$#*! My Dealer Says

On a lot with no used 4x4 4Runners ::

"You don't need a 4x4 in this area because it doesn't snow." [A lie; it does snow here, albeit about 3x/year and rarely more than 4 inches.]
"But we plan to drive on the beach [30 minute drive from this dealership] and off-road [trails, fire roads, etc.]."
"Why would you want to mess up your 4Runner?"

Durr, the whole point of buying a 4x4 4Runner is to have a vehicle capable of meeting our off-road travel needs. Needless to say, we found a 4x4 in a used car lot 1.5 hours away for $6k less than the dealership's otherwise-same 2x4.
 
Me: Do you have the service history for this vehicle? Specifically, the timing belt change at 90k (the vehicle has 98k on it.)

Dealer: We have no knowledge of the timing belt. If there were any timing issues though, it wouldn't have passed inspection. That is one of our checks.

Me: I am concerned with this, because it is an interference engine.

Dealer: there is no interference from the engine. the stereo sounds crisp.
 
Me: Do you have the service history for this vehicle? Specifically, the timing belt change at 90k (the vehicle has 98k on it.)

Dealer: We have no knowledge of the timing belt. If there were any timing issues though, it wouldn't have passed inspection. That is one of our checks.

Me: I am concerned with this, because it is an interference engine.

Dealer: there is no interference from the engine. the stereo sounds crisp.

That's why the whole "certified" used program is a joke - not just Toyota - any make. The lack of mechanical knowledge from a salesman doesn't bother me as much - though his response was funny.

We bought our Camry used, when I looked at the service records in the glove box and compared it to the mileage it was within 200 miles of needing an oil change. I asked them to throw it in - they said the cars been inspected and doesn't need an oil change....I asked him to open the hood, pulled the dipstick - sure enough - dirty as dirty can be. The salesman was speechless - granted he probably didn't know - and realized it was wrong.

I bought it anyway because we got a good deal. When I complained about it on the survey afterwards I mentioned it and was contacted by the Customer Relations department. I asked if it was normal for them to certify a vehicle that needed an oil change? After some talking in circles I said the bottom line was someone either pencil whipped the paperwork which brings the integrity of the entire dealership in question, or it was certified and loaned out/used by employees. Either way, it would seem to invalidate the so called certification. I would picture a car to be certified then just sit on the lot except for test drives.

Of course they wouldn't give a straight answer and I never set foot back in there again except for warranty service on the electric door lock, which they couldn't fix after three trips. I'd never deal with them again. (Sierra Toyota, Lancaster, California).
 
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I've found that sales people are trained to ask you stuff to get you to say yes and put things in your head. They just need to get you to practice saying "YES, YES, YES"

"If i gave you the options for free, would you buy it?" (Say "YES". But that doesn't mean they will.)

"This offer is low, but if i can sell it to you at this price, will you buy it today?" (Say YES. There's no way I'm taking this offer but it's nice to hear you say yes.)

I watch this show Mad Men and I heard a great line there: The lead character (Don Draper) was trying to sell an Advertising Campaign to Conrad Hilton (hotels) and Hilton did not like it. Draper was puzzled as to why he didn't like it and Conrad said "What? Am i supposed to just say YES to everything you say?"
 
Back in '06 when I was deciding on my Highlander lease the manager came up to me as I sat with the salesman (over 4 hours by then) and asked me what it would take to get me to sign that night...I told him, "if you paraded 50 naked dancing girls in here right now I still wouldn't sign!" He walked away and never bothered the salesman or me again!

Mike :artist2:
 
Well, I had my first 'free maintenance' for my wife's V6 Rav4 that we bought back in March. I ask how much extra for synthetic since thats all I ever used in her little 2004 Corolla S that we still have which I have always changed myself for her, and also my 2004 Mazda6 which I am ready to get rid of. Neither of the vehicles have ever had any problems ever requiring to go in for warranty, although the Mazda has wheelwell rust which started forming right after 100000 miles on its own. The price was about $30 for 6.4 quarts (otherwise the difference for syn over dino), which I knew was a pretty fair price for Mobil1 so I have them put that request in for the tech. Knowing that its the Toyota dealer service department having expertise in Toyotas, I make no other requests assuming they know the car pretty well. So an hour and fifteen minutes later (after a test drive in an SR5 :) ), I get the car back. I inspect the wheels to make sure there are no scratches or scuffs from the wheel rotation and then leave. At this point I'm assuming everything is great, pretty happy with the test drive and I don't have to worry about the free maintenance becoming voided because I exceeded 5000 miles without an oil change.

