4R sales down
- Thread starter dekeman
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thebwlife
Senior Member
got it, we have a 335i with full German M-tech body kit. I'd say most forums have their winners and their losers. I find the BMW forum people very knowledgeable with BMW's but most people are more concerned about how they look on there. This forum is generally good, there are a few in the 3rd, 4th gen areas that are just HS kids with mom's hand me down looking for trouble, but the 30K entry barrier of this 2010+ SUV is holding most of them out for now.
kingpin748
New member
Yeah, we're going to put a lot of weight on a guy whose decision making skills ended with buying a 2 wheel drive 4Runner.
Please.
You have no facts, you're spouting personal opinion and posting unrelated stats that you assuming reflect your opinion. So here is my opinion.
Hyundai and Kia are doing well due to pricing and an increase in quality. But lets be honest, it's pricing.
Your new Jetta is ranked last by a variety of organizations because it's a pile of junk. But hey, everyone likes a Jetta including me.
I drove everything Nissan had to offer last year and while they aren't bad I went with a Toyota. 3% could be the margin of error in one of those studies so I doubt I'd hang my hat on it.
I love it when guys try to bash their chosen product rather than admit they didn't do their homework and bought a vehicle that doesn't meet their needs. If you don't understand why people mod their vehicles then you really don't belong here do you? Why don't you just go play a round of golf or something.
KCcarguy
New member
Consumer Reports ratings of quality (which to most people means reliabilty) are as follows:
1) Scion
2) Porsche
3) Acura
4) Honda
5) Infiniti
6) Toyota
7) Subaru
8) Volvo
9) Lexus
10) Ford
11) Hyundai
12) Mazda
13) Kia
14) Nissan
......Just the facts, man.
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03_4x4Runner
Senior Member
Do not mention consumers Reports. Didn't you here they are not credible? http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/92579-consumer-reports-no-longer-credible.html
Catchlight
New member
As well as the low production rate of Japan-built vehicles
since the tsunami, high gas prices--and the fear of even higher ones--are probably making some potential 4Runner buyers either wait, or buy some unibody wannabee SUV.
since the tsunami, high gas prices--and the fear of even higher ones--are probably making some potential 4Runner buyers either wait, or buy some unibody wannabee SUV.
Should it really be a surprise that 4Runner sales are down? The new Jeep Grand Cherokee alone will continue to decimate 4Runner sales now and in the future. Why? Simple--it's a much more attractive vehicle, it has good off-road cred (for those who find value in that), and it's a more comfortable vehicle on the road as well. Jeep decided to bring the Grand Cherokee more upscale, while still offering competitive pricing. Toyota decided to bring the new 4Runner downscale, probably in an attempt to keep pricing competitive.
When the 4th gen 4Runner was being sold, I chose it over the Grand Cherokee. Now that new generations of both vehicles are out, I'd choose the Jeep for sure.
When the 4th gen 4Runner was being sold, I chose it over the Grand Cherokee. Now that new generations of both vehicles are out, I'd choose the Jeep for sure.
robotkiller
New member
Makes sense. 4th gen looked like a station wagon too.
Yup, all SUVs look like station wagons. Actually, that's exactly how SUVs were created....they were "tall" station wagons with 4wd added.
Just a couple of comments:
Consumer spending was all but nil in June this year, for all manufacturing goods. Doesn't surprise me that the 4R's are not selling as good.
Second, Consumer Reports is never a great source for anything. They used to be the gold standard, but they broadened their spectrum of manufacturing goods to the point where they are full of opinions rather than facts and data (and the facts and data they use, well, a high school student doing a market study could probably do better)
Everyone has their preferences, but from my experience, I prefer JD Powers since their focus is strictly on things that make noise.
YMMV.
JD Powers dependability ratings by brand:
Ratings | J.D. Power
Consumer spending was all but nil in June this year, for all manufacturing goods. Doesn't surprise me that the 4R's are not selling as good.
Second, Consumer Reports is never a great source for anything. They used to be the gold standard, but they broadened their spectrum of manufacturing goods to the point where they are full of opinions rather than facts and data (and the facts and data they use, well, a high school student doing a market study could probably do better)
Everyone has their preferences, but from my experience, I prefer JD Powers since their focus is strictly on things that make noise.
YMMV.
JD Powers dependability ratings by brand:
Ratings | J.D. Power
Wikipedia? LOL...poor choice of a source since anyone can write/edit anything on Wikipedia.
