Dirtco's 1999 4Runner Build
- Thread starter Dirtco
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Dirtco
New member
that is, if he plans to run a tire 37" or under....:naughty:
We're thinking out loud for you Dirtco lol
Really I'm at a crossroads, and I've thought about everyone of these options. To make matters even worse the steering rack has a ton of play. I really hope it's just the guide; it's the driver side and I have 1/4" - 1/2" of vertical movement when I move the d/s wheel back and forth. It makes quite the racket on the trail!
Here is the problem, this is my daily driver and i don't have my own garage to do the work in.
[MENTION=56044]downpour11[/MENTION] - I would love to run one tons (60's, 14 bolt, etc), but I would need 40's or 42's to clear the massive diff's on the trail. With one tons I would just run leaf springs because the axles are so heavy that your not going anywhere fast, and one tons with leaf springs just work. But this is no where near a feasible daily driver option. I would have to get rid of the flares, cut the fenders, etc, etc, etc. It's really not an option, but it would be cool!
[MENTION=51127]Dous[/MENTION] / [MENTION=88391]NateMob[/MENTION] - The next option is a SAS via HP Dana 44 or a Toyota based front axle. This would be my preferred option, but it has issue's too.
There are two ways i could do this, leaf springs or a 3 link. A leaf spring swap is some what quick and easy, but it's going to set tall which I don't like (I would need to run 37's, and get rid of the flares). I could go spring under but then I have even less clearance than the IFS.
A link suspension would be the way I would like to do it, but I don't have my own shop. It takes a long time to dial in a link suspension right and there's no way I could set it up on my own in a weekend. All-Pro makes a kit but there's not many details on it, and it's designed around a Dynatrac axle. ORS used to make a kit, but I don't know where they stand on that since they just reopened and it's not listed on their site. Even a kit would take more than a long weekend, and it's expensive $$$! Not that it's out of the question, there's just major logistical issue's involved.
[MENTION=88576]smkd13[/MENTION] - I could run the RCV's, I've been talking via PM with [MENTION=90485]URBAN ASSAULT[/MENTION] about this. But they are expensive, and I would still have the weak ADD parts, along with the weak ring and pinion. I don't know how far down the chain this breakage will continue. I also have the steering rack that will need to be addressed on a normal basis. I really don't mind wheeling the IFS, I just wish it would hold together better.
The last option is to run what I have, and fix shit when it breaks. I've thought about getting a set of light wheels with 35" all terrains for everyday use, and a set of 35" Pitbull's or Swampers on the beadlocks for snow wheeling like [MENTION=62779]Kurtis[/MENTION] . At this point I don't know what to do, the IFS is going to suck me dry without any added benefit, but I don't have the resources to handle this the right way.
I even thought about pulling a [MENTION=7992]Ripcord[/MENTION] or [MENTION=63060]rickashay[/MENTION] and buying a built rig (like a FJ80) and de-modding the 4Runner for the wife to drive, but she didn't like that idea and I really don't want to start over.
Ugh...
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jason in tn
New member
Dirtco I'm just asking , are the front end issues attributed to one mod or a combination of everything. I mean I know its just a weak set up when moded but what I'm getting is could you unmod a few things to lessen the stress. I'm just thinking out loud I'm sure if it was posable you would have done it already. Anyway sorry to hear about the issues and look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Dirtco
New member
Hey Jason, it's really not a huge deal. It's just frustrating for me because I'm the kind of person that likes to upgrade when I see a weak point, and/or break something. The process of changing out a CV is not a big deal, I've gotten pretty good at it and it doesn't bother me much. Trust me, after swapping one out on top of six feet of snow, changing one on a sunny 75 degree day is not bad! The steering and front suspension in combination with the CV is what got me down, especially since this is my daily driver, but after thinking about this for over a week now I see that a SAS just isn't in the cards for me at this point in my life. I'll just have to deal the fact that I'm going to be replacing stuff on a regular basis. Sometimes you have to pay to play!
