TonyB66's Ownership -> Build Thread (2000 Limited)

[TonyB66]

Good thinking Brian. Now that you mention that (creating a future use lead), I've done just that before, most recently in my MINI a few years back. I'll certainly consider that...

The BlueSea fuse box is something that intrigues me and I imagine I'll go down the path at some point when I delve further into auxiliary lighting and power needs. Looking at winches right now actually.

Thanks again.

 

[octanejunkie]

You got the gist of it. But unlike a crimp, I want the ability to disco, so some kind release mechanism, or as in the j box provided earlier, pop it open and remove what I want. I've taken that approach on home wiring projects...

I'm currently thinking of such a box for running/parking lights, and one for turn signals. As an example, if I want to add another turn signal, just loosen two screw insert, and tighten...

I think you can easily accomplish this with in-line connectors.

you can fit 3 x 22ga wires into a connector for a single 14-16ga wire, 18ga if you strip the jackets back far enough.

I'd not use a water tight box like that, too bulky for my taste.

Check out these, there may be others too

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014IU2EE2/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_uk4lCbE54K912

 

[TonyB66]

...I read that thread a while back too.

I'm not going to pontificate or argue, but if motorcycles went from being air-cooled to water-cooled, and every gas-powered consumer car company combines the trans cooler with the radiator, there has to be a good reason. It is my opinion that the pink milkshake is an anomaly that occurs due to neglect or other cause; it is avoidable not inevitable.

Mike, thanks for addressing this topic. I wanted to have more time to thoughtfully respond...

While what you say makes sense, and I thought of that too, I also know that car manufacturers do things for other reasons, like to cut costs, save money. An adequate solution for some generic intended use can often be more desirable for the manufacturer's bottomline than a different solution that performs better, but costs more. And, they are often only concerned about performance for x number of years or y number of miles, where they are under obligation (warranty period). With such constraints, those solutions make a ton of sense. Those are not factors now, at least for me.

After much reading, I do agree that the pink milkshake is a bit a boogeyman for us. The cooling agent of ambient air versus the incorporation of engine coolant at around 190-200 F is a noteworthy difference. I can change the routing to series later should the data dictate. If ATF temps are let's say in the 160-180 range, that would be pretty dang sweet. But, if I encounter instances like when I'm hauling the family of four and all of our stuff up steep grades, the trailer too at some point, and temps shoot above 200, approaching 220+, I'll then look into series. After much reading though, the feedback is that such a dedicated unit, especially with 20k+ BTU of cooling capacity, will work very well. And, if I can eliminate the possibility of the comingling of fluids, sure why not.

I think you can easily accomplish this with in-line connectors.

you can fit 3 x 22ga wires into a connector for a single 14-16ga wire, 18ga if you strip the jackets back far enough.

I'd not use a water tight box like that, too bulky for my taste.

If there were going to be a lot of connections, I'd go the box route, but after some addtional thought, I'm not forecasting such a need for more running lights and turn signals, so those connectors or even the simpler spades will suffice. Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[octanejunkie]

After much reading, I do agree that the pink milkshake is a bit a boogeyman for us. The cooling agent of ambient air versus the incorporation of engine coolant at around 190-200 F is a noteworthy difference. I can change the routing to series later should the data dictate. If ATF temps are let's say in the 160-180 range, that would be pretty dang sweet. But, if I encounter instances like when I'm hauling the family of four and all of our stuff up steep grades, the trailer too at some point, and temps shoot above 200, approaching 220+, I'll then look into series. After much reading though, the feedback is that such a dedicated unit, especially with 20k+ BTU of cooling capacity, will work very well. And, if I can eliminate the possibility of the comingling of fluids, sure why not.

