>BUILD THREAD< The4kbeast's 3rd-Gen 2000 T4R SR5 (Highlander Edition) 4x4 Build

[The4kbeast]

TRD/OME 5100 Lift Pics

Final ride height is 2.5" higher than we're my suspension started. Measurement was 22" front, 22" rear with an empty gas tank:

After I topped off the tank, the measurements were:
FL: 21 3/4 FR: 22
RL: 22 RR: 21 3/4
I can't believe I called that lift amount. I don't think I've seen anyone run this combo on here.

Static front length after settling after the first drive: 18 1/8 ( vs 16 3/4 stock = 2 3/8" longer). The TRD springs were new, so I expect some settling.

Other photos:

Now to decide on tires and analyze the numbers to plan out bump stops. Oh, and get an alignment... But first will need to do the lbj, ran out of time today.

 

[SCRunner12]

Any reason you went with the Double Cab coils? Looks good though and those tires look tiny now.

 

[fightman80]

Looking good man! I like the attention to detail!

 

[The4kbeast]

Any reason you went with the Double Cab coils? Looks good though and those tires look tiny now.

It was a recommendation from Steve at Sanoran Steel based on the ride quality I was looking for. I highly recommend him, as a he great tribal knowledge of what works and what doesn't. If you're looking to simplify your build and don't like getting into the weeds on selecting your own components, he offers great starting points that he can adapt to what you're looking for. Plus, I like that he utilizes OEM quality components instead of imitation parts from questionable sources.

The tires do look tiny - they are next on my list, though. Hard to believe that this is only a two inch lift (2.5), as it looks big now. I want to get tires next - hoping to find some used as a temporary solution. Was thinking 32s, but with the LX wheels 33s are tempting. How do you like your 265/75/R16s?

Looking good man! I like the attention to detail!

Thanks man, figured it was time for me to quit lurking and start posting since I learned so much from this forum before buying my Runner.

 

[The4kbeast]

SEMA 2012 in Las Vegas... Need to write recap!!

At SEMA this week in Vegas... Amazing show, but it allowed me some time to get hands on time with a bunch of the stuff that's available and also coming in the next year... Great to see trucks and SUVs will still be getting the love. Got to talk to companies such as Radflo, Icon, King, to ToyTec and others. Also saw the Metal Tech 5th gen 4Runner.

Got me thinking back on my project. If I'm going to have the front end apart doing the LBJs, then I should probably do the UCAs. Figured I'd dig up my list of to do's and update it:

FRONT:
X - OEM Tundra Double Cab TRD Springs
X - 5100 Tundra front struts on 1/5 (lowest) setting, ~2.5”
New OEM LBJ/nuts/bolt (waiting to be installed)
SS tapered diff drop (waiting to be installed)
**Researching** UCAs
**Researching** Custom lower Timbren bump stops
**Researching** Light Racing Jounce Kits, front: http://www.lightracing.com/images/stories/articles/installins/25742-INS.pdf
**Researching** Stainless Steel Brake lines

BACK:
X - OME 906 rear spring (~2.5”)
X - Bilstein 5100 for Chevy Silverado with ¾” Rear Bushings
SS rear SS extended brake line (waiting to be installed)
**Researching**
**Researching**
**Researching** SS Adj rear panhard bar - $175 –OR- custom bar
**Researching** Light Racing Jounce Kits, rear: http://www.spcalignment.net/instructions/25746-INS_WEB.pdf

On the topic of UCAs, I've been doing a bunch of reading on the interweb and had a really good chat with the good folks in R&D at Icon at the show. With a 2" lift over factory ride height, I'm right at the cutoff for when the factory stuff starts to run out of adjustment. There is a big debate on the web on uniball usage on street driven vehicles. I agree that most people I know wouldn't pay close enough attention to ensure their 'balls are clean on a bi-weekly basis. The guys at Icon said if the owner cleans the uniballs out with compressed air only, then there shouldn't be an issue with them. That said, they aren't meant to be represented as a long term item, especially in areas do the country that see harsh weather and conditions. Just keep them clean and keep an eye on them and you can limit the chances they'll be damaged.