Since you asked, I honestly feel that it is combination of everything. With 35" tires, extremely heavy beadlock wheels (45 pounds each), low air pressure at times, and just the sheer amount of wheeling I do; it all adds up and takes a toll on components that were never designed to take this amount of stress. Even on the Turbo 4Runner I had to replace tie rod ends at every oil change because the hydro assist would eat them alive.
I really like the idea of having a second set of light wheels and some 35" agressive all terrains, and saving the beadlocks for snow wheeling. I could drop 25-35 pounds per corner! But that is also a lot money to spend, and there is no gaurantee that it will make that much of a difference in how well the front end holds together.
Those would help with just general wear, and not having to swap out a broken CV to drive home, but I don't see it adding any strength to the front end. If anything the manual CV's are weaker, and I already have the Lotus axles for ADD. Thanks for the input though.
the great him
Elite Member
maunal hubs are not as easy or fast to swap out as ADD, and they arent any stronger, so not really a benefit except for MPG and saving boots, but i think Dirtco wouldnt see any improvements in his MPG with the heavy tires and wheels he is running, and i dont think he keeps CVs long enough to see boot failure first lol
Dirtco
New member
Yeah it sucks, but I'm also really pushing the limit of what a 3rd Gen 4Runner IFS can take (tires and wheels, the trails I have been running, and the lines I take). I had a pretty negative attitude in the last couple posts, I was just frustrated and needed to think out loud a little.
Glen and Lotus Axles has been great to deal with, the best customer service I have ever had in this industry, seriously! I really don't see you having any issue's, but if you do he will have your back! I guess if there is one positive out of this whole thing, me breaking parts on my truck makes a better product for you guys!
I'm going to keep running the Lotus axles for a while, and keep everyone updated on the progress. I don't even want to think about how many cheapo CV's I would have destroyed! There's no doubt these are stronger than stock.
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URBAN ASSAULT
New member
Yeah, I believe I'm on my 4th set, but more due to the pains of research and development. I just added an RCV update to my build so as not to congest Dirtco's build.
I have no doubt that Dirtco will find a solution and have us all drooling, as always.
Thanks!
rickashay
New member
Bummer on the whole tire chunking and CV breakage Jeremiah. Although you do wheel pretty hard so I am not really surprised.... I'll be watching where you go from here, very interested to see where you end up.
A linked front end on this truck would be pretty epic, but at which point do you cross over into trail-truck territory. You would know better than I, with having so many wild rigs in the past but once you go down that SAS route, where do you stop? Next you up the tire size, then start running harder trails again, then start breaking more stuff and damaging the body....
I dunno, I say keep at it in it's current form. I like seeing a hella capable yet still minty fresh, IFS truck out on the trails. Like I said, I'm just gunna sit back here and watch cause we all know it's going to end up awesome in one way or the other.
I wish I still had the bookmark, but there was a Steering Rack company making supposedly beefier steering racks for these trucks and 1st gen Tacomas. They weren't rebuilt but I recall the website claiming they were holding up better than OEM units due to some internet beefed up components. Wish I had the link, but it's out there. If I find it I'll post the link.
A linked front end on this truck would be pretty epic, but at which point do you cross over into trail-truck territory. You would know better than I, with having so many wild rigs in the past but once you go down that SAS route, where do you stop? Next you up the tire size, then start running harder trails again, then start breaking more stuff and damaging the body....
I dunno, I say keep at it in it's current form. I like seeing a hella capable yet still minty fresh, IFS truck out on the trails. Like I said, I'm just gunna sit back here and watch cause we all know it's going to end up awesome in one way or the other.
I wish I still had the bookmark, but there was a Steering Rack company making supposedly beefier steering racks for these trucks and 1st gen Tacomas. They weren't rebuilt but I recall the website claiming they were holding up better than OEM units due to some internet beefed up components. Wish I had the link, but it's out there. If I find it I'll post the link.
