card, then reverse the charges and get the credit card company to fight your battles for you. California has small claims court for anything up to $5K (I believe).

I'm not sure if Missouri has something similar, but it would be worth investigating. Legal actions and depositions seem to help soften businesses resolve to resist.

I worked as a Service Adviser for a Ford dealer briefly, and it was pretty standard for the SAs to say no, only to have the manager reverse the decision and say yes. Keep pressing and don't take no for an answer.

I would suggest if they resist, don't threaten legal action, get the truck out of there, take it to another mechanic, then reverse the charges and sue. Also make full use of the news media, especially TV consumer reporters. They're always looking for something to fill the airwaves and having a reporter and camera crew show up at the dealership to file yet another segment about a rotten dealership is always bad for business.

 

[Ralph Blake]

I want to read what Toyota has to say in regards, to this service Dept. caused problem.
I had a problem with a service Dept. at a Ford dealer,when my then new ford Bronco was under warranty,but after many trips the one year warranty ran out.
Then they told me i had a computer problem and i would be required to pay $700 dollars plus labor for a new one.

I knew the computer back then had nothing to do with the problem. And the people in their service Dept. knew it also.

They just wanted to blow me off,charge me for their time of doing nothing and get me out the door with the Bronco around $75 dollars they even charged me for shop towels and cleaning supplies.

I just paid them left and started calling Ford.

Took a while but i did get my money paid back,but i was not ever able to get Ford to fix the problem.

I did not at that time know it was un fixable problem,as it had to do with the infamous Ford motorcraft variable veniture carburetor.

It was used on many Ford products at this time,up to when fuel injectors replaced it.

But Ford refused to admit it was a faulty system and stone walled everyone who tried getting their cars and trucks to work.

I never bought another Ford product and never will.:laser:

So I have a real dislike for worthless dealer stealing service Dept.s and really hate reading, where one of the Toyota Dealers are trying to give someone the shaft.:mad2:

 

[wyanrard]

It's hard to prove something was working. I do 'exercise' the 4HI and 4LO monthly and it was functional as of the 2nd of October. The service tech did admit that he personally drove the vehicle into the service bay and at the time there were no lights on and no beeping. Now the 4LO light is flashing and beeping like it's trying to get into 4LO and can't. He basically acknowledged that it was working when I delivered the vehicle to them, now it isn't, and that it wasn't their fault. He actually said that it was just unlucky timing.

I'm still waiting on the service manager to call back but don't expect anything different. I've already reached out to my lawyer friend.

Read through your post again, and at one point i had similar problems in my 03, but it fixed itself. Have they tried switching it over to 4HI from the 4LO position and while it beeps put the trans into neutral and tap on the actuator? It is possible that it seized and didn't fail, it would be worth a shot. I remember reading a thread a while back about a DIY fix for actuator problems, I'll try and find it if I can. It is hopefully just hung up and not failed.

 

[wyanrard]

I just got a call saying that it's being "weird". They say that it's in 4wd and actively trying to switch into 4LO even though the drive selection switch is in 2HI. They were asking me questions that make me think they are trying to pin it on me. They said that they think it's the actuator and that it looks like it has been modified in some way but didn't elaborate.

It interesting that they said it had been modified, who would actually even want to modify it. haha.

If it was driven in in 2HI, did they even have a reason to switch it to 4WD at all throughout their repair process ?

 

[fdbyrne]

The 4x4 selector is set to 2HI per the dealer, but I haven't seen it. I don't want to touch it for fear of being accused of making it worse. Something is sending a signal to the actuator to switch into 4x4 but it isn't the switch. My guess is that it would actually go into 4LO I'd the dealer put it in neutral.

The service manager wasn't much help. I was able to talk him into a loaner car until Monday. I was also able to convince him to waive the diagnostic fee and keep trying to find the problem. We disagreed about who would pay for the problem when it's found.

I called Toyota Corporate and am cautiously optimistic. They can't promise to pay until the problem is isolated but they will be calling the dealer tomorrow to push them toward a final diagnosis and address my customer service complaints.

I also spoke to my lawyer who advised that it sounded like an easy case that he would be happy to help me with if it came to that. He's a friend from church and will help me for free unless it gets really time consuming.

