Anyone actually wheel with wheel spaces???

[BlackWorksInc]

Spidertrax ship with red permatex.

That makes me nervous... because usually to remove Red Loctite you need heat, a bit of it (Loctite seems to indicate a "localized heat greater than 550° F") So if you for what ever reason need to remove the hub or rotors, or spindle, ect. you are potentially damaging quite a lot of relatively sensitive rubber & metal components in those areas to undo the spacers. Again, I get that they ship it with the stuff, but for a component that bolts onto serviceable equipment such as rotors, bearings, ect. a "permanent" assembly material like Red Loctite seems excessive.

 

[marshal]

That makes me nervous... because usually to remove Red Loctite you need heat, a bit of it (Loctite seems to indicate a "localized heat greater than 550° F") So if you for what ever reason need to remove the hub or rotors, or spindle, ect. you are potentially damaging quite a lot of relatively sensitive rubber & metal components in those areas to undo the spacers. Again, I get that they ship it with the stuff, but for a component that bolts onto serviceable equipment such as rotors, bearings, ect. a "permanent" assembly material like Red Loctite seems excessive.

(personally) i have never needed anything more than a quick blip with a mapp gas torch to get red off with a breaker bar. never even used heat when taking lugs off with an impact.

all you need is localized heat to make it soft, if you're heating long enough to get to rubber and sensitive metal components you're doing it wrong and the stud will probably be glowing, and your spacer partially melted.

500 degrees is not a lot. your rotors regularly exceed 1500 degrees

 

[Jetboy]

Imo you questioning my advice is bad advise. The spacers are milled from billet ingots of heat hardened 7075-T6 aluminum. If it compresses or stresses, loctite is going to be the least of your concerns.

How do your already stretched grade 8 factory studs have elasticity within the range that you've already torqued them to?

Surely you also red loctite your wheels on too right?

You're torquing them to an unknown new level that's higher than factory by adding a lube to the threads. How much? I don't know the elasticity of the factory studs and you don't know the tension you're placing on them. Lubed torque of 100 ft lbs might be equal to a dry 150 ft lbs. Might be 120. Might be 200.

 

[marshal]

Surely you also red loctite your wheels on too right?

You're torquing them to an unknown new level that's higher than factory by adding a lube to the threads. How much?

why would i locktite my wheels on when i regularly remove them? the only time you need to remove the spacers would be for either repair or replacement of the rotor or inner axle workings. that sounds like a near-permanent installation to me

you're not lubing the threads, you're adding locktite - which has no effect on torque coefficients. with anti-seize and other lubricants, rule of thumb is to reduce your from your dry-torque figures by 20%. Locktite and permatex state that their thread lockers have no bearing on the torque values and to torque to the dry torque value

 

[wpen]

I don't see the reason for wheel spacers...if your wheel/tires do not fit don't put them on. Maybe I am old school, but spacers always added risk/failure where it wasn't needed. Last thing I want is to be out in the middle of nowhere with a wheel spacer failure.

 

[3wbdriver]

I like mine. I wish both pairs were the same color, but since I got each pair for cheap separately, meh.......

If you don't like them or are leery of them, don't buy em. It's really pretty simple. If you want them, install them per manufacturer's instructions and roll on. :wink2:

 

[Jetboy]

This is true, but you do get some corrosion between dissimilar metals; I imagine that the "pretty" anodizing helps deter that to an extent. I'm not sure I would use loctite on a wheel stud myself, let alone the red stuff; if anything I would use the weaker blue because it can be disassembled without heat/excessive torque as you pointed out earlier.

SpiderTraxx builds spacers, hubs, and other components for racing, crawling, ect. vehicles that compete in highly public venues. I highly doubt they'd purposefully design something to be weaker when they have possibly millions of dollars in customers who rely on, and brandish their product with confidence that could easily dissuaded by a poor product.

I think pretty helps them be pretty. Aluminum with sufficient force against aluminum is approximately as good of a bond as a single piece. In large part because aluminum has extremely high friction against aluminum. Anodizing is often used in industrial applications so specifically act as a lubricating coating between aluminum parts. It drops the coefficient of friction by about half.

Ask yourself a question, if you're building a custom race car or buggy why would you ever use a spacer? The only reason you'd ever use one is because you're paid to. Otherwise you'd build a proper width axle or buy proper wheels. You wouldn't use a bandaid unless you're getting paid.

 

[THEROK]

They're wheel adapters. Yes don't buy spacers. You're doing it wrong.