But that got me thinking... what are all of the benefits of aftermarket ucas?

• Improved camber adjustment
• Improved caster adjustment
• Wider angle capabilities on flex joint, increasesing droop travel capacity

If all I need is a wider adjustment range for getting better geometry for quality alignments, why not just go with a Light Racing UCA? I like that they have a sealed boot on the ball joint, but have never seen anyone say without a doubt if they will limit droop travel. For me, I don't want to give up droop travel, even if it does get my geometry back in line. So do Light Racing UCAs allow greater flex angles that the stock setup?

So I dug around LRs site and found this in the FAQ which is applicable to SPC (LR) 25460 (and 25430 and others)
""3.* Q. I have a lift kit, will the control arms handle the increased angle?
3.* A. These control arms have approximately 20˚more articulation capability than your OEM arms (85˚for the SPC vs. 65˚for the stock ball joint.) If your stock arms had sufficient travel in the ball joint, these arms will not be the limiting factor to suspension travel.""
25460-25470-25480-25490 Toyota Adjustable Upper Control Arms

20˚ sounds like a great improvement over stock, thanks to that larger ball joint. But... that is only 10˚ per side, which isn't much. A good question I'll have to dig in to is how much does a uniball improve flex in degrees over stock. Also, on the extended travel coilovers that manufacturers mandate upper arms for, what are their extended lengths from mounting point to point. And really, since I don't have a super-extended setup, how much extra droop and susaquent angle do I need to take advantage of the longer struts I have?

Also, I've seen a few people referring to complaints that the Light Racing upper control arms have issues with coming loose. SPC has a note in their FAQ saying to up the torque. Their words:

""6.* Q. The upper nut on my ball joint came loose. How can I prevent this?
6.* A. We have had a few cases of this, mostly limited to arms that have been powder coated or painted, but also occasionally on trucks with very large tires that are used for rough rock crawling. We have revised the torque spec on the top nut from 120 ftlb to 150 to combat this issue. If you feel that you are at risk from having the nut come loose, you can torque it up to 175ftlb. If you have decided to powder coat or put on another secondary paint, it is recommended that you re-torque the nut a day or two after the initial alignment, as added coatings tend to compress, and may affect clamping torque.""

 

[The4kbeast]

Article is pretty old, but there is a treasure trove of information in it:

Comparing Tacoma Coil Over Shocks - August 2004 Off-Road.com: Off-Road.com
Comparing Tacoma Coil Over Shocks - August 2004 Off-Road.com: Off-Road.com

King Shocks:
"King claims that they have observed binding of the steering components when the suspension is extended beyond the factory travel, so they limited the shock's stroke to 4.5", which equates to approx. 7.9" of travel. Some of the other manufactures have squeezed out a bit more stroke resulting in up to 9.5" of wheel travel."

Sway-A-Way (Usually referred to as SAW): No mention of suspension or wheel travel, just reference to a 15" spring

Icon (Formerly Donahue Racing):
Reference to a 13" spring, which is said to help avoid coil bind (condition where the coils compress to max, then bottom out on each other). "Donahue offers two models of their Tacoma coil-over, one is a direct replacement bolt-in coil-over designed to work with otherwise stock suspension trucks that allows for 8.75" of suspension travel. They also offer a 0.5" longer stroke model that is specific for Tacoma's equipped with aftermarket uni-ball upper control arms such as those made by Total Chaos, Camburg or All-Pro, which offers .75" of additional travel, totaling 9.5" of vertical wheel travel. Donahoe makes one of the most expensive replacement coil-overs available, but we feel that the extensive R&D has resulted in the highest level of performance that we have personally experienced in a stock-width truck."

All-Pro:
Reference to a Bilstein made 2" diameter 6100 series Tundra coil-over, which would be SWEET to repurpose for a 4Runner! Wish I would have heard about this before! "All-Pro recommends the use of differential drop spacers and uni-ball control arms to help handle the additional droop (0.53" more than the Donahoe uni-ball specific arms which have the second longest stroke) that the Bilsteins are capable of providing. However we are not convinced that the stock ball-joints and CV drive shafts can handle the full 10+" of travel the Bilsteins are capable of providing." They go on to recommend limiting straps to take up an inch of down travel.