If you bypass then I recommend a dedicated cooling fan on the trans cooler for low rpm cooling. You can manually or thermostatically switch it but low speed towing uphill in the summer with just passive trans cooling and you might as well just set your transmission on fire and roast marshmallows in the pyre that it will become

 

[TonyB66]

If you bypass then I recommend a dedicated cooling fan on the trans cooler for low rpm cooling. You can manually or thermostatically switch it but low speed towing uphill in the summer with just passive trans cooling and you might as well just set your transmission on fire and roast marshmallows in the pyre that it will become

Now, that's the kind of feedback I was after Mike. That is a scenario that concerns me. I imagine such a fan might be needed in series too. Either way, I've been looking into fans and related options. Won't be towing for a while anyways. It's certainly nice to be able to monitor ATF temps real-time. Should there be a concern, I'll let it cool, get through the trip and once back home convert to series and see to what degree that helps.

 

[octanejunkie]

Now, that's the kind of feedback I was after Mike. That is a scenario that concerns me. I imagine such a fan might be needed in series too. Either way, I've been looking into fans and related options. Won't be towing for a while anyways. It's certainly nice to be able to monitor ATF temps real-time. Should there be a concern, I'll let it cool, get through the trip and once back home convert to series and see to what degree that helps.

[MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] has a nice aux cooler setup, I have all the parts he used saved in an Amazon list I can forward you. He is using a manual switch because he ran his AUX cooler correctly (in series :angel and only uses the aux fan when wheeling, but upgrading to a thermostatic switch ain't hard for fan auto on and off

In reality, increasing your trans fluid volume will help as much if not more than a cooling fan, because the fluid is cycled via the trans pump which is RPM dependant - the fluid is only in front of the fan as long as the pump dictates.

As far as monitoring trans temp, I use Torque Pro on my phone with a BAFX https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLQAHS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but your scangauge should do the trick for you. I rely on Torque Pro when wheeling more than any other gadget or gizmo

 

[TonyB66]

[MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] has a nice aux cooler setup, I have all the parts he used saved in an Amazon list I can forward you. He is using a manual switch because he ran his AUX cooler correctly (in series :angel and only uses the aux fan when wheeling, but upgrading to a thermostatic switch ain't hard for fan auto on and off

In reality, increasing your trans fluid volume will help as much if not more than a cooling fan, because the fluid is cycled via the trans pump which is RPM dependant - the fluid is only in front of the fan as long as the pump dictates.

As far as monitoring trans temp, I use Torque Pro on my phone with a BAFX https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLQAHS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but your scangauge should do the trick for you. I rely on Torque Pro when wheeling more than any other gadget or gizmo

Mike, all ears and eyes... Sure, curious what theesotericone has and leverage his experience. That's the whole point of this community! When there is not sufficient forward motion, yet plenty of load, an aux fan or more control of the main one is seemingly a must in any set-up.

Well, I got those lights and made short work of it...

I want to use them as parking lights only. And, I really do want to have front turn signals up high, so the corner parking light will serve double duty as Charlie shared earlier. I just marked-up the above photo for what I'd like to achieve...

Some not so good news. I won't be working on the transmission cooler this weekend. It seems that it just shipped today. I ordered it on the 29th, so not sure why it took so long...

I decided upon a winch though and ordered it earlier today: Smittybilt X20 (98510). Should be here Tuesday...

 

[theesotericone]

Mike, all ears and eyes... Sure, curious what theesotericone has and leverage his experience. That's the whole point of this community! When there is not sufficient forward motion, yet plenty of load, an aux fan or more control of the main one is seemingly a must in any set-up.

I went with a Hayden 678, a 7" amazon fan and an in-cab rocker to power the fan when I want too. I made a mounting bracket for it out of some spare aluminum I had laying around and everything fits, barely.

The only disadvantage to Hayden is they do not have a thermal by-pass valve. They are cheaper then B&M by far. My whole set-up was less then 65 bucks. I like manual control of my fan but using a thermo control that kicks on at 180 or so then kicks off at 170 would also be fine.

I ran mine in series with my rad, which is less then 2 years old. I plumbed the aux cooler first. Not because that's the "best" way but because it was the easiest way to route the plumbing out of my way.

