TPMS and swapping tires

[Scott@Hightech]

First I heard of cloning... Seems like the best solution. No more trips to the shop spring and fall.

What's the process? Do I need a tool on top of the sensors Scott?

To clone the sensors, I take our TPMS tool which is the Wheelrite tech 400+(Not Cheap!!) and read all the sensor data from the sensors on the vehicle. i can then make clones of all the sensors using that tool.

There may be a more "enthusiast" friendly system available. that wouldn't require you to spend as much. Typical cost for us to Clone and Install 4 sensors(parts included) is about 300 bucks.

 

[philsey]

Bah! I just put my snow set on (sans TPMS's) and ignore the silly light for a few months.

 

[1000MPH]

Bah! I just put my snow set on (sans TPMS's) and ignore the silly light for a few months.

TPMS possibly saved my bacon. I think it's worth the cost.

DIY:
Amazon.com: Standard Ignition T55000 TechSmart TPMS Clone Tool: Automotive

I found a good thread in Tacoma world...
TPMS Options for Multiple Wheel Sets (I.e., Winter/Summer, Street/Off-Road, etc.) - Tacoma World Forums

 

[1engineer]

Bah! I just put my snow set on (sans TPMS's) and ignore the silly light for a few months.

TPMS possibly saved my bacon. I think it's worth the cost.

DIY:
Amazon.com: Standard Ignition T55000 TechSmart TPMS Clone Tool: Automotive

I found a good thread in Tacoma world...
TPMS Options for Multiple Wheel Sets (I.e., Winter/Summer, Street/Off-Road, etc.) - Tacoma World Forums

TPMS, first and foremost, simply monitors for a minimum tire pressure (around 27-28 psi) and energizes a light when one of four tires is in this condition. That said, in a sudden loss of pressure event (blowout) the TPMS is useless as you will already know this condition is happening. The same can be said for a substantially low pressure tire. In that condition, your vehicle will have a strange ride and "wallow" over bumps and cracks.

Now, if you have a blowout, especially on the front, ESPECIALLY on the outside tire in a high speed turn, the VSC will help much more than the TPMS. TPMS helps you most with:

Fuel Economy
Premature Tire Wear
Safety if you never visually check your tires. If that's the case though then you probably ignore the light on the dash too.

I can attest to the fact that when a tire starts losing pressure fairly rapidly you do not need the TPMS to let you know. I'm pretty sure fuel economy is the #1 reason for the TPMS.

 

[philsey]

Old timer's story time

This thread reminds me of what happened a couple years ago with my Estrogen-Based Life Form's CRV.

She: Honey (she calls me "Honey"), there's this little light on in my dash. Do you know what it is?

Me: What's it look like?

She: Well, it looks like a little tire that's kindof flat across the bottom.

Me: How long's it been there?

She: 2 or 3 weeks, IDK.

Ah, love the ladies........

(It was 2 lb low. Blew it up. 2 weeks later same thing - nail in it)

As you were....

 

[1000MPH]

What is the number one cause of blowouts? Under-inflation.
I'm impressed that you can sense a low pressure condition. I must have been driving California roads for far too long.

I, for one, am happy that my TPMS warned me of a leaking tire during a road trip, before I noticed any handling issues, and before I got on a 70mph freeway.

It's there, use it if you think it's worth it.

 

[1engineer]

What is the number one cause of blowouts? Under-inflation.
I'm impressed that you can sense a low pressure condition. I must have been driving California roads for far too long.

I, for one, am happy that my TPMS warned me of a leaking tire during a road trip, before I noticed any handling issues, and before I got on a 70mph freeway.

It's there, use it if you think it's worth it.

Glad it helped you! My experience is quite different. Back in my "mini van" days I had a Toyota Sienna. We were on a long trip (two little ones in carseats and the wife) and it was 2:00 am on interstate. My TPMS light came on. I immediately got out, expecting a low tire. I saw no such condition. Got back in and set off looking for a gas station. Checked the tires with a gauge there and confirmed there was no such problem. Bought a gauge (young and dumb and did not carry one cause I had TPMS!) The light went off and stayed off for about an hour. Came back on and pulled off, checked the tires with my new gauge and no issues. Anyway, that stupid thing came off and on several times during that trip and completely un nerved me because at that point I did not know whether it was lying or not! Turned out it was a bad TPMS and only took $300.00 to fix it. My gauge cost me a buck. Since then every vehicle I have had has had the TPMS monitoring. I disregard it, check the tires weekly with a gauge and have never had the light come on since.

Here is a link on the #1 cause of blowouts. Punctures. NPRM on TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING SYSTEM FMVSS No. 138

 

[eddiebx]

TPMS, first and foremost, simply monitors for a minimum tire pressure (around 27-28 psi) and energizes a light when one of four tires is in this condition. That said, in a sudden loss of pressure event (blowout) the TPMS is useless as you will already know this condition is happening. The same can be said for a substantially low pressure tire. In that condition, your vehicle will have a strange ride and "wallow" over bumps and cracks.

