Do you have a 4runner and you want more power.... Get one!
Magnuson Supercharger for 2010-Present & 2010-2014 FJ
- Thread starter THESS
- Start date
Do you have a 4runner and you want more power.... Get one!
Havik
New member
I totally agree with what you are saying, dyno numbers are only worthwhile for the same car on the same dyno with similar weather (temp, humidity, etc.) with before and after results. That is so you can compare the delta. The truth is looking at someone else's "after" dyno doesn't really tell you anything.
Looking at that graph, one does have to wonder why there is so much variation in just a few minutes. Did this include tuning between runs? The total difference between run 2 and run 6 are +47.07 HP and -33.3 lbs/ft. If there was tuning involved, I think I would want to go back to the tune that was on during run 4. There you are looking at a difference of +52.45 HP and -26.25 lbs/ft.
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Jeremy556
New member
Look at the chart. Run 6 was some kind of error and abruptly stopped at 4500rpm, which is why the very low HP number. If you look at the timestamps, run 6 was actually the 1st run
Havik
New member
Run 6 was the last run actually according to the time stamp. Run 2 was at 10:22 AM and run 6 was at 10:53 AM. I can't really tell the graphs lines apart from this picture so I'm not sure which run had the weird loop in it.
BTW, they aren't in order. You have to look at the file name.
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grumpy514
New member
I wonder how reliable these engines will be if they are supercharged earlier on. I'm looking at possibly getting one for my 2014 4Runner. Currently has 50k miles on mine, I noticed there is another SC kit available with more hp/tq but that looks much more invasive. Replacing the fuel rail, fuel pump and possibly a stand alone ECU.
Havik
New member
Fuel pump and injectors are normally pretty standard stuff with an aftermarket supercharger setup. I wouldn't go with a stand-alone ECU though. If smog isn't a concern, I would go with the twin screw setup from URD. If smog is a concern, nothing beats the Maggie!
grumpy514
New member
What exactly is included with the Magnuson kit? Is a fuel pump upgrade required? I'm guessing it comes with the intake manifold/fuel rail and injectors.
What are the average gains to the wheel with this kit?
I noticed the URD kit states
"Advanced engine management using UCON Flex self tuning engine management system" Is this a piggyback system or a replacement of the PCM?
Why did you mention SMOG? What about the URD kit will give you issues with passing SMOG?
Havik
New member
The Magnuson kit doesn't come with any fuel replacements. You use the stock pump, injectors, rails.
No Idea. I haven't dyno'd mine so you would have to ask around.
I don't know what the URD kit comes with specifically, I would ask them for specifics.
The URD kit is not California Smog legal. The Magnuson kit is. Hence, if you are in California you wouldn't have to worry about smog checks. The Magnuson kit has an EO number (CA smog legal number).
grumpy514
New member
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I will have to do quite a bit more research before I bite the bullet. I have VA state emissions here but they are not nearly as tight as SMOG from CA. For the money it sounds like you get a hell of a lot more in the URD kit but also appears to be much more invasive when it comes to installing it. I have access to a lift so that's not such a big deal I suppose.
Thanks again!
Havik
New member
You're welcome. If your state will allow the URD blower, you should really research that one as it is a better all around setup. The blower itself is a twin screw, not roots like the Maggie, which is a better more efficient setup. But, like you said, the URD setup is more complicated... to install, troubleshooting, etc. If you want the most power for your money, go with URD. If you want a ton of power and easy installation and less complications, go Magnuson.
I have no complaints with the Magnuson, it made my extremely heavy truck with 35" tires feel even better/faster that stock. This is what I was looking for, something to give back what all the weight and tire size robbed from the stock power, acceleration, climbing ability, etc. and the Maggie did that and then some. So I'm not bashing it at all, in fact I'm truly happy with it.
I've had my kit installed for a couple months now. Overall very happy with the large bump in power. It is significant but also won't quite take your breath away. There are a couple of downsides that bug me, one is likely fixable, the other not. When accelerating really hard from a stop, it is fairly easy to have the ECU react to exceeding a transmission torque limit and cut power. It is quite dramatic. It feels like the throttle get simply disconnected from the pedal. You drop to very low power output for a significant period of time. No, "drag racing" type activities are not the norm for me nor why I bought the kit. That said, I had no idea this could be an outcome of the kit. It is surprising that the protection of the transmission seems so conservative. AFAIK, there is no easy (or probably safe/advisable) fix for this.
Secondly, in hotter temps (San Diego, inland So Cal) and typically when stuck in stop and go traffic, I experience a rough and slightly wandering idle. Magnusson said to take it to the shop that did the install for some "logging". I need to have my mechanic get some dialog going with a Magnuson tech.
Anyone else experience and/or resolve either of these issues?
Last but not least, support has been unacceptably slow from Magnuson. Apparently they only guy doing this kind of post sales support left (or was let go). They kept corresponding only by email (would not return calls), passing the buck to another person and asking for the same information over and over. Not at all what I expect for a purchase at this price level.
Secondly, in hotter temps (San Diego, inland So Cal) and typically when stuck in stop and go traffic, I experience a rough and slightly wandering idle. Magnusson said to take it to the shop that did the install for some "logging". I need to have my mechanic get some dialog going with a Magnuson tech.
Anyone else experience and/or resolve either of these issues?
