Tire Decisions, Worth it to go Taller/Heavier?

[Unner]

I'll be needing new tires here in the not so distant future. Several different sizes are listed below, but I'd like to stay with a skinny tire to keep resistance down, MPG up, power up, better traction offroad, and to keep rubbing issues down unless someone can make a compelling argument to go to a 285. The things I like about the 285's are the availability of more tires, and I can get white letters... That said I've been doing a lot of reading on weight vs diameter of tires and which is worse for acceleration/MPGs. It sounds like diameter has a greater effect than weight because it messes with the gearing, but if you increase one you usually increase the other... I like the way the truck drives currently, it's not fast obviously, but I can still easily keep up with traffic and merge quickly if I put my foot in it.

Of course I would love to go to a taller tire, but I'm not sure if it's worth the draw backs. I'd also like my next set of tires to have better traction in the rain than my current BFG KMs.

Here's what I'm looking at right now. All prices are for a set of 5 and BFG prices include the $50 rebate they have through Monday. The MTR's have an $80 rebate through the end of May that is included in the price.

Tires by Unner Unner, on Flickr

Of course I can try and make my tires last until the next eBay Discount Tire sale, but I don't know when that will be. (Anyone know?) I don't need new tires now, but they're around 5/32" left and have some decent chunking and dry rot cracking now. They're 7 years old according to the date stamp, despite being "new" just 3 years ago... Waiting until that sale makes the ST Maxx $944 for a set of 5, but not sure about the others if they'd be any cheaper or even available. I know the last sale didn't include the KO2 in 255/75/17 at least.

For the load range I'd like to stick with C-D I think to keep the ride decent, but I'm not sure how it would ride on E load tires honestly. She is pretty heavy now. I'd guess 5,200 lbs with me in it and nothing else. Loaded up on trips it's near 6,000 lbs if not more. I also keep reading about BFG's not being true to size and running small. Not sure how true this is, but it's in the back of my mind...

Right now I'm leaning towards 255/75/17 in the KO2, or MTR. The MTR really interests me since it is aggressive, taller, and has strong sidewalls, but I don't know about tread life, noise, and wet traction.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or personal experience to share?

 

[theesotericone]

Any thoughts, suggestions, or personal experience to share?

I feel your pain man. I'm in the same boat going through the same selection process. My current 265/70R16's probably have at least another 10,000 on them. They'll most likely be retired before then though. So, not only do I have to figure out how big I want to go but I need to figure out if I really need new wheels. I WANT 17's but do I need them. lol

I plan on re-gearing anyway in the future so I think I can live with the larger size power trade offs for a year or so. I think. Damn, there's a lot of thinking in this seemingly simple decision.

If you want sidewall protection check out the newish General Grabber X3's. Triple ply sidewall and I believe you can get LT255/75R17's in a C range with them. Black or red walls though. lol

Good luck man.

 

[JayRolla]

I read all you posted but didnt see anything about how you use your truck. It really sounds like your just worried about on road performance. Did not see anything about offroad.

If so I suggest staying small and going with a street tire and at most an A/T. These will give you the best onroad traction, MPG, and less power loss.

 

[DK327]

Next Discount Tire sale should be around Memorial Day, hoping for $150 visa card with a set of 4 tires; that's when I got mine last year and got that deal. As for MY next purchase, I'll be getting a set of proper dedicated winter tires, probably Nokian Hakka whatever. Right now I'm riding on 265/75R16 Hercules Ironman All Country A/T's; with 8K miles on em and over 90% or tread remains, bought 5 new and already did a 5-tire rotation @ 5K miles. Good luck with your decision!

 

[Co4Fun]

Nitto Ridge Grappler.

Game changer for big rubber. The only 285/70 or 75 you can get in a C which I highly recommend for both off road pliability and to save a little weight. Kudos to Nitto for not following the one load range offering market. We with smaller vehicles lose all the way around on this. No need for 8-10 ply and I have wheeled them pretty good. So much more compliant off road and on. Also the tread is way better in snow and much quieter on pavement than a full MT. Worth a look.