Kurtis
New member
I believe you are talking about this one.
Safari LTD - Parts (New, Used Toyota, Lexus & Scion Parts)
rickashay
New member
Nailed it, thanks Kurtis!
NateMob
New member
:iagree:Yeah it sucks, but I'm also really pushing the limit of what a 3rd Gen 4Runner IFS can take (tires and wheels, the trails I have been running, and the lines I take). I had a pretty negative attitude in the last couple posts, I was just frustrated and needed to think out loud a little.
Glen and Lotus Axles has been great to deal with, the best customer service I have ever had in this industry, seriously! I really don't see you having any issue's, but if you do he will have your back! I guess if there is one positive out of this whole thing, me breaking parts on my truck makes a better product for you guys!
I'm going to keep running the Lotus axles for a while, and keep everyone updated on the progress. I don't even want to think about how many cheapo CV's I would have destroyed! There's no doubt these are stronger than stock.
I couldn't agree more about my dealings with Glen, he really is an awesome dude to do business with. Regarding my setup, i hope to never have issues, but i definitely do not hold back knowing that he takes care of his customers so well.
Glad to hear you with a bit better attitude about your truck and i think you have a good outlook on your truck's future and what you want for it.
I believe you are talking about Safari Ltd. I know they are making upgraded steering racks, I got it bookmarked for when the time comes!. Not much information out there on what they change but i seem to remember they have a pretty good warranty to back their product.
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DAMN, too slow! Kurtis coming through in the clutch.
Dirtco
New member
Thank you Addison! You really hit the nail on the head, it's a slippery slope once the torch comes out, especially for a daily driver. You step up to 37's, remove the flares, cut the body a little, then get a dent or two, push it through harder trails, and next thing you know it's pretty much a trail truck. Been there, done that, and seen it happen way too much! Funny thing is after a couple seasons most of those people wish they could go back to the point where I'm at, an all around rig that you can drive to work but also run 95% of the trails out there.
I'm going to stick with the IFS for now. I honestly think that if I was going to spend all the money to SAS this, just to run all the trails I run right now (plus one or two extra), that I would be better off just going long travel. At least then I can jump it and haul some ass! I'm just joking... but seriously, it would be awesome!
I'm not too worried about the tire, these KM2's are wearing really fast and all the lugs are getting rounded off. They are good tires, work great in the rocks and on the trail, but I don't see myself getting through next winter driving these on the street without some extra siping or creative grooving. Are you still sold on the MTZ's?
Dirtco
New member
Thanks for all the help guys! Funny, I was just talking with [MENTION=94050]cdrewferd[/MENTION] about this last night via PM. I noticed he had just installed a new rack, it was through the same place. I'm going to try replacing the rack guide first, but I'm sure this will be needed in the the not so distant future. It would be nice to know exactly what is upgraded, but if it has a warranty they will honor I'm not too worried.
JWaldz
Moderator
On the topic of steering racks, have you heard of a site called RackDoctor? Supposedly they rebuild OEM racks. I'm not 100% certain but it's maybe worth a phone call at least? If you had a spare oem rack you could probably have it sent to them to be rebuilt. Probably a sure way of knowing you're getting an OEM rack back unless they guarantee they only work on OEM racks.
Toyota 4 Runner Rack And Pinion
Toyota 4 Runner Rack And Pinion
Kraze
New member
How much did the Safari rack run you? There's no price on their website, but I am in desperate need of a new rack and was unaware there was a better than OEM option until now.
jason in tn
New member
Glad to hear your staying IFS at least for the time being. Just throwing this out there you may have already checked/fixed it or it may be unrelated, but I just read a few things about one of the steering shaft slip joints getting slack in them and needing to be roll pined or tack welded. I know mine is still making a little noise in the front after I replaced everything including the guide bushings, so I think this might be the problem on mine.
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