On the hottest days, going up the steepest grades, I hardly ever see anything over 180. Wheeling it's even better. I kick the fan on and my temps stay at 160-170 over the hardest trails. If I forget to turn that fan on I'll see 190 real quick.

 

[TonyB66]

I went with a Hayden 678, a 7" amazon fan and an in-cab rocker to power the fan when I want too. I made a mounting bracket for it out of some spare aluminum I had laying around and everything fits, barely.

The only disadvantage to Hayden is they do not have a thermal by-pass valve. They are cheaper then B&M by far. My whole set-up was less then 65 bucks. I like manual control of my fan but using a thermo control that kicks on at 180 or so then kicks off at 170 would also be fine.

I ran mine in series with my rad, which is less then 2 years old. I plumbed the aux cooler first. Not because that's the "best" way but because it was the easiest way to route the plumbing out of my way.

On the hottest days, going up the steepest grades, I hardly ever see anything over 180. Wheeling it's even better. I kick the fan on and my temps stay at 160-170 over the hardest trails. If I forget to turn that fan on I'll see 190 real quick.

I actually started a thread on the Hayden 678 a week or so back.

Hayden 678 Transmission Cooler

Quite a bit for 45 bucks!

The 678 is just .75" thick. Do you recall the depth (front/back) of your fan? With your set-up less than 65 dollars, maybe you got this fan?

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00T3T7IJU/ref=twister_B07CKSCXHR?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[theesotericone]

I actually started a thread on the Hayden 678 a week or so back.

Hayden 678 Transmission Cooler

Quite a bit for 45 bucks!

The 678 is just .75" thick. Do you recall the depth (front/back) of your fan? With your set-up less than 65 dollars, maybe you got this fan?

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00T3T7IJU/ref=twister_B07CKSCXHR?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

LOL. That's the fan.

I don't recall the depth but it does fit. Here's the only shot I took while I was doing the install.

If you go with the same fan there's one thing you need to do. You have to convert it from a pull fan to a push fan. From the factory it's set to pull air from the rear and pass it to the front. You'll want it set to push air from the front to the rear. It takes less then 5 minutes to do.

Undo the nut that holds the fan to the shaft. Pull the fan off. Flip the fan over. Put the fan back on. Re-install the nut. When you wire it wire it in reverse. Positive to neg and neg to pos. That will spin the motor backwards, which causes no harm to electric motors, and just like that you now have a push fan.

 

[octanejunkie]

I used this Hayden Automotive 3651 Adjustable Thermostatic Fan Control to control the electric fan on the Chevy truck in my signature, still going strong after 10+ years.

For a trans setup, you will have to plumb the probe into the system but the adjustable controller makes it easy to setup the fan, so the probe doesn't need to be in the optimal spot. I would also install a manual override switch in the cab to turn the fan on, like Matt does, when wheeling or towing, for piece of mind.

 

[octanejunkie]

I want to use them as parking lights only. And, I really do want to have front turn signals up high, so the corner parking light will serve double duty as Charlie shared earlier. I just marked-up the above photo for what I'd like to achieve...

Well you made quick work of that lol and you have revitalized my interest in making my marker lights flash with the turn signals

 

[TonyB66]

LOL. That's the fan.

I don't recall the depth but it does fit. Here's the only shot I took while I was doing the install.

If you go with the same fan there's one thing you need to do. You have to convert it from a pull fan to a push fan. From the factory it's set to pull air from the rear and pass it to the front. You'll want it set to push air from the front to the rear. It takes less then 5 minutes to do.

Undo the nut that holds the fan to the shaft. Pull the fan off. Flip the fan over. Put the fan back on. Re-install the nut. When you wire it wire it in reverse. Positive to neg and neg to pos. That will spin the motor backwards, which causes no harm to electric motors, and just like that you now have a push fan.

Some good deduction I suppose (finding your fan).

For this application, I like that you are pushing with the fan. I've flipped a prop before so I follow you. Nice job Matt.

I think this is the first tranny cooler I've seen mounted on the driver side. Curious as to why that location. Maybe has to do with other stuff you have installed. Looks like you have an Engo winch, as I see the box there...