Besides, you can deny it all you want, but SUVs like our 4Runners have lots in common with the older station wagons. Sure, they have a higher ride height and usually have 4wd, but other than that they are very similar to the old body-on-frame station wagons from the 70's.
sandcrawler
Senior Member
you really are priceless. deriding a source whilst simultaneously crowing your own (therein refuted) opinions as fact? i would expect nothing less from you, Jed. tell you what, why don't you take this opportunity to edit the Wiki yourself so that it reads that "SUVs were created by making station wagons "taller" and "adding 4WD." LOL, indeed.
all i am "denying" is that SUVs were not created from station wagons. your original post stated that "that's exactly how SUVs were created....they were "tall" station wagons with 4wd added." um, no, they weren't created that way at all. saying "lots in common with the older station wagons" is an entirely different thing. one is about origins; the other is about similarities.
putting that aside, and to simplify things, in the case of the 4runner it was definitely not born out of Toyota's station wagon line (Cressida, Tercel, Camry, etc.)... "Based on the mechanicals of its rugged (and strong-selling) 4-wheel drive pickup truck, the 4Runner combined the versatility and go-anywhere ability of 4WD with the comfort and utility found in passenger cars."
tell you what though, since you don't trust the source, how about you provide a credible one that states that "SUVs were created from station wagons." go on, i'll wait...
You're barely worth taking the time to respond, but since I'm in the mood, here goes:
1- Why are you calling me Jed? My real name isn't Jed and my screen name obviously isn't Jed.
2- Where did I "crown" my opinions as fact? Once again another failure. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that you can't differentiate someone making a statement from someone irrefutably stating that his opinion is fact. Obviously such a topic cannot be definitively proven one way or another, so all we have is our opinions and whatever ancillary evidence we can use to support those opinions.
3- Where did I even suggest that the 4Runner was derived from Toyota's station wagons? LOLOLOLOL. I never even suggested that. You read into things far too much.
Okay, that's enough for now. This is just too easy.
Dlak
New member
Taking criticism from a person that actually owns a 5th gen is one thing, but taking it from a troll is something completely different. I'm not calling you a troll......yet. But I do notice the same people popping into the 5th gen forum evertime they get a chance to talk sh$# about the 5th gen depending on the thread heading.
" and judging by the countless mods you folks here do or wanna do, now why would that be if toyota just made it right in the first place" HAHA are you serious buddy? You're really funny! Very entertaining!! I'm not even going to bother with this doozy...
sandcrawler
Senior Member
backpedal much? you truly are a piece of work. thanks for taking the time from your busy day.
LOL..only you would think that was backpedaling. Maybe your reading comprehension needs some work, but I just basically dismissed everything you said. Oh well, I expected a better response from you...
Another point of view on the origin of the SUV:
The Early Days
Many believe that the birth of the SUV began as the "depot hack." The depot hack was a vehicle that transported people (similar to today's taxi/hack) and luggage from the train stations (depots). They were widely known as a carryalls or suburbans. Depot hacks were also believed to be responsible for the evolution of the modern station wagon and the longest running SUV model, the Suburban. Another notable "father" to the SUV is the Jeep Wagon. While the Wagoneer was introduced as a model in 1963, it was the late 1940s that brought us Willy's Jeep Wagon. In fact an advertisement for the Willy's Wagon once called it a "utility vehicle" for the family.
The Early Days
Many believe that the birth of the SUV began as the "depot hack." The depot hack was a vehicle that transported people (similar to today's taxi/hack) and luggage from the train stations (depots). They were widely known as a carryalls or suburbans. Depot hacks were also believed to be responsible for the evolution of the modern station wagon and the longest running SUV model, the Suburban. Another notable "father" to the SUV is the Jeep Wagon. While the Wagoneer was introduced as a model in 1963, it was the late 1940s that brought us Willy's Jeep Wagon. In fact an advertisement for the Willy's Wagon once called it a "utility vehicle" for the family.
Dlak
New member
1. You're on a 1500 post/Year pace and you barely think it is worth responding to. I think your head would explode if you kept your mouth shut.
2. He is calling you Jed because you sound/write exactly like an arrogant troll named Jed that was kicked off of the forum a while back.
Thanks for chiming in there, big guy. But don't worry too much about how much I choose to post because you really have no say in the matter. But thanks for caring.
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