Is it just me or do Limiteds (and Nightshades) have some sort of stigma about them?

[Humble Leader]

I geeked out searching Chevy Express the other day on CarGurus, and found the following:

- Most AWD vans were 1500’s.
- No diesels were AWD.
- A handful, and I mean almost none, of the 2500’s squeaked by and got AWD, but again, none were diesels.

This leaves us to extensive work needing to be done in each case of finding 1500/AWD (diesel swap), 2500/AWD (diesel swap, but easier?), 2500/Diesel (AWD swap).

Which of these would be most plausible, given parts availability / cost?


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maybe it's a regional difference. I know in Canada you can get 2500 and 3500 in the v8 and turbo diesel with rear locker. I checked this on the chevy website and still seems to be true. this could also be somewhat new and if you were looking at used vehicles you might not find any. I just priced out a well equipped v8 and it came to about 40k USD

You spend any time in /r/vandwellers? Some great stuff there! I love checking out all the builds!

no I haven't but I did some googling when I saw that one on home depot. I think it could be a great option for some people

 

[Bmnorm2]

I'd also like to point out the "soccer mom" trope is really played out and I'm tired of it.

Consider the alternatives... a mom who's drugged out and can't take you to soccer or a mom who's too busy with her career to to take you?

I love my soccer mom! (I'm 33 now... but my mom took me to 99% of my extra curricular activities as a kid and that's a blessing)

 

[Humble Leader]

I'd also like to point out the "soccer mom" trope is really played out and I'm tired of it.

Consider the alternatives... a mom who's drugged out and can't take you to soccer or a mom who's too busy with her career to to take you?

I love my soccer mom! (I'm 33 now... but my mom took me to 99% of my extra curricular activities as a kid and that's a blessing)

it's true that half the battle is just showing up. it has an impact. I played a lot of hockey as a kid. my father traveled regularly for work but 19 out of 20 of my games he was there no matter what. he somehow managed to make it work and even managed to be a coach a couple years.

I feel like he was in a work mindset when he would watch me because in the car on the way home we'd have what felt like business meetings about the game I just played and how to do better hahaha

 

[SurferUK]

I'd also like to point out the "soccer mom" trope is really played out and I'm tired of it.

Consider the alternatives... a mom who's drugged out and can't take you to soccer or a mom who's too busy with her career to to take you?

I love my soccer mom! (I'm 33 now... but my mom took me to 99% of my extra curricular activities as a kid and that's a blessing)

Well said

 

[Pedro367]

I'd also like to point out the "soccer mom" trope is really played out and I'm tired of it.

Consider the alternatives... a mom who's drugged out and can't take you to soccer or a mom who's too busy with her career to to take you?

I love my soccer mom! (I'm 33 now... but my mom took me to 99% of my extra curricular activities as a kid and that's a blessing)

Let's be honest. It's 2022 now. The term really should be Soccer They/Them. Can't assume anything.

So, the 4R Limited is actually a Soccer They/Them car.

 

[Bmnorm2]

Let's be honest. It's 2022 now. The term really should be Soccer They/Them. Can't assume anything.

So, the 4R Limited is actually a Soccer They/Them car.

Well played.

 

[aztec45]

I have a question. I got a 2015 limited in January. Does it have 4wd all the time?

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[2021nightshade4x4]

I have a question. I got a 2015 limited in January. Does it have 4wd all the time?

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Yes. Should have setting H4F which is:

H - IGH range
4 - wheel drive
F - ull Time


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[aggrobot]

I have a question. I got a 2015 limited in January. Does it have 4wd all the time?

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Assuming you have the 4WD and not the RWD version, your ‘15 has full-time AWD. Its a feature unique to the limited.

 

[aztec45]

Yes. Should have setting H4F which is:

H - IGH range
4 - wheel drive
F - ull Time


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Don't think i have those. I think I only have rwd..

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[aztec45]

Assuming you have the 4WD and not the RWD version, your ‘15 has full-time AWD. Its a feature unique to the limited.

Yeah I think I have rwd. But how would I know if it has 4wd all the time?

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[aztec45]

Assuming you have the 4WD and not the RWD version, your ‘15 has full-time AWD. Its a feature unique to the limited.

Re read your answer. Got it now lol thanks!!

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[Humble Leader]

Yeah I think I have rwd. But how would I know if it has 4wd all the time?

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limited is the only trim that has full time AWD. you also have true 4x4 mode in all trims by locking the centre diff. look at your centre consol. you will see a turn knob that says H4F, H4L L4L. H4F is the AWD mode with most power going to the rear until slippage is detected (I think it's 80/20 or 60/40 I don't remember the exact figure). H4L and L4L are true 4WD modes and you don't engage those all the time

 

[Captain Spalding]

Toyota really confused the issue when they started referring to any non-2WD vehicle as AWD. The Limited’s full-time 4WD (H4F) is real 4WD, whether the center diff is locked or not. The AWD mode you are describing, with the torque vectoring, applies to less capable vehicles like the RAV4.

 

[Lexington]

I have a question. I got a 2015 limited in January. Does it have 4wd all the time?