Fabtech Dirt Logic: No mention of travel lengths.

Camburg Engineering:
First, theyre in Huntington Beach CA. As of the time this was written, "Camburg had enlisted Sway-A-Way's help in manufacturing these shocks which have many of the same features as the Fabtech Dirt Logic coil-overs (also produced by Sway-A-Way)."

Need to look back at some of my measurements to see how this might apply to my strut lengths.

 

[The4kbeast]

My list of take always from the article in one spot

Comparing Tacoma Coil Over Shocks - August 2004 Off-Road.com: Off-Road.com
Comparing Tacoma Coil Over Shocks - August 2004 Off-Road.com: Off-Road.com

My takeaways from the article, which are applicable to 3rd gen 4Runners:

• From the multiple mentions of strut/shock travel to wheel travel (they are correlated, but not on a 1:1 ratio) they correlate on a 1:1.75" level. So for every inch of shock stroke change, the wheel will travel 1.75". For example, King stuck with the stock stroke of 4.5", which equates to approx. 7.9" of travel at the wheels.
  
• 13-15" length spring is ideal to help avoid coil bind (condition where the coils compress to max, then bottom out on each other).
  
• Donahue's direct replacement bolt-in coil-overs for stock suspension allows for 8.75" of suspension travel but doesn't require upper control arms. Using the ratio above, that would indicate they were using a 5" stroke strut.
  
• Donahue's 0.5" longer stroke model (5.5" stroke, total) that is specific for Tacoma's equipped with aftermarket uni-ball upper control arms such as those made by Total Chaos, Camburg or All-Pro, which offers .75" of additional travel, totaling 9.5" of vertical wheel travel.
  
• All-Pro recommends the use of differential drop spacers and uni-ball control arms to help handle the additional droop (0.53" more than the Donahoe uni-ball specific arms which have the second longest stroke) that the Bilsteins are capable of providing.
  
• Off-Road.com was not convinced that the stock ball-joints and CV drive shafts could handle 10+" of travel. They go on to recommend limiting straps to take up an inch of down travel.
  
• Bilstein made 2" diameter 6100 series Tundra coil-over, which would be SWEET to repurpose for a 4Runner! May still be worth looking into...
  
• The stock upper ball joint is the first limiting factor in the travel of IFS Tacoma trucks. By replacing the upper ball-joint with a Uni-ball (large spherical bearing) you can achieve different range of angularity resulting in as much as 9.5" of wheel travel. This is fine for all of the travel ranges, except for the old All-Pro components.
  
• According to Off-Road.com, as long as the coil-overs are set to 2.5" of lift or less the CV's and boots should not wear out much faster than on a stock vehicle. However the closer to stock angles you can maintain for the CV's, the longer they will last.
  

Looks like I'll have to read their previous story, here: Project Tacoma Sway-A-Way Long Travel Coil-Over Shocks: Off-Road.com

Oh, and their Glossary was good enough that I wanted it to live on here, just in case they decide to delete it (like they deleted the spec comparison chart referenced in the article):

