AC Comparison , Nissan....

[cjacob316]

My answers are in bold.

According to this I have holes in my argument as well. I'll retire my position with this. I like Toyota for their proven reliability, I am not willing to sacrifice that (or my body on frame suv) for the "perks" of other makes or vehicles, nor am I willing to pay $50k+ at this time for a vehicle in order to get all those "perks". The 4Runner suites me perfectly the way it is, otherwise I would not have purchased it. I would suggest that people who are not happy with it find a vehicle that does make them happy, that's why I got rid of the Tacoma.

 

[borfoo3]

No, you can design a R-134a system to cool just as well as a R-12 system. It's not the refrigerant.

I guess I don't really notice a lack of volume, but rather a lack of cold. I've monitored the evap. temp and noticed while at idle and slow speeds, it won't get below 45 when outside temps are 90-ish. Once you get up to speed, the evap. will eventually drop to set temp (~35 deg). I haven't tried to rev the motor while parked to see if the temp drops.

Hmm fair point. But I can say without a doubt that several previous gen cars I've tried have had cooler A/C's than newer ones.. Not necessarily through fan speed as that varies a lot, but colder air for sure. Just unfortunate that even Holy Toyotas are suffering from the same issue from what I've seen.

Other than this thought, its amazing how things escalate around here :rain:

 

[Bevo]

My answers are in bold.

Damn...

 

[Binoshnoop]

My answers are in bold.

2 things:

"Why would I trust you? You just joined and have eight posts. How about I trust the people who did the research and countless surveys to find out what customers actually want in their 4Runner? "

You're a joke, because the forum is life. If you have 2000 posts it means you founded Toyota. If you have 10 posts, you own a 1998 Camry?
Thanks for the laugh. If you knew me you would be ashamed of what you said.

"A real competitor? There are several out there from the JGC to the Jeep Unlimited to the Range Rover to the Xterra"

The Range Rover? Did you just say the Range Rover is competing with the T4R? Oh god! Best I've ever heard haha. How about a G63 while we're at it? Seriously, thank you for the laugh. Again.

My initial point was that Toyota can afford to have cheap non-tech and plastic-like interior because people will keep buying Toyota for their reliability. If you're too blind to see that, I can't help you sorry.

 

[Koddo]

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

Fat people. It takes work to keep them sweaty giblets insulated in 5 inches of blubber at a comfortable temperature.

All this bickering about engineering, cost, Toyota not using the best technology/having best interiors.

Its fat people. Wanting their ventilated seats and cooling seats for their fat sweaty nether regions.

:closed_2: :rofl:

 

[1engineer]

2 things:

"Why would I trust you? You just joined and have eight posts. How about I trust the people who did the research and countless surveys to find out what customers actually want in their 4Runner? "

You're a joke, because the forum is life. If you have 2000 posts it means you founded Toyota. If you have 10 posts, you own a 1998 Camry?
Thanks for the laugh. If you knew me you would be ashamed of what you said.

"A real competitor? There are several out there from the JGC to the Jeep Unlimited to the Range Rover to the Xterra"

The Range Rover? Did you just say the Range Rover is competing with the T4R? Oh god! Best I've ever heard haha. How about a G63 while we're at it? Seriously, thank you for the laugh. Again.

My initial point was that Toyota can afford to have cheap non-tech and plastic-like interior because people will keep buying Toyota for their reliability. If you're too blind to see that, I can't help you sorry.

Way to deflect bro. Didn't try to explain your answers (as is normal) as much as try to ridicule me. When you make a statement try to have some data or reasoning to back it up next time.

 

[cjacob316]

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

Fat people. It takes work to keep them sweaty giblets insulated in 5 inches of blubber at a comfortable temperature.

All this bickering about engineering, cost, Toyota not using the best technology/having best interiors.

Its fat people. Wanting their ventilated seats and cooling seats for their fat sweaty nether regions.

