The Dealer May Have Broken My Truck!

[BlackWorksInc]

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They wanted me to take the truck back and just be OK with it not having 4 wheel drive. They said they were able to open up the actuator assembly and physically reset the actuators to two wheel drive. They said they were afraid to flip it into 4HI to test for fear that it won't switch back out of 4HI.

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I'm not convinced that it's an actuator problem at all. The actuators are physical mechanisms that only activate when given the signal to do so. The signal came from somewhere other than the 4x4 selector switch which makes me think that they caused some sort of electrical problem that impacted the ECU. The TSB that [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] posted above leads me to believe that there is a separate ECU that governs the 4x4 system and that could be the one that's fried. The dealership admits that they don't know 100% for sure what the problem is and that they are just guessing.

They opened up the actuator? Well you need a new one now for sure if they messed with the gears, there's no factory literature that talks about how to re-time them nor has there really been any repeatable success on the forums when attempting to do so. So unless they somehow have documentation that shows what timing is supposed to be (and honestly if they do I'd LOVE to have that for my records) then they just potentially ruined the actuator.

It could be the 4WD ECU, the thing lives under the glovebox attached to the black kick panel that is just under the glovebox. Again, I have no idea how they could have messed it up by doing heads as the 4WD ECU is under the glovebox and the actuator is on the transfercase. So unless they disconnected the two I am not sure what they could have done. But then again, I have seen people do stupide things...

 

[fdbyrne]

Yes. As far as I know it's the original actuator. There was nothing in the Toyota Vehicle History Report about the prior owner replacing it and I haven't done anything to it in the year that I've had it.

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], I agree with you about them killing the actuator. I've read those threads where people have tried to get the timing right and never had any success. I was surprised when the tech said that they had done that.

I spent some time researching the issue today and in the entire internet I only found one example of a 4runner taking it upon itself to shift the actuator without input from the selector switch and then getting stuck. The scenario isn't much different than mine. It was a V8 model that was taken into a stereo shop to have a head unit put in. For some reason the shop disconnected the 4wd selector switch without removing the battery cable. When they put it back together it shifted into 4LO, like mine is trying to do, and wouldn't go back into 4HI regardless of what was done to the selector switch. In the end, the stereo shop took it to a Toyota dealer who charged them $3800 for a new actuator which apparently solved the problem. I take this as proof that it is at least possible to fry the actuator electronically without actually messing with the actuator itself. That example is from way back in the day and the vehicle was only a few years old with very few miles on it so it wasn't an issue with wear.

Without exception, every other actuator problem that I found had very different symptoms. When the actuators go, they either don't engage when the selector switch is toggled or they finally do engage but then won't disengage. Both scenarios require input from the selector switch and happen to people that don't often use their 4wd.

I do 'exercise' my 4HI and 4LO monthly by the way.

 

[Jailguard]

I also wouldn't put it past one of the lot monkeys moved the truck and messed with the 4x4 and when it went fubar ran to the service adviser to say it was acting up. When my sister traded in her 350z it was in superb condition with really low miles. when she brought the new car back for its first free oil change her salesman came up to her to tell her they had to put a clutch in the car before they could sell it. I drove the car a week before it was traded in and it was 100% no problems at all and always serviced by that dealership. So I would not put it past a lot guy to mess with it before they called you to pick it up.

 

[av8ter]

I also wouldn't put it past one of the lot monkeys moved the truck and messed with the 4x4 and when it went fubar ran to the service adviser to say it was acting up. When my sister traded in her 350z it was in superb condition with really low miles. when she brought the new car back for its first free oil change her salesman came up to her to tell her they had to put a clutch in the car before they could sell it. I drove the car a week before it was traded in and it was 100% no problems at all and always serviced by that dealership. So I would not put it past a lot guy to mess with it before they called you to pick it up.

It must have been the OP's 4runner I saw on a recent youtube video. Two guys(I won't name the race) in Toyota service uniforms jumping/wheeling a 4th gen in a retention pond behind what looked to be a dealership's inventory parking lot.

 

[Ralph Blake]

About eight years ago a shop i used and trusted,got into doing auto computer repairs. The owner hired a man he thought had the knowledge and the experience to do this work.
My wifes 89 Nissan Maxima would not start,i sent her to this mans shop and the new service Tech. told her it needed a new computer and had already pulled the computer out. Told her it would cost around $4000 total.
Wife said that was just more then she wished to invest in the 89 Maxima.
The shop wanted $500 dollars for what had already been done, wife said she never asked for the old computer to be removed,shop wanted $200 extra to put it back in.
Wife paid the $500 and had the Maxima towed to a Nissan dealer and they found all that was needed was a $25 dollar power relay. They charged just $100 dollars to put the computer back in.
When she addressed the shop that wanted to replace the computer,but did not notice the power relay was the problem. The owner refunded the $500 and he let the new hired Tech. go,he told me later he had trusted the guy,and should have done a better job of watching him.
The wife was out $125+$25 for the tow and all was good.
So there are some dealer service Dept.s that are honest,and some small shops that will refund the cost of a misguided repair,not many of both sadly but there some.

