4R sales down

[DocMT]

Haha, "hey hunny it's ok if the car is a piece of crap it's gonna be under warranty thoughout our lease period" Yeah I'd like to see how that pans out the third time you break down in the middle of the freeway. Great point genius, along with the rest of the "points" you've been making today winner.

Yeah, because everyone who owns a Grand Cherokee is breaking down on the freeway. Go buy yourself some common sense and get back to me after you learn how to use it.

You can probably count the amount of new Grand Cherokee owners who actually broke down on the freeway on one hand, genius.

 

[DocMT]

Now I am afraid to drive anywhere today. My 4th gen frame will break and the road will be clogged with broken down Jeeps. It is so depressing.

LOL--best post in the thread so far!

 

[Thai]

Its just nice to have the capability.

and durability!! (and frankly, a unibody that does off-road work can't match a well designed BOF in terms of durability)

I am sure that the JGC can climb hills, but how confident are you at taking it deep into the jungle with the air suspension, 20" rims, and limited QDII system??? And how long can the JGC take the punishment of off-roading without developing creaks and rattles??

It is always funny to add that the Range Rover (the grand daddy, not the LR3) tried to achieve same strength and durability of a BOF (e.g. Land Cruiser, G-wagen) via unibody design. They ended up with so much reinforcements that the darn thing weighted as much (or more in Land Cruiser case) as the BOF designs that they benchmarked! Again, this is why Jeep Wrangler is still a BOF design.

 

[DocMT]

The fact of the matter is that Toyota reinforced the frontal aspect of the frame...the rest of the 5th gen's frame is nearly identical to the 4th gen. Isn't that strange?

I don't find it strange at all. Here's why: Toyota KNEW that there were frame issues with the FJ. When the decision was made to base the 5th gen 4Runner off of the FJ frame, they knew that it would have to be reinforced. That should be completely logical.

The 4th gen never had documented frame issues like the FJ. So if Toyota based the 5th gen off the 4th gen frame, I'm quite sure it would not have needed to be reinforced. Why would it? It's not like there were a bunch of 4th gen 4Runner owners complaining of damaged frames.

 

[Thai]

The 4th gen never had documented frame issues like the FJ. So if Toyota based the 5th gen off the 4th gen frame, I'm quite sure it would not have needed to be reinforced. Why would it? It's not like there were a bunch of 4th gen 4Runner owners complaining of damaged frames.

Darn that selective reading of yours!! (BTW, it is pure marketing that Toyota stated that the 5th gen is based on the FJ frame...you do realize that, right?!!)

Denial...you calling others in denial is pretty funny....

 

[DocMT]

The original Cherokee was quite well known for both its durability and offroad ability. And you know what? It was a unibody.

The whole "it's gotta have a frame and solid rear axle or it can't go offroad" is just silly. And wrong.

Very true. And to add to this, it's also fairly well known that Jeep's unibody isn't the same type of unibody that you typically see in most unibody SUVs. They actually call it a "uniframe" construction and it's designed to be stronger than a typical unibody design. Sure, it's still not a true body-on-frame design, but that doesn't mean it can't handle the stuff owners will use it for.

 

[DocMT]

Jeep clearly went after the mall crawlers, which i don't blame them. That is where the market is...just look at how successful Ford is with their trillions of crossovers.

I don't blame them either. For every guy who runs off road, there are probably 100 who will never leave the pavement.

If you don't think Toyota is headed down the same path, you must be crazy. I will personally guarantee that the 5th gen 4Runner will be the last body-on-frame & solid rear axle 4Runner we'll ever see. And with the poor sales numbers, it's questionable how long Toyota will even keep the 5th gen around.

 

[T4Fun]

thai, you find it necessary to critique everything, good or bad, and yes, 1 year of ownership is enough to comment on these #$#$# trucks...the gx is better, but aint all that, but then again, what car/suv is...oh, i forgot its the LX which you dont have!

 

[DocMT]

DocMT, every thread concerning the 5th generation you talk about how much better the 4th was and how much the 5ths suck. You're always saying how great the JGC and how it's leaving the 4runner in the dust. If you like the JGC just buy one and move on......It's your money.

:redbrick:

I'm quite happy with my 4th gen. It's still like a brand new 4Runner, inside and out. When the time comes, I'll most likely be moving over to the Jeep camp simply because I can't stand the 5th gen styling. But hey, don't let that bother you...if you like it, that's all that should matter.

 

[Thai]

Very true. And to add to this, it's also fairly well known that Jeep's unibody isn't the same type of unibody that you typically see in most unibody SUVs. They actually call it a "uniframe" construction and it's designed to be stronger than a typical unibody design. Sure, it's still not a true body-on-frame design, but that doesn't mean it can't handle the stuff owners will use it for.

You are a sucker for marketing, aren't you??!! Dude, look under a CRV and you will see crossmembers also...normal unibody reinforcements...but that is a far cry from a BOF.

If you don't think Toyota is headed down the same path, you must be crazy. I will personally guarantee that the 5th gen 4Runner will be the last body-on-frame & solid rear axle 4Runner we'll ever see. And with the poor sales numbers, it's questionable how long Toyota will even keep the 5th gen around.