Now, if you have a blowout, especially on the front, ESPECIALLY on the outside tire in a high speed turn, the VSC will help much more than the TPMS. TPMS helps you most with:

Fuel Economy
Premature Tire Wear
Safety if you never visually check your tires. If that's the case though then you probably ignore the light on the dash too.

I can attest to the fact that when a tire starts losing pressure fairly rapidly you do not need the TPMS to let you know. I'm pretty sure fuel economy is the #1 reason for the TPMS.

I understand where you are coming from (proper maintenance and observation is key), but I still beg to differ in that it certainly does not hurt to have it. Given the choice, I would definitely try my best to keep it at any cost (reasonably speaking).

Great example is a few years ago, right at the entrance ramp of a highway, I picked up a key in my tire (yes a freakin house door key, don't even ask me how it's possible to run one over and it jump up and puncture your tires). I'm sure you can imagine how fast air was coming out due to the serrated edge of the key (~5psi per minute).

Well anyway, soon as I merged on, the TPMS light came on (before I can hear anything unusual from a tire with low air pressure), I immediately got off the next exit and pulled into a gas station. I would guess that the time between the puncture and pulling into the gas station was less than 3-4 minutes, and by the time I got out of my car to assess the situation the tire was probably at about 15psi tops (visually measured, lol).

By the time I was done putting on the spare, the tire was completely flat. Had I driven even just a few minutes longer my almost brand new tire would've likelly been toast, but fortunately for me the tire shop inspected it and was able to make a repair no problem, 30 dollar fix vs 300 fix

Hence why I stand by my opinion that some dummy lights are not that dumb.

 

[badhabits]

I'm pretty sure fuel economy is the #1 reason for the TPMS.

Ford Explorer low tire pressure fiasco with rollovers and blowouts. This is the reason for the TPMS requirements. I think that the Auto safety board went to far in requiring these but we are stuck with them.

From Wikipedia:
The Firestone and Ford tire controversy|Firestone recall]] in the late 1990s (which was linked to more than 100 deaths from rollovers following tire tread-separation), pushed the Clinton administration to legislate the TREAD Act. The Act mandated the use of a suitable TPMS technology in all light motor vehicles (under 10,000 pounds), to help alert drivers of severe under-inflation events. This act affects all light motor vehicles sold after September 1, 2007. Phase-in started in October 2005 at 20%, and reached 100% for models produced after September 2007. In the United States, as of 2008 and the European Union, as of November 1, 2012, all new passenger car models (M1) released must be equipped with a TPMS. From November 1, 2014, all new passenger cars sold in the European Union must be equipped with TPMS. For N1 vehicles, TPMS are not mandatory, but if a TPMS is fitted, it must comply with the regulation.

:hiding:

 

[Newf4R]

To clone the sensors, I take our TPMS tool which is the Wheelrite tech 400+(Not Cheap!!) and read all the sensor data from the sensors on the vehicle. i can then make clones of all the sensors using that tool.

There may be a more "enthusiast" friendly system available. that wouldn't require you to spend as much. Typical cost for us to Clone and Install 4 sensors(parts included) is about 300 bucks.

Thanks for the reply. Like the posts below, TPMS is a must-have for me.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sh;t out of luck when it comes to cloning my TPMS. I'm in a fairly rural place so I would be blown away if anyone local is into cloning yet. I guess you need the truck to clone the sensor?

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Thanks for the reply. Like the posts below, TPMS is a must-have for me.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sh;t out of luck when it comes to cloning my TPMS. I'm in a fairly rural place so I would be blown away if anyone local is into cloning yet. I guess you need the truck to clone the sensor?

So after thinking about this, IF this is a must have for you, Granted you have access to a tire machine. You could remove your sensors, Ship them to me, I would then have to mount them in wheels, and then clone them. then ship you back 8 sensors. Then you can see if it works. It would be rather costly and at that point you might be better off buying a tool your self and programing each time.

 

[Espresso]

I would then have to mount them in wheels, and then clone them.

Just curious as to why you need to mount them onto a wheel before you're able to clone them? Do the wheels need to be spun on the balancing machine to activate something? Or do they need to be at a certain PSI during the cloning process?

Btw, if you removed an existing set of TPMS from a vehicle and it's just sitting around, is it draining the battery life?

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Just curious as to why you need to mount them onto a wheel before you're able to clone them? Do the wheels need to be spun on the balancing machine to activate something? Or do they need to be at a certain PSI during the cloning process?

Btw, if you removed an existing set of TPMS from a vehicle and it's just sitting around, is it draining the battery life?

In my experience TPMS sensors go into "sleep" mode after a certain period of time. Then they are activated by the pressure change and or rotational speed. I have never been able to read a sensor outside of a wheel and tire.