I get home and check the service receipt, and it states that Mobil1 5w20 was poured into the engine. Since I don't really 'know' the Rav4's v6 yet, I check the manual to confirm the oil viscosity requirement for the motor. The manual clearly states that 5w30 is to be used, and can occasionally be substituted with 10w30 only then to be changed with 5w30 thereafter. I immediately call them up, explain what they did wrong, complain and argue a bit after they tell me its not a big deal and make them understand how inconvenienced I am that I have to bring the car in again to have the oil changed again on my Saturday. The service clerk on the phone understands and says that they will pick up the cost of the upgraded synthetic...so fine. I go back at the end of their Sat workday and get oil changed (just a drain/refill which I was fine with) in about 15 minutes, also get refunded the cost of the Mobil1.

Initially I thought it was a classic scenario where the dealer service dept knowingly performs the wrong type of work to waste excessive time of the customer and intentionally screw up a new vehicle, but in the end after talking with a couple of the auto techs in the lobby, it was a mistake. I'm still having a hard time understanding how a Certified Toyota auto technician can put the wrong oil into an engine which has '5w30' spelled on the oil cap, but I guess everyone has bad days occasionally. They were just so relaxed about the whole mistake their team made. Is it just me or the fact that I haven't had to deal with having a car serviced by someone else in about 6-7 years now?? In the end, I know the engine probably would have been fine with 5w20 oil in our Fall temperatures, but if it were to have critically failed, an oil trace analysis would reveal the wrong spec oil, which the manufacturer would have blamed on me for having in engine. BTW, the 'free maintenance' is normally an $80 service which is nothing more than a glorified dino oil change w/ tire rotation and multiple visual inspections...only reason I'm using it is because its documentation for the warranty if it ever needs to be utilized.
 
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Well, I had my first 'free maintenance' for my wife's V6 Rav4 that we bought back in March. I ask how much extra for synthetic since thats all I ever used in her little 2004 Corolla S that we still have which I have always changed myself for her, and also my 2004 Mazda6 which I am ready to get rid of. Neither of the vehicles have ever had any problems ever requiring to go in for warranty, although the Mazda has wheelwell rust which started forming right after 100000 miles on its own. The price was about $30 for 6.4 quarts (otherwise the difference for syn over dino), which I knew was a pretty fair price for Mobil1 so I have them put that request in for the tech. Knowing that its the Toyota dealer service department having expertise in Toyotas, I make no other requests assuming they know the car pretty well. So an hour and fifteen minutes later (after a test drive in an SR5 :) ), I get the car back. I inspect the wheels to make sure there are no scratches or scuffs from the wheel rotation and then leave. At this point I'm assuming everything is great, pretty happy with the test drive and I don't have to worry about the free maintenance becoming voided because I exceeded 5000 miles without an oil change.

I get home and check the service receipt, and it states that Mobil1 5w20 was poured into the engine. Since I don't really 'know' the Rav4's v6 yet, I check the manual to confirm the oil viscosity requirement for the motor. The manual clearly states that 5w30 is to be used, and can occasionally be substituted with 10w30 only then to be changed with 5w30 thereafter. I immediately call them up, explain what they did wrong, complain and argue a bit after they tell me its not a big deal and make them understand how inconvenienced I am that I have to bring the car in again to have the oil changed again on my Saturday. The service clerk on the phone understands and says that they will pick up the cost of the upgraded synthetic...so fine. I go back at the end of their Sat workday and get oil changed (just a drain/refill which I was fine with) in about 15 minutes, also get refunded the cost of the Mobil1.

Initially I thought it was a classic scenario where the dealer service dept knowingly performs the wrong type of work to waste excessive time of the customer and intentionally screw up a new vehicle, but in the end after talking with a couple of the auto techs in the lobby, it was a mistake. I'm still having a hard time understanding how a Certified Toyota auto technician can put the wrong oil into an engine which has '5w30' spelled on the oil cap, but I guess everyone has bad days occasionally. They were just so relaxed about the whole mistake their team made. Is it just me or the fact that I haven't had to deal with having a car serviced by someone else in about 6-7 years now?? In the end, I know the engine probably would have been fine with 5w20 oil in our Fall temperatures, but if it were to have critically failed, an oil trace analysis would reveal the wrong spec oil, which the manufacturer would have blamed on me for having in engine. BTW, the 'free maintenance' is normally an $80 service which is nothing more than a glorified dino oil change w/ tire rotation and multiple visual inspections...only reason I'm using it is because its documentation for the warranty if it ever needs to be utilized.