 

[av8ter]

About eight years ago a shop i used and trusted,got into doing auto computer repairs. The owner hired a man he thought had the knowledge and the experience to do this work.
My wifes 89 Nissan Maxima would not start,i sent her to this mans shop and the new service Tech. told her it needed a new computer and had already pulled the computer out. Told her it would cost around $4000 total.
Wife said that was just more then she wished to invest in the 89 Maxima.
The shop wanted $500 dollars for what had already been done, wife said she never asked for the old computer to be removed,shop wanted $200 extra to put it back in.
Wife paid the $500 and had the Maxima towed to a Nissan dealer and they found all that was needed was a $25 dollar power relay. They charged just $100 dollars to put the computer back in.
When she addressed the shop that wanted to replace the computer,but did not notice the power relay was the problem. The owner refunded the $500 and he let the new hired Tech. go,he told me later he had trusted the guy,and should have done a better job of watching him.
The wife was out $130+$25 for the tow and all was good.
So there are some dealer service Dept.s thet are honest,and some small shops that will refund the cost of a misguided repair,not many of both sadly but there some.

Why I get exhausted when viewing "dealership rants" across the multiple 4runner forums. Everyone acts like the service department is the devil, but you only hear the bad, never the good. If you're too good for the dealership then simply don't go there.


I can't say I would have taken legal action in this case. Actuators are a known failure point on these vehicles. Why try to pin a part failure(12 years old at least, that rides on the bottom of your vehicle) on them. I don't see Toyota "good willing" this repair in any way, shape, or form.

4wd component failure after engine repair on a 12 year old vehicle. "Kick rocks" would be my response, but my serve manager will have a more formal/polite way of putting it.

 

[fdbyrne]

Why I get exhausted when viewing "dealership rants" across the multiple 4runner forums. Everyone acts like the service department is the devil, but you only hear the bad, never the good. If you're too good for the dealership then simply don't go there.


I can't say I would have taken legal action in this case. Actuators are a known failure point on these vehicles. Why try to pin a part failure(12 years old at least, that rides on the bottom of your vehicle) on them. I don't see Toyota "good willing" this repair in any way, shape, or form.

4wd component failure after engine repair on a 12 year old vehicle. "Kick rocks" would be my response, but my serve manager will have a more formal/polite way of putting it.

Find me one other case, other than the one I mentioned, where an actuator decided to shift into 4WD on its own and die and I'll agree with you.

Also, take note that I ponied up $2500 for a head gasket without *****ing about it or demanding that someone should compensate me for it. I'm not out to get something for free.

 

[av8ter]

Find me one other case, other than the one I mentioned, where an actuator decided to shift into 4WD on its own and die while in someone else's possession and I'll agree with you.

Also, take note that I ponied up $2500 for a head gasket without *****ing about it or demanding that someone should compensate me for it. I'm not out to get something for free.

First part of my post wasn't directed to you, it was a response to the post that I quoted.


My only advise is to replace the failed actuator. Who knows what else on your vehicle the dealership is going to decide to break while they have it in their possession.


My honest advice, take it to another Toyota dealership. Have them confirm findings.

 

[Ralph Blake]

I feel the dealer in this case should install a brand new actuator at no charge. They know they damaged it,and should stand up and get it fixed.
They already have caused this man a bunch of not asked for trouble,and he is without his 4Runner.
He trusted this dealer to do a simple head gasket job,and they destroyed his 4wd actuator, and now have been trying to dodge getting it fixed.

 

[av8ter]

I feel the dealer in this case should install a brand new actuator at no charge. They know they damaged it,and should stand up and get it fixed.
They already have caused this man a bunch of not asked for trouble,and he is without his 4Runner.
He trusted this dealer to do a simple head gasket job,and they destroyed his 4wd actuator, and now have been trying to dodge getting it fixed.

But again, here we are simply accusing the dealership of "destroying" it and demanding that they fix it.

They took it apart yes, in the pursuit of diagnosis. They told you what is wrong, and what needs to be replaced.