 

[Ralph Blake]

The 4x4 selector is set to 2HI per the dealer, but I haven't seen it. I don't want to touch it for fear of being accused of making it worse. Something is sending a signal to the actuator to switch into 4x4 but it isn't the switch. My guess is that it would actually go into 4LO I'd the dealer put it in neutral.

The service manager wasn't much help. I was able to talk him into a loaner car until Monday. I was also able to convince him to waive the diagnostic fee and keep trying to find the problem. We disagreed about who would pay for the problem when it's found.

I called Toyota Corporate and am cautiously optimistic. They can't promise to pay until the problem is isolated but they will be calling the dealer tomorrow to push them toward a final diagnosis and address my customer service complaints.

I also spoke to my lawyer who advised that it sounded like an easy case that he would be happy to help me with if it came to that. He's a friend from church and will help me for free unless it gets really time consuming.

Glad you have a Attorney and hope he is correct, in it being an easy case to get taken care of.
As I don't think Toyota Corp. will be helpful,and i don't see your dealer backing down an inch,or doing anything without you paying for it.

Just keep calling "PUSHING" Toyota and let us know what happens.

 

[Sungod]

So what happened? Did you realize is isn't a truck?

 

[fdbyrne]

No, it still is and always will be a truck but I don't want to poke that bear and let the thread digress again. Feel free to call it what you want, I won't correct you.

I haven't posted an update because there really isn't one. As of now, I'm still driving their loaner Camry and they still have my 4Runner. I have had little to no communication from the dealership but I'm trying to be patient since I do have transportation.

Tomorrow will be two weeks since I dropped my 4Runner off at the dealership. The first week was for them to fix the head gasket and much of that was waiting on the machine shop. The second week is all them 'diagnosing' the new problem. To be fair, they could be fixing it and just not keeping me in the loop but I really don't expect that that's the case.

My lawyer has a demand letter all typed up and ready to go. He's just waiting on dollar figures and a go-ahead from me if everything else fails. I've never sued anybody before and I really don't want to have to do that. I'll have to exhaust all other options before I go that route.

On a complete side note, the Camry has been an enlightening experience. My 4Runner has the old 4 speed transmission. I know a lot of people think that's too few gears and it may very well be but if more gears makes a vehicle drive like this Camry does then I don't want any part of it. It is a 6 speed transmission and by the time I hit 30 miles an hour, it's shifted 3 times with noticeable lurches at each shift point. It's not abrupt and I don't think that there's anything wrong with the transmission, but it's noticeable and annoying.

 

[shahsmerdis]

No, it still is and always will be a truck but I don't want to poke that bear and let the thread digress again. Feel free to call it what you want, I won't correct you.

I haven't posted an update because there really isn't one. As of now, I'm still driving their loaner Camry and they still have my 4Runner. I have had little to no communication from the dealership but I'm trying to be patient since I do have transportation.

Tomorrow will be two weeks since I dropped my 4Runner off at the dealership. The first week was for them to fix the head gasket and much of that was waiting on the machine shop. The second week is all them 'diagnosing' the new problem. To be fair, they could be fixing it and just not keeping me in the loop but I really don't expect that that's the case.

My lawyer has a demand letter all typed up and ready to go. He's just waiting on dollar figures and a go-ahead from me if everything else fails. I've never sued anybody before and I really don't want to have to do that. I'll have to exhaust all other options before I go that route.

I sued my landlord, it was very easy. they didn't even show. small claims court took care of it. now getting them to pay is a different story. but easy none the less. took about 1 hour, I came in with loads and loads of documentation, it was quiet informal (Though don't expect it to be) turns out the arbitrator went to the same middle school as us hah.

Don't worry, they won't want to deal with law suite as much as you do . The only thing they can do is prolong it. which would be a pain. they can try and file for extensions or go by the court as much as possible to ware you out.

They probably aren't even looking at your truck, call them up and raise hell. I bet if you pass by your dealership you will see it parked outside.

If they are looking at it, then dam, it would be cheaper for them to replace everything in site and get you on your way. the cost of their bay is way more than your truck.

Note suefor more than what you are asking for by the way. in case anything new comes up or the repair is more, you can only be awarded for what you sue for.

 

[Sungod]

No, it still is and always will be a truck but I don't want to poke that bear and let the thread digress again. Feel free to call it what you want, I won't correct you.