You will have to go 17's but could be worth it!

http://m.nittotire.com/light-truck-tires/ridge-grappler-light-truck-tire/

 

[Unner]

I feel your pain man. I'm in the same boat going through the same selection process. My current 265/70R16's probably have at least another 10,000 on them. They'll most likely be retired before then though. So, not only do I have to figure out how big I want to go but I need to figure out if I really need new wheels. I WANT 17's but do I need them. lol

I plan on re-gearing anyway in the future so I think I can live with the larger size power trade offs for a year or so. I think. Damn, there's a lot of thinking in this seemingly simple decision.

If you want sidewall protection check out the newish General Grabber X3's. Triple ply sidewall and I believe you can get LT255/75R17's in a C range with them. Black or red walls though. lol

Good luck man.

I don't want to regear, that's not in my plans in the near future. Maybe in several years I'll make that happen, but not now.

I like the new X3's, but General tires are always so heavy it seems. Their specs on the new X3 seem way off. It shows the 255/75/17 as 30.3" and 64 lbs! I'd definitely rock the red letters out, but the 255/75/17 only comes in black side wall.

I read all you posted but didnt see anything about how you use your truck. It really sounds like your just worried about on road performance. Did not see anything about offroad.

If so I suggest staying small and going with a street tire and at most an A/T. These will give you the best onroad traction, MPG, and less power loss.

Forgot to mention that I suppose. The truck is a daily driver so it sees a lot of pavement, but I get out and wheel as often as I can. I don't do extreme rock crawling, but street tires won't do either. I like having the ability to go pretty much wherever I want. I guess I'm more worried about on-road performance because most of the tires I'm looking at should perform good/about the same off road.

Next Discount Tire sale should be around Memorial Day, hoping for $150 visa card with a set of 4 tires; that's when I got mine last year and got that deal. As for MY next purchase, I'll be getting a set of proper dedicated winter tires, probably Nokian Hakka whatever. Right now I'm riding on 265/75R16 Hercules Ironman All Country A/T's; with 8K miles on em and over 90% or tread remains, bought 5 new and already did a 5-tire rotation @ 5K miles. Good luck with your decision!

Thanks for that info! Good thing is I don't really need to worry about snow down here.

 

[Unner]

Nitto Ridge Grappler.

Game changer for big rubber. The only 285/70 or 75 you can get in a C which I highly recommend for both off road pliability and to save a little weight. Kudos to Nitto for not following the one load range offering market. We with smaller vehicles lose all the way around on this. No need for 8-10 ply and I have wheeled them pretty good. So much more compliant off road and on. Also the tread is way better in snow and much quieter on pavement than a full MT. Worth a look.

You will have to go 17's but could be worth it!

http://m.nittotire.com/light-truck-tires/ridge-grappler-light-truck-tire/

Wow, a C load 285! Thanks for showing me this. I'll look into this a little more.

How are they on wet (rainy) roads?

 

[Nightglow]

I went with the 255/75/17 Duratacs after several recommendations for our local Colorado Overlanding group. They are true to 32-inch diameter and with the Discount Tire rebates of $100 (Presidents Day Special) and $60 (buy set of 4) I was under $700 out the door and rolling. They are quiet and I had a slight increase in MPG (19ish) over the factory street tires as they are a little thinner and the same weight (40.5lbs?) Some say that they get louder after 40K miles but at this price, I would just sell them or replace them.

Tire Size255/75R17
Product Code150684601
Speed RatingS
Load Index115
Load RangeSL
SidewallBlack
Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG)500/B/B
Max Load (lbs)2,679
Max Inflation Pressure (PSI)51
Approved Rim Width (in.)6.5 - 8.5
Measured Rim Width (in.)7.0
Section Width (in.)10.0
Tread Depth (in 32nds)16
Outside Diameter (in.)32.0
Revs Per Mile653
Price$180.00

 

[Co4Fun]

Wow, a C load 285! Thanks for showing me this. I'll look into this a little more.



