What makes a Toyota so reliable?

[AuSeeker]

Thin piston rings (cheaper) have less surface area contacting the cylinder walls and therefore less friction. This requires less energy to move the piston, requiring less fuel.

I suspect Toyota does not cheap out on their piston rings, and use thicker rings. The thicker rings have greater surface area contacting the cylinder walls, resulting in more friction and requiring more fuel burnt to move the piston.

The thicker rings will last longer than the thinner ones, because there is more material that needs to be worn away before they reach the failure point than the thinner ones. That's why you see so many 300K mile Toyota engines not burning a ton of oil.

I got all that from your first post, but you didn't explain how the two "Million" miles engines could still have the honing marks on the cylinder walls if the piston rings have more friction they would wear the cylinders walls faster and there wouldn't be the honing marks present after a million miles, how do you explain that fact?

IMHO more friction equates to less durability, so I would think that Toyota engines have less friction rather than more.

 

[user3425]

I got all that from your first post, but you didn't explain how the two "Million" miles engines could still have the honing marks on the cylinder walls if the piston rings have more friction they would wear the cylinders walls faster and there wouldn't be the honing marks present after a million miles, how do you explain that fact?

IMHO more friction equates to less durability, so I would think that Toyota engines have less friction rather than more.

I don't have an explanation for that. I could be wrong.

 

[blanchard7684]

The answer to 'how' is lengthy.

"Q-D-R" is quality, durability, reliability--they are goals and values that every division in the company adheres to like a religion.

They have corporate "ethics" that enable or drive the QDR focus:

The Toyota Way - Wikipedia

In manufacturing they have the most robust, efficient, and capable systems in the world and it isn't close. On top of this they continuously improve them in small increments.

The systems deploy many of the same processes and machines to manufacture components that are used by other oems.

The "secret" is in how the whole system is managed.

One small example: instead of having a defect lot at a plant, they allow themselves only 5-6 spots. If these spots are close to or exactly full they initiate major shutdowns.

At Toyota you are "in trouble" for not finding problems. Most corporations thrive on people hiding problems to make their division and boss look good. This gets you shown the door at Toyota.

The thinking in management is dramatically different from all other corporations.

On the design side, Toyota only deploys technology that can be shown to be manufactured in their system.

They will stubbornly stick to older technology because it works and can be manufactured with quality and cost effectiveness.

Toyota will make improvements incrementally and new designs are thoroughly evaluated. This is why Toyotas will lag in new features compared to the competition.

This is why Toyota is extremely slow to adopt the EV approach, among many other, dozens, of examples.

The traction control system is a good example. Other manufacturers were busy packaging LSDs, lockers, Torsens, IWEs etc. Toyota wanted to use the open diff concept for longevity. But they created a hydraulic system that uses existing brake system to manage traction problems using the open diff concept.

It was way more cost effective and didn't degrade the differential QDR. (Yes they have lockers deployed fairly wide now but likely only after a long bout of testing and evaluation.)

 

[Patski00469]

Engineering perfection, high quality parts and high quality assembly

 

[spartacus]

Toyota surpasses GM as the top car maker in the USA.

"Let's Go Places ".

 

[Mr_Dobalina]

We bought a 3rd gen (2000) new from Liberty Toyota in Colorado Springs. Emailed them (and many other Toy dealers) from here in Wisconsin, made the deposit, booked the flight and rested easy. Two weeks later we flew in and the salesman met us at the airport, drove us to the dealer and we finished paying and drove it away.

It is our 2nd 4Runner. Our 1990 (also bought new) was a solid truck, not so much a family vehicle platform, and I do miss it. I suspect we'd still have it, if it hadn't been rear-ended by a large tow truck doing 40 mph while I was stopped at a light. In the 170,000 miles we drove, it never let us down or gave us cause for concern. Other than consumables like the clutch, (manual trans) brake pads, rotors, tires and fluids it showed us reliability to the degree that we bought the 2000.