I've had oil and tranny coolers in other locations too, not just stacked behind the grille. I'm curious if there might be another spot for us with decent air flow and safe from impact. To Mike's point earlier that I have yet to respond (sorry), adding more volume or capacity often makes for improvements alright. I've seen this no matter the fluid. That said, if that fluid manages to get too hot, it can take much longer to cool down...

I'm not under my truck now, but I'm pondering the feasibility of a rear mounted tranny cooler. A simple funnel or ducting system, if there is space for such, would ensure it gets sufficient airflow. Still have a fan of course, on the back pulling... I've done fans within ducting before too, as another possibility. Due to the lengths of plumbing involved, there would be increased volume too.

If this looks to be desirable, it would also be a win because there would be less stacking of heat exchangers up front which makes for degradation, the radiator taking the brunt of it (hotter than ambient acting as the cooling agent)...

Since our rigs are 20 years old, I imagine someone has already done this or figured-out it's not beneficial. I'll do some searching...

Matt, did you upgrade your alternator, CS144 or other? Running a winch, a fan, and other items, I'm guessing you might have.

 

[TonyB66]

Well you made quick work of that lol and you have revitalized my interest in making my marker lights flash with the turn signals

Well, your thread was the impetus, then Charlie's willingness to help as he did...

Note, the lights don't yet function the way I depicted. I'll revisit what Charlie described earlier and figure-out the wiring...

 

[BrianSD_42]

Personally I chose not to bypass the radiator when I added the trans cooler. If your radiator was recently replaced (with legit OEM) then you really should have nothing at all to worry about with regards to a milkshake. With the moderate offroading I do a couple of times a year keeping it close to stock seemed best. I think it just comes down to how you plan to use your rig.
.

 

[theesotericone]

Some good deduction I suppose (finding your fan).

For this application, I like that you are pushing with the fan. I've flipped a prop before so I follow you. Nice job Matt.

I think this is the first tranny cooler I've seen mounted on the driver side. Curious as to why that location. Maybe has to do with other stuff you have installed. Looks like you have an Engo winch, as I see the box there...

I've had oil and tranny coolers in other locations too, not just stacked behind the grille. I'm curious if there might be another spot for us with decent air flow and safe from impact. To Mike's point earlier that I have yet to respond (sorry), adding more volume or capacity often makes for improvements alright. I've seen this no matter the fluid. That said, if that fluid manages to get too hot, it can take much longer to cool down...

I'm not under my truck now, but I'm pondering the feasibility of a rear mounted tranny cooler. A simple funnel or ducting system, if there is space for such, would ensure it gets sufficient airflow. Still have a fan of course, on the back pulling... I've done fans within ducting before too, as another possibility. Due to the lengths of plumbing involved, there would be increased volume too.

If this looks to be desirable, it would also be a win because there would be less stacking of heat exchangers up front which makes for degradation, the radiator taking the brunt of it (hotter than ambient acting as the cooling agent)...

Since our rigs are 20 years old, I imagine someone has already done this or figured-out it's not beneficial. I'll do some searching...

Matt, did you upgrade your alternator, CS144 or other? Running a winch, a fan, and other items, I'm guessing you might have.

As far as other locations go I'm sure you could find somewhere that works. I didn't because the grill gets the highest airflow and was the easiest to plumb. I had the same thought about airflow loss to the rad. I wasn't super concerned but did get some before and after numbers with Torque Pro for coolant temps.

These numbers are on the same road, same air temp, same relative humidity and same speed. Before the aux cooler my rig's coolant temp was 197. After the aux cooler my rigs coolant temp was at 197. I was lazy and didn't record the tenths after the 197 so there could be some difference but it ain't much. lol

I went with driver`side install because the AC line was in the way with a fan on the cooler. There's plenty of room over there and it worked out just fine. With the grill back on I have about 1/4" of clearance from the fan shroud to the back of grill.