I haven't posted an update because there really isn't one. As of now, I'm still driving their loaner Camry and they still have my 4Runner. I have had little to no communication from the dealership but I'm trying to be patient since I do have transportation.

Tomorrow will be two weeks since I dropped my 4Runner off at the dealership. The first week was for them to fix the head gasket and much of that was waiting on the machine shop. The second week is all them 'diagnosing' the new problem. To be fair, they could be fixing it and just not keeping me in the loop but I really don't expect that that's the case.

My lawyer has a demand letter all typed up and ready to go. He's just waiting on dollar figures and a go-ahead from me if everything else fails. I've never sued anybody before and I really don't want to have to do that. I'll have to exhaust all other options before I go that route.

On a complete side note, the Camry has been an enlightening experience. My 4Runner has the old 4 speed transmission. I know a lot of people think that's too few gears and it may very well be but if more gears makes a vehicle drive like this Camry does then I don't want any part of it. It is a 6 speed transmission and by the time I hit 30 miles an hour, it's shifted 3 times with noticeable lurches at each shift point. It's not abrupt and I don't think that there's anything wrong with the transmission, but it's noticeable and annoying.

What did you authorize them to do in regards to the new issue?

BTW, New Cars, Trucks, SUVs & Hybrids | Toyota Official Site Just sayin....

 

[fdbyrne]

I calmly and clearly restated my position that I expected them to bring my 4runner back to the condition it was in when they accepted possession of it minus the head gasket repair of course.

They wanted me to take the truck back and just be OK with it not having 4 wheel drive. They said they were able to open up the actuator assembly and physically reset the actuators to two wheel drive. They said they were afraid to flip it into 4HI to test for fear that it won't switch back out of 4HI.

I advised them first off that I was not going to be paying for the actuator diagnosis or repair but that I expected them to do what they had to to make sure the problem is resolved. I confirmed with the service tech that he understood that I wasn't giving them authorization to make any changes with the expectation of receiving payment.

He said that he would talk to management and get back to me. I've not heard back and don't know how they will proceed.

I called and spoke to Toyota Corporate again who escalated it to whatever their next level is. They said that I will receive a call from somebody with authority over the matter (other than the local service manager) within the next two days.

I'm not convinced that it's an actuator problem at all. The actuators are physical mechanisms that only activate when given the signal to do so. The signal came from somewhere other than the 4x4 selector switch which makes me think that they caused some sort of electrical problem that impacted the ECU. The TSB that [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] posted above leads me to believe that there is a separate ECU that governs the 4x4 system and that could be the one that's fried. The dealership admits that they don't know 100% for sure what the problem is and that they are just guessing.

 

[MFreund]

Read all 4 pages. Good luck. I don't think the dealership will give the lawyer much attention, but the news media would help.

 

[fdbyrne]

You're probably right about them not caring, but I should clarify my lawsuit intent. I'm not threatening to sue as a bluff or for big bucks to make a point and scare them. If they ignore the lawyer's demand letter, I'll have to pay for them to fix my truck because I need it and they'll start charging me storage fees for it. I'll then have to take them to small claims court to try to recoup my money.

I agree with you that I don't have much of a chance of scaring them into performing, but I do think that I have enough evidence to stand a chance in small claims court.

 

[Ralph Blake]

I am just in hopes that there is a good out come to it all.
Seems a damn shame one can't take their Toyota 4Runner into a Toyota Dealers Service Dept. to get something repaired,and have it turn into a major nightmare.
Don't know what their service people did to it but it sounds like they did something really wrong,and now don't know how to get it fixed.

 

[2003-4x4runner]

So what happened? Did you realize is isn't a truck?

Is this a truck or car? Sorry I couldn't resist.

 

[av8ter]

You're probably right about them not caring, but I should clarify my lawsuit intent. I'm not threatening to sue as a bluff or for big bucks to make a point and scare them. If they ignore the lawyer's demand letter, I'll have to pay for them to fix my truck because I need it and they'll start charging me storage fees for it. I'll then have to take them to small claims court to try to recoup my money.

I agree with you that I don't have much of a chance of scaring them into performing, but I do think that I have enough evidence to stand a chance in small claims court.

Has the actuator ever been replaced before? Is it the one original to the vehicle(12 years old now)?