2007 4runner Atrac VS 2010 Land Rover Terrain Response test and quick comparo video

[CAN-03runner]

It was not a particularly steep hill at all. It absolutely did not require 4low or at least should not have required 4low.. You can see in the video that the 4Runner did make it up in 4hi center locked rear open using only Atrac.. It just struggled, way too much for my comfort!


one more thing I noticed! Atrac seems to have a much better handle on things when you are climbing on rock or concrete rather than dirt.. dirt and ruts seem to confuse atrac much more

Could be the case. I haven't been to successful on sandy uphills. But have done full days with only center locked 4Low. I think that is the point here. You need to learn to drive the 4runner now. And I feel where you are coming from. After I built my 1st Gen crawler, I wouldn't even pay attention where I was going it just went and crawled. I'd be so distracted I would be texting people, eating a sandwich, looking for CDs, whatever, 1st gear, 4.7 low, foot off the gas, off the brake it just went. Then I started to get back into the 4th gen, and wondered why anyone would want to take this thing offroad, or even an FJC or even an LR4 really. They are big, heavy, clearance is an issue, you might care about the paint. It just didn't crawl. It's not the same vehicle at all. I couldn't drive it the same way. And while Atrac does activate in 4hi, it is not as effective as in 4Low, this is by design. Also keeping it in 1st gear is beneficial too. So while I'm not familiar with how the LR4 T-Case and traction control functions, it might be optimized to function just as well in 4Hi as in 4low, ( plus I think without the HD package it only has 4Hi?? ) but with the 4th gen it is designed to function optimally in 4Low. You may not have an account at toyota120 so I attached a document from there mentioned earlier on.

4Low, center locked, 1st gear, gives you the best it can. The system does make use of the speed sensors and yaw sensors etc... this is why I mentioned earlier that a nice recalibration could be in order, more than a verification of you braking system. It probably doesn't matter or make a difference to someone who is of "put gas in it and drive around town type" but to the enthousists like we are, be it for 4runners, landrovers, general 4x4, cars, dirt bikes we're gonna like tinkering and try to understand and exploit every feature and fucntion to its fullest.

You have your reasons for getting a 4runner over a LR3 or another LR4 for offroading or a Disco. It's give and take. You make tradeoffs and you often need pay to play whether is repairs or addons. Why have I un-retired the 4th gen, tradeoffs, it works well enough, I have back seats for the kids, air conditioning, I can actually drive to and from the trails no trialer required, I can share spare parts with other 4runner and FJ Cruiser guys.

Maybe A-trac is not sufficient for your type of terrain, although I've seen it work wonders on mine. You saw some shortcomings and fixed it with an ARB in the rear. I'm not even sure I see that as an issue. I see it as an automatic. Lift, tires, armour, lockers, winch. pay to play. Why am I not in a LR4. It's such a beautiful vehicle that I'd be pained to take it through the woods in the northeast, plus I can't even imagine how much replacement parts or keeping an arselnal of spare parts could cost.

 

[CAN-03runner]

@fromLRtoT4R

I'm not familiar with the underpinnings of the LR4. I'd be interested in a technical discussion of it's partcular nuances. Such as the T-case. Is there a 4Hi and 4Low. When it auto locks the center does it split 50/50 or can it still continue to electronically send power front to rear as required. Wen not autolocked is it RWD, AWD etc... That could make a difference. With my 3series xDrive I find that it definitly works better than the Torsen in the 4th gen both when open and when locked getting out of my steep driveway when iced and snowed over.

I have been looking for a video done by some car review magazine I can't remember. They had a subaru WRX Sti, an old range rover and something else...I think it was a comparison of AWD, 4WD and FrontWD.

Basically the premise was.....( subaru probably gave them a bunch of cash or long term test cars for the auto journalists...... ) premise went like this, FWD only takes you so far because as you climb the hill the weight shifts to the rear and no traction wheels there so it fails. Then they bring in a range rover. Big monster of a truck. Shift it into 4x4. the real deal. Same thing, it only went up so far. The claim was that because in 4x4 with a 50/50 split, as the weight shifts to the rear, and the truck being so heavy it didn't have enough torque to keep it moving up, plus if you had the wheels on one axle stuck the other axle couldn't turn since the front and rear axles were connected at that point.

Then in comes the ahum....totally un biased, perfectly shinny blue WRX and it made it to the top and down, then danced around a little, did a few flips...ok I exagerate, but basically the claim there was that becuase the WRX Sti Awd was able to continue to shift power front and rear even though it was going up hill and the weight shifted to the rear, instead of continuing to send 50% or the available torque to the front it shifted it to the rear where the weight and traction was. A likely story. I could buy it. The fact that it came screaming into the camera shot in hyper speed didn't hurt either.

So what I'm looking to understand is if the newer range rover and land rover since they can auto lock the center, can it also redirect more than just 50/50 to where it is needed and can this be the killer app feature. I feel it is with my xDrive system when compared to my 4th gen. The Torsen center when not locked needs lots of throtle imput, and it makes sense, it is by design.