How are they on wet (rainy) roads?

Yep there's a forum on here about them. A lot better in wet and on pavement in general than any MT out there or the higher load ratings. I have been impressed as have others.

Plus Nitto deserves to have a hit with these (and I think they will) because they're focusing on our market...so many vehicles (Jeeps, Runners, Tacos, other SUV's) that can/want to run 285's but have no need for a high load rating. Even off road with sidewalls there is no need for a D or E rated tire (C's are still 6 ply!) and you get better compliance with a C anyway. The other manufacturers just went to higher load ranges to blanket the truck market but again for our rigs I don't think there are any benefits even off road and certainly on pavement. They are a bit lighter than comparable D's and E's though it's more in the 70 than the 75.

Ya check them out and find that thread if you can just google 4Runner Ridge grappler.

 

[Unner]

I went with the 255/75/17 Duratacs after several recommendations for our local Colorado Overlanding group. They are true to 32-inch diameter and with the Discount Tire rebates of $100 (Presidents Day Special) and $60 (buy set of 4) I was under $700 out the door and rolling. They are quiet and I had a slight increase in MPG (19ish) over the factory street tires as they are a little thinner and the same weight (40.5lbs?) Some say that they get louder after 40K miles but at this price, I would just sell them or replace them.

Tire Size255/75R17
Product Code150684601
Speed RatingS
Load Index115
Load RangeSL
SidewallBlack
Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG)500/B/B
Max Load (lbs)2,679
Max Inflation Pressure (PSI)51
Approved Rim Width (in.)6.5 - 8.5
Measured Rim Width (in.)7.0
Section Width (in.)10.0
Tread Depth (in 32nds)16
Outside Diameter (in.)32.0
Revs Per Mile653
Price$180.00

My dad has these tires on his Tacoma. I like the size and how they look. They're great on road traction wise, but I'd be worried about slashing a sidewall on rocks/branches/etc. since they aren't an LT tire. They're not P rated, but not LT rated. I think they're somewhere in between. Kinda like a B load tire. I think when he got his they were $150 each. Crazy cheap for an AT tire!

Yep there's a forum on here about them. A lot better in wet and on pavement in general than any MT out there or the higher load ratings. I have been impressed as have others.

Plus Nitto deserves to have a hit with these (and I think they will) because they're focusing on our market...so many vehicles (Jeeps, Runners, Tacos, other SUV's) that can/want to run 285's but have no need for a high load rating. Even off road with sidewalls there is no need for a D or E rated tire (C's are still 6 ply!) and you get better compliance with a C anyway. The other manufacturers just went to higher load ranges to blanket the truck market but again for our rigs I don't think there are any benefits even off road and certainly on pavement. They are a bit lighter than comparable D's and E's though it's more in the 70 than the 75.

Ya check them out and find that thread if you can just google 4Runner Ridge grappler.

Yeah I never really considered a 285 because they're all D or E load, and really heavy. These look to be 52 lbs and 32.8" tall. I found that thread, it looks like everyone is super happy with them. It looks like they're doing really well with the 4Runner segment so far, lots of 5th gens using them. I see your rig is supercharged, but other than that we look similar in add-ons/weight. How's the power/MPG with them?

 

[Co4Fun]

Yeah I never really considered a 285 because they're all D or E load, and really heavy. These look to be 52 lbs and 32.8" tall. I found that thread, it looks like everyone is super happy with them. It looks like they're doing really well with the 4Runner segment so far, lots of 5th gens using them. I see your rig is supercharged, but other than that we look similar in add-ons/weight. How's the power/MPG with them?

So that 52 lb mark is for the 70's and I do think that's close but look at the link I posted. Nitto has them a bit more than that at around 57 but still great for a 285. The 75's even though C's are quite a bit heavier...as you can see on the specs basically 10lbs heavier and you can tell.