GLOSSARY
-Shocks- Emulsion: An emulsion shock has no internal floating piston to separate the nitrogen from the shock fluid. Emulsion (or aeration) quickly leads to shock fade and less efficient damping because the shock fluid changes viscosity allowing it to freely pass through the piston and valve-shims. Reservoir: Reservoir equipped shocks (both external and internal) feature a floating piston that separates the nitrogen from the shock fluid in order to eliminate the possibility of aerating the shock fluid, which quickly leads to fading performance. External Reservoir: An external reservoir can mounted either piggy-back (mounted directly to the shock body), or remotely (attached to the shock body by a flexible hose). External reservoir shocks are often used in applications where a long shock stroke is needed in relation to overall shock length in a confined mounting space. Internal Reservoir: Similar to an external reservoir in purpose, but contained within the actual shock body and not visible. Internal reservoir shocks are often used when a relatively short shock stroke is needed in relation to the overall length of shock. Shock Fade: Performance deterioration due to overheating or emulsion/aeration of shock fluid and the nitrogen charge. Excessive heat within the shock can cause the shock fluid to thin (lose viscosity). Shocks are usually valved for a specific oil weight and changes in viscosity compromise the intended damping characteristics of the shock. Shock fade is often a result of prolonged periods of high speed driving over severe terrain such as "whoops" or braking bumps. Piston / Valving: All shocks feature a shaft-mounted piston (not to be confused with a floating, reservoir piston). The piston functions by forcing fluid through small holes (valves) for low-speed compression damping and larger holes (apertures) for high-speed compression damping. Apertures are larger holes in the piston that regulate oil flow via a series of thin flexible steel washers (shims) that deflect once a certain amount of pressure is achieved. Once the shims have deflected, the shock fluid can pass more freely through the piston. There is a separate shim-stack for both the rebound and compression side of the piston and they can be individually tuned to have distinct compression and rebound characteristics. By modifying the shim-stack different flow characteristics can be achieved. This is commonly referred to as "custom-valving". Stroke: The total amount of piston shaft travel within the shock body. Also measured as the difference between the extended and compressed length of any shock. Bottom-Out: When a shock reaches full compression (the opposite of top-out). Top-Out: When a shock reaches full extension (the opposite of bottom out). Eye-To-Eye (I-2-I): Distance from the center of one shock mounting hole to the center of the opposite shock mounting hole. Useful measurements are often taken at full compression, ride height and full extension. Heim-Joint (spherical bearing): Often used for shock mounts, steering and suspension pivots on race cars and off-road vehicles. These joints allow for a high degree of angularity (when used with hi-misalignment spacers) and are an excellent method of attaching articulating components, although they do require some degree of maintenance and infrequent replacement (depending on use).

-Coil Springs- Spring Measurements: Usually printed on the coil- spring with the spring free length first, spring diameter second and spring rate last. For example; if a spring reads, 1600/0300/650 it is a 16" spring, 3.0" in diameter spring with a 650lb spring rate. Spring Rate: Measured in ppsi (pounds per square inch). For example: if a spring is rated at 500 ppsi, then it will require 500 pounds of pressure to compress that spring one inch. The spring will compress another inch for every additional 500 pounds of weight placed upon it. Spring Travel: The distance in inches that a coil-spring can be compressed before being over-compressed (causing fatigue) or reaching coil-bind. For example: if a spring measures 16" at free length and 9" compressed, it has 7" of spring travel. This number is important for determining the maximum amount of pre-load that can be placed on a coil-spring before it achieves coil-bind and therefore limits the available shock travel. Coil-bind: When individual winds of the coil-spring come into contact with each other prior to full compression of the suspension, resulting in a loss of suspension travel and harsh metal-on-metal contact as the spring bottoms out. Usually a result of using the wrong coil-springs or too much pre-load being placed on a coil-spring. Causing a spring to reach coil-bind can damage suspension components and may cause the spring to sag. Pre-Load: Affects the ride-height of the vehicle by placing initial load on the coil-spring. Pre-load is set by adjusting a collar up or down a threaded shock body to a desired position and then locking it into place with either a set screw or by jamming two collars against each other. Typically a spanner wrench is required to adjust pre-load on an adjustable coil over shock.

 

[The4kbeast]

Applying loose rules to my setup

If you've somehow managed to follow my wordy build, you'll know I'm running front Tundra Bilstein 5100s. I covered their specs here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ghlander-edition-4x4-build-4.html#post1195708

More to the point, the Tundra dimensions were 474 mm extended, 335 mm compressed length, leaving us with 5.47" strut travel. Using the ratio from the geometry from the article, that would mean that the Tundras are capable of 9.5725" of suspension travel at the actual wheel.

On a side note, the 4.76" Taco 5100 Bilstein shocks give 8.33" of travel on the front. 9.57" of travel from the Tundra sounds better now, doesn't it?