 

[Yotta]

The relevant part from Wikipedia:

"Most originally fitted dTPMS have the sensors mounted on the inside of the rims and the batteries are not exchangeable. With a battery change then meaning that the whole sensor will have to be replaced and the exchange being possible only with the tires dismounted, the lifetime of the battery becomes a crucial parameter. To save energy and prolong battery life, many dTPMS sensors hence do not transmit information when not rotating (which also keeps the spare tire from being monitored) or apply a complex and expensive two-way communication which enables an active wake-up of the sensor by the vehicle."

 

[Newf4R]

So after thinking about this, IF this is a must have for you, Granted you have access to a tire machine. You could remove your sensors, Ship them to me, I would then have to mount them in wheels, and then clone them. then ship you back 8 sensors. Then you can see if it works. It would be rather costly and at that point you might be better off buying a tool your self and programing each time.

Thanks Scott. It's an option. I really don't want to have to go to the shop every spring and fall and fight the crowds to get in just for sensors. Half the reason for two sets of wheels is so I can make the quick switch in my own garage. I'm going to keep this in mind for the spring. Appreciate the info!!

 

[sven]

So when I get my tires done should hand my tire tech four new batteries and ask him to change them?

As previously stated, the batteries are not replaceable. But the batteries in these sensors last a long time. The TPMS sensors on my 4th gen T4R are still working after eight years.

 

[sven]

Glad it helped you! My experience is quite different. Back in my "mini van" days I had a Toyota Sienna. We were on a long trip (two little ones in carseats and the wife) and it was 2:00 am on interstate. My TPMS light came on. I immediately got out, expecting a low tire. I saw no such condition. Got back in and set off looking for a gas station. Checked the tires with a gauge there and confirmed there was no such problem. Bought a gauge (young and dumb and did not carry one cause I had TPMS!) The light went off and stayed off for about an hour. Came back on and pulled off, checked the tires with my new gauge and no issues. Anyway, that stupid thing came off and on several times during that trip and completely un nerved me because at that point I did not know whether it was lying or not! Turned out it was a bad TPMS and only took $300.00 to fix it. My gauge cost me a buck. Since then every vehicle I have had has had the TPMS monitoring. I disregard it, check the tires weekly with a gauge and have never had the light come on since.

That's exactly what I don't like about Toyota's implementation of TPMS on the 4Runner. The TPMS light is a dummy light. It tells you something is wrong with the TPMS, but not what is wrong. Your sensor could have stopped working (ie dead battery) or the pressure in one or more tires triggered the sensor by falling to 26 lbs. or lower. The TPMS systems in some other cars give you readouts of the tire pressure and temperature in each wheel. I've used the Techstream cable to confirm that on my 4th gen T4R the TPMS sensors send readings for the tire pressure, tire temperature, and battery status. Toyota should have upgraded the TPMS on the 5th gen to show the individual tire pressure, tire temperature, and battery status on the 4Runner's infotainment screen since the sensors are already collecting this information. Instead, Toyota stuck with the dummy light.

 

[1000MPH]

I've wanted this too! How nice to be able to see the status of each tire at a glance.
BTW, my TPMS sensors were well within .5psi of my manual and digital gauges.
I would also suggest Toyota thinks it's simply TMI for the average driver.

 

[sven]

First I heard of cloning... Seems like the best solution. No more trips to the shop spring and fall.

What's the process? Do I need a tool on top of the sensors Scott?

I cloned a set of wheels by buying a Bartech TPMS-Pad and a set of Schrader EZ-sensors. Bartec handheld TPMS tools/programmers cost well over $1,000. But the Bartech TPMS-Pad costs only $244 because it hooks up to your computer via USB and runs on an upgradable software program that you install on your computer. You're also going to have to buy a $30 Techstream cable/software to retrieve your current TPMS ids. You must load the software onto a computer with a 32-bit Windows operating system or install a freeware virtual machine onto a computer with a 64-bit Windows operating system. Currently, Amazon is selling a returned/refurbished Bartech TPMS-Pad for $194.

Schrader 21260 EZ-sensor Programming Pad : Amazon.com : Automotive

TPMS-PAD - Bartec TPMS Tool

Schrader 33000 EZ-Sensor Programmable TPMS - 315 MHz : Amazon.com : Automotive

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/121604-toyota-tis-techstream.html

A less expensive way to go is to change the TPMS id numbers yourself every time you swap wheels. The easiest way to do this is with a ATEQ TPM Quickset, as phillyd2 suggested. It remembers the TPMS id numbers of the wheels that you are removing. You can also change the TPMS id numbers using the Techstream cable, but you'll have to write down and save the id number of the wheels that you are removing.

 

[dekeman]

Why not simply buy a TPMS reset tool for $150 and just reset the sensors in spring fall with the winter wheel swap? Am I missing something here?