Ya power is good. Long story but at first I had the 70's and again, honestly they were quite a bit lighter and that coupled with the bit smaller diameter left me plenty of power with the 4:10's. So honestly it did drive a bit better with the 70's overall. I then went on the 75's when they came out bc I have the lift for it and wanted that little bit more clearance for wheeling when aired down. They are not bad at all, but I did notice a little power loss with the 75's mostly off the line...highway and even up the passes is not really noticeable and ECT gets me a bit back but of course at the cost of fuel.

The only other thing is that braking is a bit diminished...again more noticeable with the 75's. Not crazy and still better than my Jeep was with 35's but it is making me consider the tundra brake upgrade. But hey since I have 17's now I'll have plenty of room for that.

But ya these are rare birds and I looked and did my homework. No other 285's in C's to be had and happily these are great tires as well. Better highway manners than most aggressive models (and no slouch off-road) but still the aggressive look on tread and sidewalls (plus two sidewall mounting options.)

 

[Scramble]

End of Sept/beginning of Oct for DTD sale on E-bay.
My (4) Hankook M/T's were $600 after sale & rebate. 285/70/17
I would go A/T's if this was my DD.

 

[Road Bull]

Discount Tire ebay sale runs in March and October. Last sale was $100 off per $450. I got 4 285s for for $708 just for reference.

I jumped on the sale last month and got a larger version of what I already had. I had BFG KO2 265/75/16 (E) and I went up to BFG KO2 285/75/16 (E).

It doesn't seem like we can rub two days together since winter where it hasn't rained. I do a lot of highway driving in the rain. I have never gotten a bad feeling from the rain driving on highways. I know people might tell you otherwise, but a BFG KO2 in an E rating doesn't seem harsh at all. And since going up a size to 285s, it seems plush even at 35psi. They seem to soak up smaller cracks and whatnot with ease. I love these tires!

Size wise, I am on the fence. I love the way they look. And after driving around for about 1K miles I don't really notice too much of a difference with stock 2002 gearing. I would be happy with either really. The 285s push me into wanting other expensive things like rear tire carriers that you can easily get away with not needing with 265/75/16s. I still need to do a little trimming of the back of my front wheel and hammer down a bit of the pinch weld to keep from rubbing when I am in reverse and parking. Other than that they don't rub with 4"BS wheels. But my 265/75/16s didn't really put me off the way they do for some.

I don't think re-gearing is necessary if you jumped up to the 285s. It is most noticeable when you make the change, but after about 200+ miles, it will be the new normal. These things aren't sports cars.

Those Nitto Ridge Grapplers look like a cool design. I would be interested to see how they are on and offroad though.

 

[zoombyu86]

265/75

I currently have 265/75/16 on my 4runner lifted ~3" in the front and ~4" in the rear. I never look at it and wish I went wider or taller. I was able to run these on stock and while lifted, I love it and i never noticed a difference in power.

I currently have the Wild Country XTX A/T, they are a beast in the snow, quiet on the road, but have yet to take off road. My buddy manages a local Tireman and he wheels his 6"+ cherokee and he wheels these unless he plans to mud, then switches to mud terrain. He said that even being able to get the BFG (or any tires) for just slightly more at his cost, he still prefers these.

I have white out on mine

 

[JayRolla]

I would go 285 if this is a trail/daily.

I still don't get the skinny tire. I felt my off road traction was better on my wide 305s and airing down for more footprint is like day and night better.

 

[Co4Fun]

I would go 285 if this is a trail/daily.

I still don't get the skinny tire. I felt my off road traction was better on my wide 305s and airing down for more footprint is like day and night better.

My brother (an engineer) and I have talked this to death and still have no concrete answer.

I think that's of course because it's VERY dependent on the given conditions. From experience, we can all probably identify the extremes...a skinny tire for cutting through certain types of mud or snow, a wide tire for sand, etc. I went with a happy medium I suppose in 285/75's. I don't know. My grandpa rolled his Willy's over all the same trails we do in CO today and he swore by tall and skinny (like 33x9's which you can't even get anymore lol.)