Last but not least, support has been unacceptably slow from Magnuson. Apparently they only guy doing this kind of post sales support left (or was let go). They kept corresponding only by email (would not return calls), passing the buck to another person and asking for the same information over and over. Not at all what I expect for a purchase at this price level.
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Argyle Edison
Member
I don’t know about the other issues, but your first one sounds like you just need to turn the nannies off prior to driving wot. My tundra will do that a lot of I don’t turn off the nannies (which I do every time I drive it).
Zeusmotorworks
New member
...but is it just the traction control?
Havik
New member
I have the same first issue but haven't experienced the heat issue. I just don't drive it enough, especially in traffic to have noticed so I'm not saying I don't have that issue, I just haven't noticed it yet.
I also have a had horrible support experience with Magnuson. My truck wouldn't take their tune. It was a LOT of back and forth with their only tech guy that did calibrations. They ended up sending 2 people to the shop where the blower was being installed and ended up adding the calibration to my ECU with their laptop. They were not able to do it with the handheld tuner (they even brought a second, brand new one, with them but that failed as well). They never gave me a reason for this inability, but they left me with no handheld tuner. Which in and of itself isn't a big deal, but I had to follow up with them multiple times before they even decided to try to look into the issue. It took months for them to get me a handheld, which I just received. In those months, I had to keep calling them to get updates/info. They basically ignored it for a long time then sent me another tuner. I haven't had a chance to try it, but they assure me it will work now. Even though they didn't know what the original issue was nor could they tell me what is different with the one they sent me, but somehow could assure me it would work. I think they just sent me another tuner without doing anything about the issue hoping to get me to stop pestering them. I will have to test it somehow (not even sure how to test and how not to mess up the tune that is currently working).
While I'm very happy with the supercharger itself, I am totally disappointed with support I have gotten from Magnuson. I'm worried that if I have any further issues, I will get the same level of horrible support.
I think Derik is the one that was let go from Magnuson. He was the one trying to solve my tuning issue and the one I was speaking with. He never got my issue resolved and I ended up working with his boss, Tim (not from me asking for escalation, it just got passed to him). Then Derik just disappeared. His email now bounces back that it is no longer a valid address. I will say that I'm not bummed out at all about his departure (if it is indeed, him who got let go) because he was a little less then helpful.
Unfortunately, nannies have nothing to do with it. I have this same issue and so does everyone else with this kit. I spoke to Magnuson about this and they told me it has to do with programming Toyota has in the ECU that they cannot modify. It is a setting that cuts torque to prolong the transmissions life and cannot be removed or removed.
Havik
New member
No, my post must have just missed your post. Magnuson told me it is a setting in the ECU that can't be modified. Unfortunately, it affects all 4Runners.
Argyle Edison
Member
Havik; Unfortunately said:Understood. Then it’s the torque management. The Tundra just started getting tuning support to remove or dial the TM back. It’s certianly been a hindrance.
I talked to Dustin @ DAP a while back about tuning. He was very optimistic about it l, but has zero time to work on it. Hopefully someone else will step up....
My 4R will remain N/a for now
rayofsi
New member
Understood. Then it’s the torque management. The Tundra just started getting tuning support to remove or dial the TM back. It’s certianly been a hindrance.
I talked to Dustin @ DAP a while back about tuning. He was very optimistic about it l, but has zero time to work on it. Hopefully someone else will step up....
My 4R will remain N/a for now
no issue with my URD kit. WOT at stop, and it goes..
wfo9
New member
The issue with first gear is torque mgt in the ECU trying to protect the drive-line for longevity it kills timing and closes the throttle when it thinks too much multiplied tq is being applied. Similar thing happens on shifts. I've only seen it in first gear.. maybe a tad in second.
I would not say it is impossible to calibrate out or dial back... but they are not going to want to remove it for obvious reasons. It should in theory keep the drive line together. It bothered me at first when I was just playing with the truck being stupid. In real driving situations it never comes up for me.
Rough idle is something I have never experienced even in 110* traffic.
I would not say it is impossible to calibrate out or dial back... but they are not going to want to remove it for obvious reasons. It should in theory keep the drive line together. It bothered me at first when I was just playing with the truck being stupid. In real driving situations it never comes up for me.
Rough idle is something I have never experienced even in 110* traffic.
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rayofsi
New member
something i've been thinking about.
URD kit has upgraded fuel pump. says not to WOT below 25% fuel due to chance of lean out conditions. Is everyone sure it isn't magnuson programming that is choking?
I would think that at WOT from a stop, there is a good chance the SC will be asking for more fuel then stock fuel pump can provide.
wfo9
New member
100% sure that is not the issue. It can be seen on logs. AF is perfect. Throttle closes timing goes to nothing. No knock....
Now can the fuel pump go lean in some scenarios... possible. But what they are experiencing is torque management.
Fuel pump changes are a double edge sword.. you often end up with pickup and cativation issues on low tank conditions. There is always give and take with each modification. Hot fuel is also a big factor. The more you pump the hotter the fuel gets. It's complicated for sure. I think a pump booster might be a smarter solution.. but not sure if the Toyota pumps run at constant voltage or not.
The engine typically has less load in lower gears BTW...Max load and fuel demands will be in 4th gear. But the driveline sees the most stress in first gear from torque multiplication.
I would guess the URD piggyback would eliminate torque management by ignoring the ECU signals. But you have to wonder how it manages shifts and protects the driveline in other scenarios. Shifts are a big deal. so hopefully they got something for that, otherwise the transmission is not going to last.
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