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Yes it should be full-time 4WD.

I don’t own a limited but from looking at the manual you should have 3 control settings.

H4F - High gear 4WD Free (Unlocked differentials)
H4L - High 4WD Lock (differentials)
L4L - Low gear 4WD Locked (differentials)

Keep in mind that you should only use the H4L & L4L gears for off-road or fully snow cover roads only. Driving and turning in these gears on paved roads can potentially bind your gears and cause damage.

A lot of people get confused between full-time 4WD and AWD. I had to do some research myself t figure out the difference but here are the difference.

On the base level the full-time 4WD and AWD generally work the same in that that power is provided to all wheels but the computer automatically adjust power to the front and rear axles where it’s needed for optimal traction. The difference with full-time 4WD is that they usually have a option for off-road low gears and or the option to lock the differentials where AWD do not.

Here are some good links.
http://www.toyotaia.com/intranet/misc/4wd%20simplified%20one%20page.pdf
Full Time 4WD vs AWD

 

[stiles_s]

Those links are misleading. They apply to the gen4 4Runner.

In gen5 there is a big difference between limited and other. Limits uses a torsen mechanical center diff for full time awd/4wd. Think Audi’s longitudinal setup. You can lock it and also lock low range. But, in normal driving it is a 40/60 torque split front and rear.

Non limited are 2wd in normal operation and street driving and a manual transfer case to shift into 4wd and 4wd lo. These are meant for only loose surfaces.

Hope that helps.


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[Captain Spalding]

In gen5 there is a big difference between limited and other. Limits uses a torsen mechanical center diff for full time awd/4wd. Think Audi’s longitudinal setup. You can lock it and also lock low range. But, in normal driving it is a 40/60 torque split front and rear.

Can you flesh that out a little more please? My understanding of Torsen diffs is that they are normally open but will automatically lock up when a difference in the rotation speed of the two output shafts rises above a certain threshold. And in the case of the Limited’s center diff it can be proactively locked by the driver as well. I thought systems with torque split relied on viscous couplings or clutch packs rather than an actual differential. Maybe I’m wrong …

 

[stiles_s]

Can you flesh that out a little more please? My understanding of Torsen diffs is that they are normally open but will automatically lock up when a difference in the rotation speed of the two output shafts rises above a certain threshold. And in the case of the Limited’s center diff it can be proactively locked by the driver as well. I thought systems with torque split relied on viscous couplings or clutch packs rather than an actual differential. Maybe I’m wrong …

Torsen == ‘torque sensing’. Zero computer. Always applying torque to the wheels (axles) that can handle the torque and immediately biasing (iirc can go 0:100 to 100:0) when it senses slip (or not able to apply the torque). The ‘rest’ state is 40 front 60 rear giving a bit of a rear biased feel.

Viscous couplings are a different animal. Our Macan has a viscous transfer case with computer control. As a comparison my recently sold sq5 on the same platform (as the Macan) had a torsen as longitudinal-layout Audis do. The torsen setups excel at brain dead always-on traction in any condition. By comparison you can feel our macan’s rear tires slip before it shuffles power forward. Macan is more fun but torsen more confidence inspiring in gnarly weather/condition.

Hope that helps.

Torsen Differential, How it works ? - YouTube
Torsen Limited Slip Differential - Explained - YouTube

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[Captain Spalding]

The ‘rest’ state is 40 front 60 rear giving a bit of a rear biased feel.

Thanks very much for your reply. I found both of those videos enlightening. But they don’t mention a torque split. That’s the part I don’t understand. If you don’t mind, could you go a little further? I know it’s technical and complicated and will take time to explain, so don’t feel obligated. Please also explain what it means to have an asymmetric rest state. If the vehicle is traveling in a straight line, and both drive shafts and all 4 axles are rotating at the same speed, are we not calling that the rest state? Why would torque be unequally distributed front-and-rear or side to side?

 

[stiles_s]

I think I misspoke with "rest state"; it's more about "as torque is being applied". I went digging on the web and found a bit more.

A quote from the Torsen wiki: The planetary gearset allows a Torsen III center differential to distribute torque unevenly between front and rear axles during normal (full traction) operation without inducing wind-up in the drivetrain. This feature is independent of the torque bias ratio.

We have a torsen type 3 in the '10+ 4R Limiteds. The way I understand it is by default -- without slip -- our torsen delivers 40% of the torque to the front axle and 60% to the rear. Here's the wiki: Torsen - Wikipedia

I've owned quite a few Torsen equipped cars. '98 audi A4, '00 Audi S4, '01 S4 Avant, '05 S4 v8 Avant, '10 Audi Q5, '16 Audi SQ5, '07 Lexus GX470. Oh yeah and I think our '00 Miata ha a torsen rear diff. Point I'm making is that I did a decent bit of track driving back in the day and there was a very different feel in the AWD in our A4 VS S4s -- this is when Audi moved from the Gen2 50:50 to Gen3 40:60 Torsens.

Long story short super durable center diff that does a great job finding grip in any situation. They do have some challenges when one end is on ice and can apply zero torque (don't ask me...), but our locker takes care of that.