In my experience, more importantly I think is the rubber compound and tread. There is nothing like new rubber. And, as anyone can gather from my post I think that there's also a balance with load range / plys because a lesser ply tire is more compliant and exponentially so when aired down. In addition I have experimented with grooving tires that were around 60% or less and wow did that make a difference on most terrains as well. This I believe is because it both opens up more vertical surface area for grabbing as well as again making the tire more flexible.

The conversation continues...plenty in the overland groups on this.

 

[rkntoy]

I went back and forth with the same thing for my daily driver tires. With numerous road trips to random, isolated places I finally decided to go with 285's because I felt like they would be more readily available should something happen.

 

[JayRolla]

My brother (an engineer) and I have talked this to death and still have no concrete answer.

I think that's of course because it's VERY dependent on the given conditions. From experience, we can all probably identify the extremes...a skinny tire for cutting through certain types of mud or snow, a wide tire for sand, etc. I went with a happy medium I suppose in 285/75's. I don't know. My grandpa rolled his Willy's over all the same trails we do in CO today and he swore by tall and skinny (like 33x9's which you can't even get anymore lol.)

In my experience, more importantly I think is the rubber compound and tread. There is nothing like new rubber. And, as anyone can gather from my post I think that there's also a balance with load range / plys because a lesser ply tire is more compliant and exponentially so when aired down. In addition I have experimented with grooving tires that were around 60% or less and wow did that make a difference on most terrains as well. This I believe is because it both opens up more vertical surface area for grabbing as well as again making the tire more flexible.

The conversation continues...plenty in the overland groups on this.

Nothing like real life experience. The kedge grip Treadwrights with glass and walnut particles is an amazing offroad tire.

 

[Unner]

Sorry I couldn't reply yesterday, I had a busy day...

So that 52 lb mark is for the 70's and I do think that's close but look at the link I posted. Nitto has them a bit more than that at around 57 but still great for a 285. The 75's even though C's are quite a bit heavier...as you can see on the specs basically 10lbs heavier and you can tell.

Ya power is good. Long story but at first I had the 70's and again, honestly they were quite a bit lighter and that coupled with the bit smaller diameter left me plenty of power with the 4:10's. So honestly it did drive a bit better with the 70's overall. I then went on the 75's when they came out bc I have the lift for it and wanted that little bit more clearance for wheeling when aired down. They are not bad at all, but I did notice a little power loss with the 75's mostly off the line...highway and even up the passes is not really noticeable and ECT gets me a bit back but of course at the cost of fuel.

The only other thing is that braking is a bit diminished...again more noticeable with the 75's. Not crazy and still better than my Jeep was with 35's but it is making me consider the tundra brake upgrade. But hey since I have 17's now I'll have plenty of room for that.

But ya these are rare birds and I looked and did my homework. No other 285's in C's to be had and happily these are great tires as well. Better highway manners than most aggressive models (and no slouch off-road) but still the aggressive look on tread and sidewalls (plus two sidewall mounting options.)

I think Nittos website is wrong on the weight. It shows both the 70 and 75 as being 58 lbs. I got the 52 lb number from someone on Tacomaworld who weighed theirs on a scale. It looked like others were around the 54-55 mark though.

End of Sept/beginning of Oct for DTD sale on E-bay.
My (4) Hankook M/T's were $600 after sale & rebate. 285/70/17
I would go A/T's if this was my DD.

That might be too long for me to wait...

Discount Tire ebay sale runs in March and October. Last sale was $100 off per $450. I got 4 285s for for $708 just for reference.

I jumped on the sale last month and got a larger version of what I already had. I had BFG KO2 265/75/16 (E) and I went up to BFG KO2 285/75/16 (E).

It doesn't seem like we can rub two days together since winter where it hasn't rained. I do a lot of highway driving in the rain. I have never gotten a bad feeling from the rain driving on highways. I know people might tell you otherwise, but a BFG KO2 in an E rating doesn't seem harsh at all. And since going up a size to 285s, it seems plush even at 35psi. They seem to soak up smaller cracks and whatnot with ease. I love these tires!