The lines are too blurred. Like I said, if it is OP's intent to have this repaired at no charge to himself(obvious intention), he needs to go to another dealer, have the findings confirmed, and report directly to Toyota with the evidence/findings. They will either ask him to pound sand or write the repair off and have dealership fix it as a goodwill repair.

 

[hearno]

It must have been the OP's 4runner I saw on a recent youtube video. Two guys(I won't name the race) in Toyota service uniforms jumping/wheeling a 4th gen in a retention pond behind what looked to be a dealership's inventory parking lot.

Got a link to the video?

 

[av8ter]

Got a link to the video?

 

[fdbyrne]

But again, here we are simply accusing the dealership of "destroying" it and demanding that they fix it.

They took it apart yes, in the pursuit of diagnosis. They told you what is wrong, and what needs to be replaced.

The lines are too blurred. Like I said, if it is OP's intent to have this repaired at no charge to himself(obvious intention), he needs to go to another dealer, have the findings confirmed, and report directly to Toyota with the evidence/findings. They will either ask him to pound sand or write the repair off and have dealership fix it as a goodwill repair.

If only there was another dealer within 150 miles, I would do that.

Also, I'm not demanding a new actuator. I don't want or expect betterment. What I want is to have my vehicle back with no new problems. My actuator has 130k miles. Fair, in my mind, is to source one of similar miles so that I leave the dealership with a vehicle in the same condition it was in when I delivered it plus a new set of head gaskets which I will gladly pay for.

 

[hearno]

Womp... I figured the video was real and the joke was it was his truck.

 

[Ralph Blake]

But again, here we are simply accusing the dealership of "destroying" it and demanding that they fix it.

They took it apart yes, in the pursuit of diagnosis. They told you what is wrong, and what needs to be replaced.


The lines are too blurred. Like I said, if it is OP's intent to have this repaired at no charge to himself(obvious intention), he needs to go to another dealer, have the findings confirmed, and report directly to Toyota with the evidence/findings. They will either ask him to pound sand or write the repair off and have dealership fix it as a goodwill repair.

Funny when they not him drove it inside their service Dept. there was nothing wrong with it,it was not stuck in 4wd and there was no service person saying then there was a problem.
After the head gasket job and they tried driving it out of service Dept. Oh No! hey guy "YOU" got a BIG problem.
Now what lines are too blurred? Do we all need new eye glass's? Seems Pretty clear to me,the dealers service guy made a BIG mistake.

 

[av8ter]

If only there was another dealer within 150 miles, I would do that.

Also, I'm not demanding a new actuator. I don't want or expect betterment. What I want is to have my vehicle back with no new problems. My actuator has 130k miles. Fair, in my mind, is to source one of similar miles so that I leave the dealership with a vehicle in the same condition it was in when I delivered it plus a new set of head gaskets which I will gladly pay for.

Why would they install something that the couldn't warranty?

 

[fdbyrne]

One thing that I find a little odd is that they haven't even offered a discount on the work or parts. In theory, they could sell me the part at cost and charge me the actual hourly rate that they pay their techs to install it and they would lose nothing on the deal but extend a pretty big olive branch. I'm not saying that I would or wouldn't take it at this point, but it would be a start.

 

[fdbyrne]

Why would they install something that the couldn't warranty?

They did actually give me two quotes today for a new actuator and one was for a salvaged part. A new one installed would be about $2600. The quote for the salvaged one would only save me about $300 by their estimate. Their quotes figured in 12 hours of labor. Without access to all-data I really don't know whether or not that 12 hours is accurate. It seems high to me.

 

[xxaarraa]

They did actually give me two quotes today for a new actuator and one was for a salvaged part. A new one installed would be about $2600. The quote for the salvaged one would only save me about $300 by their estimate. Their quotes figured in 12 hours of labor. Without access to all-data I really don't know whether or not that 12 hours is accurate. It seems high to me.

I am not sure why you keep hemming and hawing about taking them to task. You handed over a working truck, and they broke the actuator, and you are asking us if $2600 is a good quote for them to fix it?

It seems to me from reading all your self-consolation that you are going to do whatever the dealer tells you to do anyway. What answers are you wanting to hear from us?

 

[Ralph Blake]

After reading their offer and there is no other Toyota dealer within 150 miles. I would have my 4Runner towed from that dealer to a good garage and have them fix my 4Runner. If I did have to pay for the extra work the Toyota dealer was asking, i would pay them to get my 4Runner out then look into legal action to recover.
Now it's up to the OP to do what he feels is better for him and his 4Runner,i don't think Toyota Corp. is going to do anything for him.