The 2000 has been less reliable. It behaved itself until a little over 70,000 miles ( a bit over 2 years ago) when the rear differential self-destructed. A month later the transmission (again 5 speed manual) let go. Our local dealer has been the only hands to touch our 4Runner. I was puzzled, concerned and then infuriated. Puzzled because the drivetrain let go essentially all at once. Concerned because I thought it might be the tip of the iceberg. Infuriated when the service manager accused me & my wife of abusing the 4Runner off-road & pulling large loads. Other than fire roads or gravel parking lots it has never been off road. Other than a 4 x 8 trailer with some furniture it had never pulled a load. I literally had to be restrained to avoid beating the hell out of that service manager.

Since changing the transmission and differential the 2000 has behaved. Despite Toyota's current accelerator problem (put the car in neutral people!) I have made my own decision if I need to replace the 4Runner.

I won't be getting another. A Volkswagon Taureg or such, or a Nissan.

Don't go with a Volkswagon. My 2016 Golf now burns almost 5 quartz of oil in between oil changes. The dealer says this is normal and within specs. I am doing an oil change in-between oil changes.

 

[Bl4ck4rm4]

I’m going to go with the engineering and R&d is why Toyota’s are so reliable, with the exception of the Previa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Garanto]

What makes a Toyota Reliable?
All the maintenance you do...
Chevy's wish they can say the same.

 

[BorotHex]

I really think Toyota is headed where they all are, profit over quality. The 4Runner has great mechanical quality, but the interior quality is the worst I’ve ever owned. That stuff is always the first to go.

Ford actually fell off the mechanical quality right after interior really hit a high. Chevy I can’t figure out. I had a Trail Boss that could have been the best truck you can buy for the money, plagued with stupid stuff like a clunking slip yoke, poor programming on cold idle, and other simple and stupid stuff.

I have a friend who is a life long Toyota fan, who currently drives BMWs and Porsches, and he think Toyota can do no wrong. He has an old Landcruiser. Based on Toyotas my parents used to own, I see Toyota going down. But really they all are. It’s all about “new and shiny” now. Manufacturers figured out drawing in new buyers with new and shiny far outweighs quality and loyalty. You see it across the industry. Even Toyota dealer materials are constantly pushing dealers to accept fewer and fewer claims on Toyota’s dollar. That’s because your loyalty does not matter anymore, so don’t be surprised when you get the shaft.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I got all that from your first post, but you didn't explain how the two "Million" miles engines could still have the honing marks on the cylinder walls if the piston rings have more friction they would wear the cylinders walls faster and there wouldn't be the honing marks present after a million miles, how do you explain that fact?

IMHO more friction equates to less durability, so I would think that Toyota engines have less friction rather than more.

I know all our aluminum block engines have nitride coated cylinder sleeves (I've been surprised a couple times tearing down 200k+ Camry engines for the oil consumption CSP that still have crisp, clean crosshatching), though I honestly have no idea if they ever applied that technique to the UZ family of engines. IF they did, I'd guess that with regular service like the million mile engine saw you could probably still see factory cross hatching.

I really think Toyota is headed where they all are, profit over quality. The 4Runner has great mechanical quality, but the interior quality is the worst I’ve ever owned. That stuff is always the first to go.

Ford actually fell off the mechanical quality right after interior really hit a high. Chevy I can’t figure out. I had a Trail Boss that could have been the best truck you can buy for the money, plagued with stupid stuff like a clunking slip yoke, poor programming on cold idle, and other simple and stupid stuff.

I have a friend who is a life long Toyota fan, who currently drives BMWs and Porsches, and he think Toyota can do no wrong. He has an old Landcruiser. Based on Toyotas my parents used to own, I see Toyota going down. But really they all are. It’s all about “new and shiny” now. Manufacturers figured out drawing in new buyers with new and shiny far outweighs quality and loyalty. You see it across the industry. Even Toyota dealer materials are constantly pushing dealers to accept fewer and fewer claims on Toyota’s dollar. That’s because your loyalty does not matter anymore, so don’t be surprised when you get the shaft.