 

[capri_auto]

Here you go, I've done the work for you.. Reposting this from the other thread.

2004 4Runner. 4LO, center diff locked, ATRAC visibly doing its thing.



2003 Disco 2. 4LO, no center diff lock (open), traction control. Note crazy wheelspin due to the open center diff.

Nice, thanks for that comparrison! 03 D2 don't have a center locker, but the 04s do.

 

[AKmoney]

I'm not familiar with the underpinnings of the LR4. I'd be interested in a technical discussion of it's partcular nuances.

I'm not the final say on this but after doing some preliminary research on the LR3 and LR4 the drivetrain is pretty similar to a 4th gen. Full time 4WD with a center differential that locks and a 2-speed xfer case, although the center lock function is under automatic software control. There's no manual CDL button. The traction control system is called "Terrain Response" and has several settings. It's extremely effective as OP's videos have shown.

For 2014 they replaced the 5.0 V8 engine with a 3.0 Supercharged V6. They also removed the 2-speed xfer case as standard equipment (bowing to soccer mom economics).

It has independent suspension at all 4 corners. No solid rear axle.

You want the Heavy Duty option package that adds a rear diff lock and a full size matching spare tire, and, for 2016, adds back in the 2-speed xfer case. Without the Heavy Duty package you get a donut spare tire, which is probably fine for 99% of owners who will use it to drive the kids to soccer practice and make Costco runs. The Heavy Duty package seems to be a rare option when searching for used examples.

It has a hybrid ladder frame / unibody construction technique that makes it extremely heavy. They weigh a good 1,000lbs more than a V8/4wd 4th gen 4runner. They're about the same length but a good 7" or so wider, with somewhat more cargo volume (90 cuft. vs. 75 cuft.).

It should probably not come as a surprise that given their weight and their complete lack of aerodynamics, the fuel economy sucks. To add insult to injury, they also require premium gas.

As my 4Runner ages and I start to think longer term about what kind of capable adventure vehicle I'd like to replace it with, I have the LR4 on my radar screen. But like others have mentioned, reliability is a concern.

 

[AKmoney]

Hmm, so I wandered over to the Land Rover forms last night and it seems as of a majority of the post content in the LR3 forums concern some type of vehicle malfunction. That doesn't bode well for the LR4 as they continue to age. Something tells me I'm going to be better off sticking with a Toyota.

Hmm, how much are GX 460s going for these days?

 

[Ryanmb21]

Atrac in low range works better than high range off road.

 

[JB.]

There is a slight possibility that it could just be mine,

Take a look at the vid in the thread below. I'd like to know what you think of it based on your experiences.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-roading/83301-short-vid-argentine-pass-atrac.html

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

sorry been away from my computer for a while.. he is basically doing the same thing I was doing, at about the same incline, perhaps his ruts were slightly less deep.. remember thought, mine did make it eventually it just struggled more.. I imagine he was in 4lo as well which I will do one day so people can see the difference.. I really just haven't had time..

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

Also I just want to mention to everyone because this may be important.. I am not impressed by the braking performance on this car.. its a little inconsistent especially with the larger tires. More importantly I managed to lock up one or two of the tires under hard braking several times already.. has anyone else experienced this with larger tires??? I rechecked the pads and rotors and and they all check out OK.. No ABS light, it seems to be working (or at least trying to work)..

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

Check out this video fellas.. His results were basically the same as mine! I am also in the opinion that the LR4 terrain response system would have ate this hill for an apetizer.. If he had that rear locker, those ruts would pose no challenge

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

his issue is just him not giving any time for the abs to sense slipage. as soon as he spins once he lets off. or he hit the gas harder a couple times then let off. both situations arent how you get ATRAC to operate. if he would of waited a couple seconds with it at 1750-2250rpm it would of walked up it no problem. But im guilty of just using my locker for everything now

 

[ddnww]

I love atrac

I am very pleased and impressed with ATRAC, I have gone threw some pretty tough stuff and some very steep rutted sandy hills with no problem.

heres some examples

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sCLZs9Dsjmo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

THIS ONE IS PRETTY DARN STEEP WITH BIG DEEP RUTS

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7g_n5tmSIDY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ONLY NEED TO WATCH THE FIRST TWO MINUTES OF THIS VIDEO, FIRST WATCH THE CHEVY FAIL TWICE, THEN WATCH HOW ITS DONE BY MY 4RUNNER

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7FxT1CvYKlA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

YOU CAN SKIP TO :30 , THIS ONE IS NOT TOO RUTTED, BUT VERY VERY STEEP, AT THE BOTTOM IM ALREADY ON QUITE A BIT OF AN INCLINE

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CVHK_8dFgTo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

his issue is just him not giving any time for the abs to sense slipage. as soon as he spins once he lets off. or he hit the gas harder a couple times then let off. both situations arent how you get ATRAC to operate. if he would of waited a couple seconds with it at 1750-2250rpm it would of walked up it no problem. But im guilty of just using my locker for everything now

Here is the thing, I know what you are talking about and I have tried getting on the gas and waiting, and waiting, and waiting... so what ended happening was it was just skipping and skipping and hopping until it got very violent where it seemed like something was going to brake.. if you give it too much gas, the wheels with no traction just start to spin out of control.. I also suspect that there is a possibility that the brakes may get hot and loose their ability to keep things under control after a while..