A few years ago, some folks say that same about the 5th gen...did not happen. Look at the Lexus LX570...still BOF and rear axle. You may be right, but i doubt it. Toyota seems to be commited to having both Highlander and 4runner together, each with its own purpose.

 

[DocMT]

And I don't know where some are getting the idea that most do not go off pavement. While I don't climb rocks I do have in on dirt a decent amount of time. Its just nice to have the capability.

If you consider "dirt" to be offroad, then I think you're helping me make my point. I can drive my Audi with it's 19" OEM wheels and 35-series tires on a dirt road. That doesn't mean I drive it off road, unless you're talking in the most literal sense of the word. Anyway, point is that you don't need a 4Runner (or any SUV) to drive on dirt.

 

[DocMT]

and durability!! (and frankly, a unibody that does off-road work can't match a well designed BOF in terms of durability)

I am sure that the JGC can climb hills, but how confident are you at taking it deep into the jungle with the air suspension, 20" rims, and limited QDII system??? And how long can the JGC take the punishment of off-roading without developing creaks and rattles??

It is always funny to add that the Range Rover (the grand daddy, not the LR3) tried to achieve same strength and durability of a BOF (e.g. Land Cruiser, G-wagen) via unibody design. They ended up with so much reinforcements that the darn thing weighted as much (or more in Land Cruiser case) as the BOF designs that they benchmarked! Again, this is why Jeep Wrangler is still a BOF design.

Come on, Thai...guys who are serious about offroading don't buy the 20" wheels. That's just silly.

 

[Thai]

Come on, Thai...guys who are serious about offroading don't buy the 20" wheels. That's just silly.

So, what does the lowest rim size the JGC has from factory??

 

[T4Fun]

You know, 3 months ago I certainly would have jumped right in. Now? My perspective has changed and it's really hard to justify arguing with pedants like Jed/DocMT or revisionists like T4Fun (at one point he/she was so hot for the 4Runner that they bought TE headlamps before they bought a 4Runner only to be stuck with them after changing their mind and buying a Lexus) who change their mind like I change my socks.

Kingpin, while totally unoriginal, is at least semi-intelligent enough to make his sarcasm occasionally funny. The others are just trolls and I'm done wasting what little time I have left on them. This place has been a GREAT forum, both informational and entertaining, but these endless arguments are neither.

lol if youre upto date here, which clearly youre not, you would of seen i sold them to phil. yup, i made the RIGHT decision with the gx for sure! dont want to be seen in a 4runner after i saw what kind low class comments some people here make (no joke). kinda of like not wanting to own a doped up civic..get the point? :ak472:

 

[Thai]

lol if youre upto date here, which clearly youre not, you would of seen i sold them to phil. yup, i made the RIGHT decision with the gx for sure! dont want to be seen in a 4runner after i saw what kind low class comments some people here make (no joke). kinda of like not wanting to own a doped up civic..get the point? :ak472:

Yet, you still here with these lowly folks...and still put down the 4runner with every comment like the worst of them. Real classy there T4Fun!!

But, it is kinda funny that you bought headlights BEFORE having the car!

 

[DocMT]

You are a sucker for marketing, aren't you??!! Dude, look under a CRV and you will see crossmembers also...normal unibody reinforcements...but that is a far cry from a BOF.

Do some research and you'll see that CR-V crossmembers are not in any way the same thing as the design elements in Jeep's uniframe. You should give Jeep some credit...they know that there will be owners who do bring those things offroad, so they do engineer them not to fall apart when they leave the pavement. Honda puts no such effort into designing the CR-V

A few years ago, some folks say that same about the 5th gen...did not happen. Look at the Lexus LX570...still BOF and rear axle. You may be right, but i doubt it. Toyota seems to be commited to having both Highlander and 4runner together, each with its own purpose.

Trust me, the days are numbered. Years ago, there were plenty of body-on-frame SUVs with solid rear axles. Today how many are there? The 5th gen WILL be the last of the 4Runners made that way, guaranteed. The real question is will the 4Runner name live on once they make it unibody and IRS?

 

[DocMT]

So, what does the lowest rim size the JGC has from factory??

You can get 17, 18, or 20" wheels from the factory.

 

[Thai]

But, WAIT, you earlier wrote that Jeep owners don't even keep the thing past 3 years!! So, why would you think Jeep engineered anything to last beyond that?! And yeah, don't open your doors in the JGC when you are cross-axled!!!

You be surprise how much engineering goes into a CRV...but that is for another forum!

Ok, keep predicting.

 

[T4Fun]

Yet, you still here with these lowly folks...and still put down the 4runner with every comment like the worst of them. Real classy there T4Fun!!

But, it is kinda funny that you bought headlights BEFORE having the car!

yes that was stupid, but i got rid of them, so moot point...
yes, time to stop wasting my time here...

 

[DocMT]

But, it is kinda funny that you bought headlights BEFORE having the car!

That is funny, but I guess you can say he was prepared! At least it's easier to dump off a set of 5th gen headlights than it is to dump the entire 5th gen. He realized what a bad purchase it would have been and made a better choice!