My older fellow mechanics told me they felt that Toyota was getting too big back when I started in the industry many years ago. Having been doing this for a while now, I have to agree. They're pumping out a ridiculous amount of models now trying to squeeze them in just about every category and in between categories that really don't need to be there. They're starting to play a little fast and loose with new technology where they used to be a bit more cautious and would iterate things over long spans of time. One of the biggest, most critical, and detrimental changes has been how the Toyota empire functions from a communication stand point... It doesn't. Over the last decade or so I have noticed that the inter-departmental squabbling, secrecy, and outright lack of communication has just become worse and worse. It's gotten to a point now that the left hand has no clue what the right hand is doing, nobody tells anyone anything until something happens basically. It causes so much frustration at the tech level but also causes a ton of issues all along the way too and it just seems to be getting worse and worse. It feels like Toyota doesn't seem to want it's own technicians to know how to fix their vehicles some days.

I also would lay a lot of the blame squarely on environmental and fuel economy standards, for better or for worse; because Toyota has to meet these standards and design for them it drives a lot of complexity and underpins a lot of the weird decisions they make. For example pumping out so many different models with similar gas mileage flattens their overall MPG rating so they can justify vehicles like the 4Runner, Tundra, Sequoia, Tacoma, and Land Cruiser. They don't want to adopt EV tech until they absolutely have to because Mr. Toyoda was burned by Elon Musk when Tesla and Toyota partnered up years ago and it left a bad taste in his mouth. I honestly wonder at what point is Toyota going to be less reliable and poorer quality than Chrysler...

 

[baby#yota]

In college we studied Toyota in my production lecture. One for things that makes them unique is the integration of worker input through the whole process. Let me explain, In a traditional production environment, processes are modified on a as needed basis to fit within stringent budgetary parameters. Thus creating an environment where efficient doesn’t always go hand in hand with quality. One thing Toyota does is that they encourage anyone from a line worker to and engineer to fill out a special form if they have input on how to do something better. Be that the position of a machine, a process, part placement, etc. granted that not all these suggestions get implemented but it creates an environment where you are encouraged rather than punished for your input. This allows them to spend less resources on production chain logistics and more time in R&D.

I’m sure there’s more factors I’m not listing here. Another one could be many parts get reused across platforms so they don’t have to reinvent the wheel each time a new car comes out. Instead they use already engineered and time tested hardware. But look at the new tundra with its waste gate issues, their not perfect, no company is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[baby#yota]

Following up on that is Toyotas price point. They know that people are willing to pay for a quality truck and don’t we f@$?#n know the used market is wild right now. Why?? Because the trucks are engineered more throughly and have more time put into failure analysis thus justifying a higher price. My point being there’s a reason you see a lot of minicoopers at a junk yard and only 1 or 2 4Runners. The sad fact is that most of the 4th gens that didn’t rust out are still on the road.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wellthought]

Keeping a Toyota 4Runner maintained exactly as designed will allow for hundreds of thousands of miles. Additionally, responsible driving habits should allow for long-life. I've seen some people drive their Toyotas, as well as non-Toyotas, and totally rag them out.

 

[Flyer]

Like Honda, they keeps things simple. Parts are decent quality and more importantly, they do not constantly switch suppliers to save a few pennies per part. American manufacturers do that, and maybe outsource way more to the cheapest supplier.

On the downside, their vehicles are much more basic at times. That also turns people off them.

 

[Bluesky 07]

If you’re reading this thread, the This American Life episode on New United Motors Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI) may be of interest. Here’s the description: “In 1984, General Motors and Toyota opened NUMMI as a joint venture. Toyota showed GM the secrets of its production system: How it made cars of much higher quality and much lower cost than GM achieved. Frank Langfitt explains why GM didn't learn the lessons—until it was too late.”

I found the story itself fascinating plus I had always wondered about the huge NUMMI plant along the 880 in Fremont. I passed it every day between ’89 and ‘91 on my way to work at San Jose International Airport (I lived in Newark, CA) and knew it was some kind of car plant but not much else. Remember, no Google back then.