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

here it is again .... go to 3:07

I really haven't seen any videos where atrac works by it self under extreme cross axeld slippery situations..

 

[AKmoney]

If you guys want to see an example of ATRAC really struggling, this particular video is pretty good:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RVLLDuZE0LU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A rear locker would have helped immensely. It's clear this is a very technical trail, however - I'd probably want a rear locker at my disposal regardless of the vehicle choice.

Also, it might be just me, but it seems as if ATRAC doesn't work as well with really large tires and a lot of suspension travel - it results in a lot of bouncing/jumping movement.

 

[LS2Cobra]

I know we're in the 4th Gen section but I would be really curious to see how the 5th Gen system/s found on the Trail and TRD Pros stack up on the same hill, same conditions, etc.

 

[RonJR]

If you guys want to see an example of ATRAC really struggling, this particular video is pretty good:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RVLLDuZE0LU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A rear locker would have helped immensely. It's clear this is a very technical trail, however - I'd probably want a rear locker at my disposal regardless of the vehicle choice.

Also, it might be just me, but it seems as if ATRAC doesn't work as well with really large tires and a lot of suspension travel - it results in a lot of bouncing/jumping movement.

I think that video is actually a pretty good tribute to what ATRAC can do. While it's true that ATRAC is struggling here more than a locker would, it's so far beyond what you could do with purely open differentials as to be absolutely amazing. The T4R did make it up the hill through all the obstacles, after all, in some places with wheels lifted a good 18" off the ground.

Without ATRAC that vehicle wouldn't have gotten 50 feet up that hill.

 

[AKmoney]

I think that video is actually a pretty good tribute to what ATRAC can do. While it's true that ATRAC is struggling here more than a locker would, it's so far beyond what you could do with purely open differentials as to be absolutely amazing. The T4R did make it up the hill through all the obstacles, after all, in some places with wheels lifted a good 18" off the ground.

Without ATRAC that vehicle wouldn't have gotten 50 feet up that hill.

I agree. At the end of the day, ATRAC struggled but the truck made it to the top of the hill.

There was one section where the truck was bouncing up and down on ATRAC just inches away from a giant boulder on one side and the edge of the cliff on the other. Definite pucker factor, at least for me. If the truck bounced into the rock, would the body repair costs exceed the cost of the locker?

 

[fromLRtoT4R]

If you guys want to see an example of ATRAC really struggling, this particular video is pretty good:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RVLLDuZE0LU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A rear locker would have helped immensely. It's clear this is a very technical trail, however - I'd probably want a rear locker at my disposal regardless of the vehicle choice.

Also, it might be just me, but it seems as if ATRAC doesn't work as well with really large tires and a lot of suspension travel - it results in a lot of bouncing/jumping movement.

Excellent video! Excellent driving as well!! At 5:37 you can see the limitation of Atrac. Also at 6:20 you see that he had to realign to get up that rock.. With that being said, there are a few areas especially towards the beginning where I think my 4Runner would have came up short. So I am starting to really consider that there may me some kind of a brake issue slightly compromising my Atrac, but only slightly! Definitely not a huge difference...........

I stand by my evaluation though, that on the 4th gens a rear locker is important if you don't want to end up in a rock or a tree one day.. Atrac is capable, but IMO by no means amazing.. on the other hand the Land Rover 4th gen does not need a rear locker... Their Terrain Response is f### amazing.. having a rear locker may help a tad and definitely would not hurt, but it simply isn't necessary..

With all that being said, I still choose the 4Runner for severe punishment and hundreds of thousands of reliable miles! And keep the LR4 (which what wifey drives) for baby transport and to occasionally scare the wife or impress friends.. Quite simple, for a mix of driving like a 15 hour hwy trip without getting tired, going through a ditch to get to another store parking lot to avoid using a road, parking where no one else can at a picnic event out in nature, laughing at mud or snow, nothing and I mean absolutely nothing beats a Land Rover in their stock form.. (Just make sure it comes with a warranty)

 

[RonJR]

I'm looking forward to trying out ATRAC this summer. My '94 with purely open diffs was frustrating - moderate hills with diagonal washouts would stop it cold. Once I installed the Aussie locker that problem went away.

I'm not really a technical off-roader; I use my vehicle to get to places I want to explore (backcountry passes, fishing lakes, old railroad grades, etc.) If there's a bypass around a tough obstacle, I'll usually take the bypass.

My guess is ATRAC will meet my rather moderate needs just fine. If it does, then Toyota will have been successful in my book, by providing an essentially zero cost solution that essentially eliminates my (not necessarily your) need for a locker.