:closed_2: :rofl:

I wonder how many fat people ever have your life/livelyhood in their hands. I also wonder how many fat people you've managed to insult to their face without getting knocked out.

 

[Koddo]

The truth hurts, I know.

 

[nevada]

The truth hurts, I know.

I will never understand why a fat person gets upset when you call them fat. its not like they don't know. facts are facts people...




to stay on topic. my 85 4runner, running r12 refrigerant cools better than my 06 using r134. though, the 06 has much more volume, the 85 gets colder. this is just going by feel, I have never put a thermometer to either of them.

does the 5th gen really have that bad of a blower motor?

 

[1engineer]

I will never understand why a fat person gets upset when you call them fat. its not like they don't know. facts are facts people...




to stay on topic. my 85 4runner, running r12 refrigerant cools better than my 06 using r134. though, the 06 has much more volume, the 85 gets colder. this is just going by feel, I have never put a thermometer to either of them.

does the 5th gen really have that bad of a blower motor?

No...

 

[Antman]

the heater don't work and it's oh so cold...


That's all I got, but I know my bud Greg will "get it".

 

[cjacob316]

The truth hurts, I know.

I will never understand why a fat person gets upset when you call them fat. its not like they don't know. facts are facts people...




to stay on topic. my 85 4runner, running r12 refrigerant cools better than my 06 using r134. though, the 06 has much more volume, the 85 gets colder. this is just going by feel, I have never put a thermometer to either of them.

does the 5th gen really have that bad of a blower motor?

I think that's the point, you don't need to point it out, and you could just say overweight, you don't have to say it in the most insulting way by using terms like blubber (implying they are a whale) or giblets. It's just downright insulting and hurtful. Making fun of people for things that are true about them is probably to worst and most hurtful thing you can do. Some poeple can't change it. I wasn't always overweight, I had to take a medication when I was younger than screwed me up, and no matter how hard I work, even at my "best" I am still considered overweight. It's 100 times easier to put on weight than to lose it. Breaking my back and then destroying my knee growing up playing sports doesn't help either. I still grew up an athlete, played lacrosse and football, athletic, but overweight. It's a sesnitive target because people constantly feel the need to try and make you feel like less of a person for it. Would you make fun of a person who is actually mentally slow for being dumb?

 

[Jetboy]

I'm 6'3" and 195lbs. I don't feel like I'm fat. I still think the HVAC is weak as hell. Both on hot and cold. My 4runner has heated seats, so I don't worry as much about the hot side of things. The A/C is barely adequate. It's 99 degrees today here. I'm glad I don't have a black 4runner.

FWIW in my experience folks who are most sensitive to heat are hyperthyroid - and as a result are very thin.

Lexus uses the exact same blower and A/C system but delivers much better output. IMO it's time to think about a mod to get more out of our blower motors.

 

[flyrv9]

Seems like the thing to do for those of you who are unhappy with the 4runner's A/C system is to conduct an experiment. Using a couple of thermometers measure the temp of the air coming out of the ducts at various temp and blower settings and compare that to the cabin temp at various locations noting the outside temp and surface temp of your 4runner. Then compare that to Toyota specs for their A/C system. You can bet they have already run those tests and have published data available - In fact it's probably in the repair manual. How else would Toyota techs know the system is running up to spec. Some of you may have a problem with your A/C system that you are blaming this poor performance on. So far in 4 pages of this thread there have been complaints and assumptions - but no hard data, no numbers.

 

[JeremyB]

Hmm fair point. But I can say without a doubt that several previous gen cars I've tried have had cooler A/C's than newer ones.. Not necessarily through fan speed as that varies a lot, but colder air for sure. Just unfortunate that even Holy Toyotas are suffering from the same issue from what I've seen.

R-134a requires larger heat exchanges than R-12, all other things being equal - which is why retrofits tend not to turn out to run as cool and the first R-134a systems underperformed. However, it's easy enough to design around.