 

[Jetboy]

why would i locktite my wheels on when i regularly remove them? the only time you need to remove the spacers would be for either repair or replacement of the rotor or inner axle workings. that sounds like a near-permanent installation to me

you're not lubing the threads, you're adding locktite - which has no effect on torque coefficients. with anti-seize and other lubricants, rule of thumb is to reduce your from your dry-torque figures by 20%. Locktite and permatex state that their thread lockers have no bearing on the torque values and to torque to the dry torque value

Um.. you don't think that loctite acts as a lubricant? Really? (The product materials specifically state that it does)

You must think the risk of them falling off is greater? Otherwise why would you loctite something that wont come off?

 

[3wbdriver]

I don't see the reason for wheel spacers...if your wheel/tires do not fit don't put them on. Maybe I am old school, but spacers always added risk/failure where it wasn't needed. Last thing I want is to be out in the middle of nowhere with a wheel spacer failure.

So, in answering the OP's question - "Anyone actually wheel with spacers?" - you are actually admitting you don't run them and have NO experience with them? IE, you just want to offer an unsolicited opinion?

 

[carlomagne]

All I know is that we have 6 people in our group that use spidertrax and one of them has been wheeling for 7 years without any issues whatsoever.

If you don't want to use them, then don't. This is as bad as the whole bolt on vs weld on slider debate.

 

[marshal]

Um.. you don't think that loctite acts as a lubricant? Really?

You must think the risk of them falling off is greater? Otherwise why would you loctite something that wont come off?

hey, I'm not the manufacturer and industrial engineering and chemistry company that says that its made specifically to not affect a friction coefficient of torque value.

i wonder what they put in gear oil to make clutch packs in limited slips stick to metal... i can't remember for the life of me. isn't modern chemistry the weirdest thing? you'd think that they could pretty much make anything do what they want it to, too bad its all a conspiracy.

 

[Jetboy]

It specifically says it acts as a thread lubricant - from the manufacturer. Are they lying?

Back to the wheels - are your wheels going to fall off? Do you attach them in some special way that they are secure, but your spacers aren't?

 

[3wbdriver]

Not a conspiracy. It's a black art.....

 

[3wbdriver]

Jetboy, I have one question for you. After 2 pages of back and forth with Marshal and never really saying so, do you or do you not run some form of spacer, as the OP was asking?

 

[marshal]

It specifically says it acts as a thread lubricant - from the manufacturer. Are they lying?

Back to the wheels - are your wheels going to fall off? Do you attach them in some special way that they are secure, but your spacers aren't?

if yours says it acts as a lubricant, fine - i don't give a shit, reduce your torque input by 20%. mine says that it does not act as a lubricant and to torque to dry torque value, i'll go by that.

my wheels are plenty secure, and I'm not really sure why you're so hell bent on comparing them to the spacers. if i didn't frequently remove and replace my wheels and wanted to set it and forget it, id probably use locktite there too, like i do with my spacers.

god you are as dense as a brick of lead

 

[wpen]

So, in answering the OP's question - "Anyone actually wheel with spacers?" - you are actually admitting you don't run them and have NO experience with them? IE, you just want to offer an unsolicited opinion?

Correct...I don't run wheel spacers and don't recommend them. Never said I don't have any experience with them. Unsolicited is an oxymoron on a public forum. If you notice I don't post much and tend to steer clear of controversy, but I am a firm believer that wheel spacers are an added risk that is not needed. I don't mean to offend you and if you want to off road with spacers that is fine, but my philosophy does not jive with yours. As an aside I have never met someone who I agree with all the time, have you? No worries in having a difference of opinion, nice road trip btw. :tea:

 

[Bevo]

It specifically says it acts as a thread lubricant - from the manufacturer. Are they lying?

Back to the wheels - are your wheels going to fall off? Do you attach them in some special way that they are secure, but your spacers aren't?

So the manufacturer recommendation from loctite is gospel, but recommendations from spidertrax are BS and not required?

 

[Jetboy]

if yours says it acts as a lubricant, fine - i don't give a shit, reduce your torque input by 20%. mine says that it does not act as a lubricant and to torque to dry torque value, i'll go by that.

my wheels are plenty secure, and I'm not really sure why you're so hell bent on comparing them to the spacers. if i didn't frequently remove and replace my wheels and wanted to set it and forget it, id probably use locktite there too, like i do with my spacers.

god you are as dense as a brick of lead

My point is that if your wheels are safe without loctite so are the spacers. Is that a complex concept? It doesn't matter if your putting them on for a day or a decade. That's a nonsensical justification.

 

[Jetboy]

So the manufacturer recommendation from loctite is gospel, but recommendations from spidertrax are BS and not required?

Yes.