I do not have an upgraded alt. I did oversize all my grounds and power wires though. A larger alt will not help you winch longer. A larger, or dual, battery will. There's not a factory alt made that can keep up with a winch demand. It's the battery that does. Larger gauge wires help keep those electrons flowing with minimal friction loss so that's why I only did the Big 3 and didn't replace the stock alt.

Look for a battery with the highest CCA, nominal capacity and reserve you can find. Put your money into it instead of a larger alt. My current battery is an Odyssey 34R PC1500T. 850 CCA, 68Ah nominal, and 135 minute reserve. That bad boy will winch for a long time before it hits low levels. Plus it's AGM.

My old Interstate finally died after winching out of Claw Hammer. It managed to winch me all the way out, 330 yards or so. Then it drove me to camp. 10 miles or so. Then it drove around town for another month. I finally noticed it was starting to get weak and replaced it before it actually died. My point? Get a better battery. lol

 

[octanejunkie]

Well, your thread was the impetus, then Charlie's willingness to help as he did...

Note, the lights don't yet function the way I depicted. I'll revisit what Charlie described earlier and figure-out the wiring...

Personally I will be using the POS wire from the turn signal to trigger a relay to lift/make the ground connection to the marker light to flash it. This way the maker operates like normal, however it only FLASHES when your lights are on. Obviously you need two relays, on per side. Since I always drive with at least my parking lights on, so this is not an issue for me, but if you want to make the markers flash when your lights are off you will need two sets of relays to flash the marker when the vehicle's lights are off and when they are on.

Single relay wiring, ground switched; there are other ways
30 - wired to good body ground (or ground wire you interrupt going from harness TO marker light)
87 - NOT USED
87A - (output) to marker light bulb negative (ground)
86 - (trigger) POS wire from your turn signal
85 - (relay ground) connect to chassis ground (or pigtail from terminal 30)

 

[TonyB66]

Looks like many of my forum email notifications went to spam! Not all for some reason...

It's raining here, but I went under my 4Runner for a bit and I see a couple acceptable places for a tranny cooler. Heck, might even fit inside the bumper, by various holes to get fed ambient air...

Thanks Matt for sharing the before and after coolant data you captured. I imagine if really taxed you'd see more of a delta, but point taken. Your location makes sense for sure. If I mount mine in front of the condenser as well, I too will choose the driver side. That said, my tranny cooler is twice as thick as yours (.75 vs 1.5"). From what you describe, you have only .25" of clearance to the back of grille. If accurate, I won't be able to go with a fan, or that one, and in that location... Hmmm. This might serve as addtional motivation to place it elsewhere.

Really helpful information on the alternator and battery. As you know, I got this 4Runner about a year ago. I did replace the battery shortly after purchase. The specs: 960 CA, 800 CCA, 69.6 Ah, 120 RC, 40 months warranty. So, pretty respectable, but just one battery though. I'm sure there must be some dual battery how-tos here, should I decide to go that route. Glad Brian talked me into the 650# springs. I'll refrain from an alternator upgrade, and put the Big 3 higher up on the to do list... Thanks again.

Mike, with what little I know of automotive electrical, I originally thought relays would be needed. Thanks much. What Charlie did here without relays is not what you are after?

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[TonyB66]

Haven't provided a photo of the truck in a while, and remembered to take one while in the yard today...

And, the UPS guy showed-up. Wasn't expecting this until Monday...

This thing has 0.5" ports. Would 0.5" line be too big to fit snugly on the send and return hard lines?

 

[T4topher]

Haven't provided a photo of the truck in a while, and remembered to take one while in the yard today...

And, the UPS guy showed-up. Wasn't expecting this until Monday...

This thing has 0.5" ports. Would 0.5" line be too big to fit snugly on the send and return hard lines?

Couple things you could do, IMO best option is to get a 3/8”x1/2” barbed reducer. Easiest option though would be to get some electrical tape or other good quality tape and put a few rounds on the hard lines until it’s the correct outside diameter to fit in the hose. I’ve had to do that a few times in my years of plumbing lol.