Modern mobile A/C may very well be worse than older systems, but that's due to cost cutting, not refrigerant.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

It's not about better parts.
In terms of parts Toyota doesn't pay more (probably a lot less actually) than parts found in a GC, Audi, BMW, etc...

There's much more than parts. There are engineers, profitability, management, and much more.

It's because people like you think that Toyota use "expensive parts" to make their car reliable that a Toyota is (relatively) expensive and the trade off for that is a bad interior.

Trust me, if Toyota were to add in the T4R better tech found in the interior of the GC (so nothing engine related) like heated steering wheel, better touch screen with nav, and so on, a T4R should NOT cost $30k more unless Toyota wants to make it this price.

If they added a "tech package" they would still make a big profit by increasing the price of a T4R LE by $5k.

I'm afraid we'll never see that though unless the T4R gets a real competitor

They did, it was called the GX470 & GX460.

Seems like the thing to do for those of you who are unhappy with the 4runner's A/C system is to conduct an experiment. Using a couple of thermometers measure the temp of the air coming out of the ducts at various temp and blower settings and compare that to the cabin temp at various locations noting the outside temp and surface temp of your 4runner. Then compare that to Toyota specs for their A/C system. You can bet they have already run those tests and have published data available - In fact it's probably in the repair manual. How else would Toyota techs know the system is running up to spec. Some of you may have a problem with your A/C system that you are blaming this poor performance on. So far in 4 pages of this thread there have been complaints and assumptions - but no hard data, no numbers.

Normally if at Max A/C with Recirculation the vents are blowing about 40~45*f at an idle after about 5~10minutes, it's "operating as designed." What I've noticed is that in the Corollas and Camry's they seem to blow more volume of cold air; where as my 4th gen has cold air, but doesn't seem to push as much of it (i.e. if my hand is near the vent it's nice and cold; but sitting in the Driver's seat with the A/C cranked on max with just the vents aimed at me, it doesn't feel that cold or that much air reaching me.)

 

[Koddo]

Sorry Cjacob. Maybe I got carried away a tad....

 

[1engineer]

the heater don't work and it's oh so cold...


That's all I got, but I know my bud Greg will "get it".

You're looking tired, you're looking kind of beat
The rhythm of the street sure knocks you off your feet.

Seems like the thing to do for those of you who are unhappy with the 4runner's A/C system is to conduct an experiment. Using a couple of thermometers measure the temp of the air coming out of the ducts at various temp and blower settings and compare that to the cabin temp at various locations noting the outside temp and surface temp of your 4runner. Then compare that to Toyota specs for their A/C system. You can bet they have already run those tests and have published data available - In fact it's probably in the repair manual. How else would Toyota techs know the system is running up to spec. Some of you may have a problem with your A/C system that you are blaming this poor performance on. So far in 4 pages of this thread there have been complaints and assumptions - but no hard data, no numbers.

I did it for the heater. I'm sure the performance numbers will be similar for the cooling aspect too. People complain. People whine. People want more for less and don't want to lift a finger to get it. People feel they are entitled to have what someone else has even something so paltry as how fast the vehicle cools. Read the posts. It's true. Read the link for a laugh.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...en-take-20-minutes-warm-up-2.html#post1910183

 

[flyrv9]

That's exactly what I was talking about. Some sort of test with the conditions and equipment explained and the data and results documented. That way anyone could duplicate the test and compare their results. For a few bucks you can get a meter (sears has them) that will accommodate a "T" type thermocouple probe that will give pretty accurate results.

 

[longobongo]

I just got back from vacation too and rented a 2014 Hyundai Tucson.... The AC blower seems like it blows 3x as hard as my 2003 4Runner. Is that normal?

To get my 4runner to blow almost as hard I have to close all the passenger/rear air vents... pretty sad...

I bought my 2003 4runner used about 2 years ago, so I don't know if the blower is usually weak right out of the factory..
I am thinking about maybe replacing the blower for a new one, but I don't know if there will even be a difference.