 

[5thToy]

If you’re reading this thread, the This American Life episode on New United Motors Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI) may be of interest. Here’s the description: “In 1984, General Motors and Toyota opened NUMMI as a joint venture. Toyota showed GM the secrets of its production system: How it made cars of much higher quality and much lower cost than GM achieved. Frank Langfitt explains why GM didn't learn the lessons—until it was too late.”

I found the story itself fascinating plus I had always wondered about the huge NUMMI plant along the 880 in Fremont. I passed it every day between ’89 and ‘91 on my way to work at San Jose International Airport (I lived in Newark, CA) and knew it was some kind of car plant but not much else. Remember, no Google back then.

It is a Tesla assembly plant now.

 

[Fixxer1956]

Because there’s millions on the road!!!!!

 

[BlueRunner428]

Having owned an LC76, an FJ Cruiser, and a 5th Gen in less than a decade's time I can tell you that the plastic US market Toyotas are not like their 3rd world tested brethren.

The LC76 was a solid tank of thick body panels, scratch resistant plastics, indestructible interiors, a beast of a diesel engine, and an SFA mofo with three locking differentials.

You could kick the door and not dent it (you might break your foot in the process).

It had a radio and AC, that's about it. The snorkel came from the factory.

If you drove an LC76 and a FJ Cruiser back to back, you wouldn't believe both were Toyotas. If you drove one and the 5th gen, you'd still be hard pressed to believe both vehicles are made by the same company.

It's like a magnesium frame professional DSLR and a chintzy plastic superzoom camera. Yes, both take photographs and may be made by the same company, but that's where the similarities end.

To be fair though, I'll bet if you got into a high-speed crash in the LC76, it wouldn't protect you nearly as well as say a modern 4Runner or Land Cruiser. It would probably be a death trap. Plenty of old cars you could kick them and they were solid, but get into a high-speed crash and they were coffins. The thing is, modern vehicles, aside from some very specialized ones, have to be capable of driving on highways safely and pass crash tests. Even ones designed purposely as more slow-going off-road vehicles, such as the Jeep Wrangler, have to be able to do this. Whereas when the LC76 was designed, it did not. Also at the time, people who bought such a vehicle rarely would drive it on the highway. For how it was used, it was likely very safe. But modern vehicles have soft panels to crumple and absorb impact forces while having a strong frame.

The other thing is because safety and environmental regulations, modern vehicles are FAR more complex than the older ones. This additional complexity means lots more that can go wrong.

 

[BlueRunner428]

In terms of Toyota quality, Taichi Ohno built the first iteration of the Toyota Production System based off of the American program called Training Within Industry (TWI) which was created during WWII to train up mass manufacturing workforce. It was highly effective, but then basically thrown by the wayside by American industry after the war. Then there were the American quality control gurus W. Edwards Deming and Joseph Juran who again were told to shove off by American industry, but who found a very receptive audience by the Japanese who were eager to rebuild.

The Japanese culture also had influence here. For one is the Japanese obsessiveness with craftsmanship and quality, so emphasizing quality in manufacturing fit right in. To give an idea, the Japanese royal family rides in Toyotas. The craftsman who make the cars (they are a handcrafted luxury model) actually have tools specifically made to fit the shape of their hands. The quality of the paint applied is so extreme that only like three or four people in the world are even qualified to apply it. Two is Japan's very limited resources, and not just for an industrial economy but even in medieval times, their resources for things like metalworking were much more limited than say Europe's. So the Japanese have a cultural attitude of do things with as little waste as possible and very efficiently.

Then you combine all this with rebuilding after WWII and American quality methods that were very good but that American industry wasn't interested in, and you get the Toyota legendary quality and overall Japanese high-quality.

 

[BlueRunner428]

I really think Toyota is headed where they all are, profit over quality. The 4Runner has great mechanical quality, but the interior quality is the worst I’ve ever owned. That stuff is always the first to go.

Coming from a 1998 GMC Jimmy, my new 4Runner seems like it has fantastic interior build quality. Very solid buttons and dials and switches, whereas the Jimmy, I mean you want to talk about CHEAP plastic and cheap plastic buttons and switches....! Granted, mine is brand-new, but I do not get the impression the interior is low-grade. Time of course will tell.