 

[The4kbeast]

Just occurred to me I should be comparing the Tundra strut/wheel travel to stock units to get a baseline so I can get a better idea where I'm gaining and losing travel. Wth, right? Good thing I haven't tossed to stock units yet. Will have to measure them this weekend. They did mention 4.5" of travel in the article, which is 7.875 of wheel travel. Sounds right, but I Should verify instead of assuming.

Looking at Steve's awesome reference chart, I can see using replacement Bilstein 2540 units won't give me accurate numbers to start with like I did with the rears. Check it out and bookmark it if you haven't:
http://www.sonoransteel.com/include...eel/TechArticles/1996-2002ToyotaRearShock.pdf

Too late. Ran with the numbers I had to see what it looked like. So here's what I found:

Big thing is 1.7" more travel at the wheel (~1" on shock). Also shifted the balance of up/down travel and picked up 2 5/8" (2.625") more down travel, but it did cost me just under an inch of up travel. Small price to pay!

Not compared above; Tacoma 5100 front versus Tundra 5100:
But the Tundra only adds 1mm ~ 0.039" of down travel at the strut, or 0.07" at the wheel. So there's no need for limiting straps for down travel (or is there...). There is, however, ~17mm ~.67" more up travel than a Tacoma 5100. That is 1.17" of actual travel at the wheel (no wonder these struts work well for bigger lifts!). So i guess I'm coming to the same conclusion as earlier, except now I have a better understanding of what's going on numerically.

Final Takeaways:

• No limiting straps
• The most important thing that will need addressed? The suspension assembly at max compression happens an inch and 7/8" sooner than the stock setup. There are serious implications here, as that means my stock bump stops are too short now to prevent bottoming out!

 

[The4kbeast]

Note to self:

Measure inner diameter of stock 4Runner spring and see if stock spring would fit over Tundra strut. Might balance out up/down travel... but really the reason why I want to is because I've seen conflicting information and would be good to say difinitively.

Measure front bump stops.

Also, post travel comparison for OEM vs New setup on rear. : )

 

[The4kbeast]

Tires, tires, tires

Choices, choices, choices...

95% of my driving will be a mix of around town and highway. But when I do hit the trail, it will most likely be dry loam over hardpack. Not extreme mud. Not extreme rock crawling. As such, I'm not looking for a MT. Heck, even a extreme AT seems silly unless it wears well. Looking for an AT that is brilliant of the highway, doesn't hum bad, wears extremely well, yet doesn't have sidewalks that double as bricks and a compound that is too soft or hard.

Here's what I've been looking at, sized in a 265/75/R16 (32):

• Mickey Thompson STD, er, I mean STZ
• Mickey Thompson ATZ Radial Plus
• BFG Rugged Terrain
• BFG T/A KO
• General Tire Grabber AT2

 

[BrianSD_42]

None of those.

BFG AT 265x75x16 or General Tire AT2

 

[The4kbeast]

None of those.

BFG AT 265x75x16 or General Tire AT2

The TA KO I was referring to is the same as your BFG... And is similar to the AT2:
bfg at ko - Google Search

Not for nothing, but the BFGs and Generals AT2s have been done before. Just... Testing the waters to see what else is out there.

 

[00_4runner]

Your frame is so clean.... its disgusting. Keep up the good work!

 

[The4kbeast]

Your frame is so clean.... its disgusting. Keep up the good work!

It is... that's the beauty of picking up a California's commuter rig. Dont want to disgust everyone on the forums, so it won't be this clean for long!

 

[Yoter]

Really cool build so far, I have an almost identical 4runner!
Just installed my lift last week, tundra 5100's along with access cab TRD springs and 906's in the back.
I read that Steve recommended the double cab springs for your needs, would you mind providing some more details?
What advantages do they offer? What are the differences? Is it a heavier coil?

 

[The4kbeast]

Really cool build so far, I have an almost identical 4runner!
Just installed my lift last week, tundra 5100's along with access cab TRD springs and 906's in the back.
I read that Steve recommended the double cab springs for your needs, would you mind providing some more details?
What advantages do they offer? What are the differences? Is it a heavier coil?