Size wise, I am on the fence. I love the way they look. And after driving around for about 1K miles I don't really notice too much of a difference with stock 2002 gearing. I would be happy with either really. The 285s push me into wanting other expensive things like rear tire carriers that you can easily get away with not needing with 265/75/16s. I still need to do a little trimming of the back of my front wheel and hammer down a bit of the pinch weld to keep from rubbing when I am in reverse and parking. Other than that they don't rub with 4"BS wheels. But my 265/75/16s didn't really put me off the way they do for some.

I don't think re-gearing is necessary if you jumped up to the 285s. It is most noticeable when you make the change, but after about 200+ miles, it will be the new normal. These things aren't sports cars.

Those Nitto Ridge Grapplers look like a cool design. I would be interested to see how they are on and offroad though.

The rear swing out I already have, so that's good. The bad thing is that means I need to buy a set of 5 tires which makes it more expensive. But if I do a 5 tire rotation I should get 20% more life out of the tires so it's really only more expensive up front.

I currently have 265/75/16 on my 4runner lifted ~3" in the front and ~4" in the rear. I never look at it and wish I went wider or taller. I was able to run these on stock and while lifted, I love it and i never noticed a difference in power.

I currently have the Wild Country XTX A/T, they are a beast in the snow, quiet on the road, but have yet to take off road. My buddy manages a local Tireman and he wheels his 6"+ cherokee and he wheels these unless he plans to mud, then switches to mud terrain. He said that even being able to get the BFG (or any tires) for just slightly more at his cost, he still prefers these.

I have white out on mine

That's kinda why I'm still thinking about the 255/75/17. It's not a huge tire, but big enough probably. Occasionally I do look at the truck and wish I had bigger tires though...

I would go 285 if this is a trail/daily.

I still don't get the skinny tire. I felt my off road traction was better on my wide 305s and airing down for more footprint is like day and night better.

My brother (an engineer) and I have talked this to death and still have no concrete answer.

I think that's of course because it's VERY dependent on the given conditions. From experience, we can all probably identify the extremes...a skinny tire for cutting through certain types of mud or snow, a wide tire for sand, etc. I went with a happy medium I suppose in 285/75's. I don't know. My grandpa rolled his Willy's over all the same trails we do in CO today and he swore by tall and skinny (like 33x9's which you can't even get anymore lol.)

In my experience, more importantly I think is the rubber compound and tread. There is nothing like new rubber. And, as anyone can gather from my post I think that there's also a balance with load range / plys because a lesser ply tire is more compliant and exponentially so when aired down. In addition I have experimented with grooving tires that were around 60% or less and wow did that make a difference on most terrains as well. This I believe is because it both opens up more vertical surface area for grabbing as well as again making the tire more flexible.

The conversation continues...plenty in the overland groups on this.

I think in a controlled test, skinnier tires would give better traction since there's more weight on the contact patch of the tire, versus a wider tire which has the weight more spread out. Of course this all goes out the window when you start comparing different tires, tread patters, compounds, etc. Really whatever works best for you is the best option.

I went back and forth with the same thing for my daily driver tires. With numerous road trips to random, isolated places I finally decided to go with 285's because I felt like they would be more readily available should something happen.

This is also a good point. The good news is the 255/80/17 is the same height as a 285 so worst case they'd be interchangeable sorta as a quick fix to get you by.

Nothing like real life experience. The kedge grip Treadwrights with glass and walnut particles is an amazing offroad tire.

Real life experience is the best thing when it comes to tire decisions. Unfortunately I don't really have any with the tires/sizes I'm looking at haha

 

[Road Bull]

Sounds like you want of stick with the 255/80/17s. I would be leaning towards those Nitto Ridge Grapplers. They look like an aggressive AT similar to Goodyear Duratracs, but a bit more aggressive.