Thanks Yoter. That just means you have good taste, unlike the rest of the pirates on this site.
Very similar lift, indeed. What is your fender edge to center hub measurement and which mount did you use? Curious if my new springs resulted in a higher lift up front.
Steve said that the YY/ YB or YR (whatever it is) was for earlier TRD models, and that they were the wrong springs for my setup. Said that most of the info on this site can get twisted and really I didn't want to wade through the for sale ads, so I bought new. Believe it or not, his prices are amazing. What he quoted me was what dealers sell them wholesale for. Plus he supports the community and has a wealth of knowledge on our rigs.
No idea if it's a thicker coil, etc. Do you have a micrometer to measure the springs diameter? Maybe we could count coils and get some info together on how they're different? What color combo of front springs do you have, and what year are they off of?

 

[The4kbeast]

Your recent parts order... Light Racing UCAs

Oh, BTW... Ordered some Light Racing UCAs. I had a moment of weakness after I saw Fat Bobs pricing. Ewww, that sounds incredibly dirty. :barf: It all comes down to caster. Wasn't worried about the upper joint limiting travel, or even making room for larger tires. I figure it will be one of the single greatest mods I could do to improve steering feel. Also ordered some recovery straps. ETA isn't until next week. Should have time to get the ball joints, UCAs, and get an alignment in time for a trip to Ocotillo.

Sounds like I'm helping a fellow board member with a Cooling system service this weekend. Might have time to fit a ball joint in. Or two.

TO DO LIST:
Measure inner diameter of stock 4Runner spring and see if stock spring would fit over Tundra strut. Might balance out up/down travel... but really the reason why I want to is because I've seen conflicting information and would be good to say difinitively.

Install LBJs
Install UCAs
Measure front end links, locate 2" longer front end links that are cheaper that the $200 ones they sell for 4Runner
Get new bushings for front sway bar links, move to rear
Flex and measure both front and rear bump stops.

Also, post travel comparison for OEM vs New setup on rear, like I did for the front. I learned a lot doing that. : )

 

[Millerad1651]

Choices, choices, choices...

95% of my driving will be a mix of around town and highway. But when I do hit the trail, it will most likely be dry loam over hardpack. Not extreme mud. Not extreme rock crawling. As such, I'm not looking for a MT. Heck, even a extreme AT seems silly unless it wears well. Looking for an AT that is brilliant of the highway, doesn't hum bad, wears extremely well, yet doesn't have sidewalks that double as bricks and a compound that is too soft or hard.

Here's what I've been looking at, sized in a 265/75/R16 (32):

• Mickey Thompson STD, er, I mean STZ
• Mickey Thompson ATZ Radial Plus
• BFG Rugged Terrain
• BFG T/A KO
• General Tire Grabber AT2

Might I also suggest these tires...sound exactly like what you're looking for.

These come in a P or LT rating...
Ratings, reviews and specifications for BFGoodrich Rugged Terrain T/A tires
Ratings, reviews and specifications for BFGoodrich Rugged Terrain T/A tires

or these...I have them and love them. Plus a 50k warranty...
Ratings, reviews and specifications for Falken Rocky Mountain ATS tires

 

[The4kbeast]

Might I also suggest these tires...sound exactly like what you're looking for.

These come in a P or LT rating...
Ratings, reviews and specifications for BFGoodrich Rugged Terrain T/A tires
Ratings, reviews and specifications for BFGoodrich Rugged Terrain T/A tires

I've actually had my eyes on those. They are a low void tire, which is fine I guess because I won't see a lot of mud in so cal. My big worry is that the tire will look stupid with my lift because it doesn't look aggressive (can't believe I just said that). I definitely like them better than the look of the Rugged Trails, which are quite capable tires.

or these...I have them and love them. Plus a 50k warranty...
Ratings, reviews and specifications for Falken Rocky Mountain ATS tires

My buddy has those on his 97, and he likes them, too. They seemed to run smaller than the tires he replaced them with. The tread and sidewall look pretty busy... I'm probably leaning towards something with a simpler, yet still aggressive tread pattern.

And of course, all this goes out the window if I manage to pick a used set of BFG ATs up off my co workers TRD FJ. Two of them might be worth saving, so I might need three new.... Eh... Still $$$