Essentially, they put in the wrong oil.
 
I've been lurking around here for a while because I'm set on purchasing a 4runner Trail sometime next year when I move back stateside.

After hearing some of these stories I'm pretty disappointed so I'm glad I'm not going direct through a dealer. I'll either purchase through my bank brand new or CarMax and get a fairly new one.

My bank (USAA) has a special car-buying program called AutoCircle where you price out the vehicle you want, skip the dealer haggle, and the bank does all the handy work for you at a price that's in writing before you put one foot on the dealership lot to pick it up. Here's what they estimate my 2010 Trail with KDSS and Nav, etc. in Salsa Red to be:


Pricing for Your Requested Vehicle
Invoice: $34,428 + $3,762 = $38,190
MSRP: $36,505 + $4,763 = $41,268
USAA Price: $32,928 + $3,762 = $36,690 ($4,578 off MSRP)

Some of those prices are a little skewed but you get the idea...great savings and none of that "Toyota Advertising fee" crap. You gotta be in the military to get with USAA though: )
 
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I've been lurking around here for a while because I'm set on purchasing a 4runner Trail sometime next year when I move back stateside.

After hearing some of these stories I'm pretty disappointed so I'm glad I'm not going direct through a dealer. I'll either purchase through my bank brand new or CarMax and get a fairly new one.

My bank (USAA) has a special car-buying program called AutoCircle where you price out the vehicle you want, skip the dealer haggle, and the bank does all the handy work for you at a price that's in writing before you put one foot on the dealership lot to pick it up. Here's what they estimate my 2010 Trail with KDSS and Nav, etc. in Salsa Red to be:


Pricing for Your Requested Vehicle
Invoice: $34,428 + $3,762 = $38,190
MSRP: $36,505 + $4,763 = $41,268
USAA Price: $32,928 + $3,762 = $36,690 ($4,578 off MSRP)

Some of those prices are a little skewed but you get the idea...great savings and none of that "Toyota Advertising fee" crap. You gotta be in the military to get with USAA though: )

You might as well get the 2011 TE. The baseline pricing is wrong and they are aware of it and working on a fix; but I spoke with USAA and they said you can still price out the TE model. The amount off invoice remains the same irregardless.

Soo, a 2011 T4R TE is still +$250 over invoice. My only problem is all the participating dealers are out of state (+40 miles). Not terrible, but I'm trying to get a local dealer to match their quote. Without much success..

Oh and USAA invoice pricing when possible includes dealer advertising fees.
 

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You might as well get the 2011 TE. The baseline pricing is wrong and they are aware of it and working on a fix; but I spoke with USAA and they said you can still price out the TE model. The amount off invoice remains the same irregardless.

Soo, a 2011 T4R TE is still +$250 over invoice. My only problem is all the participating dealers are out of state (+40 miles). Not terrible, but I'm trying to get a local dealer to match their quote. Without much success..

Oh and USAA invoice pricing when possible includes dealer advertising fees.

I was wondering why the prices were off so much! Includes dealer fees too? Damn...at least it's still not a bad deal. : )
 
That "should" include the dealer advertising fee, but not the documentation fees. Either way it is a great price, especially to not have to deal with a salesperson. To me...that's worth a whole heck of a lot!
 
Well, I had my first 'free maintenance' for my wife's V6 Rav4 that we bought back in March. I ask how much extra for synthetic since thats all I ever used in her little 2004 Corolla S that we still have which I have always changed myself for her, and also my 2004 Mazda6 which I am ready to get rid of. Neither of the vehicles have ever had any problems ever requiring to go in for warranty, although the Mazda has wheelwell rust which started forming right after 100000 miles on its own. The price was about $30 for 6.4 quarts (otherwise the difference for syn over dino), which I knew was a pretty fair price for Mobil1 so I have them put that request in for the tech. Knowing that its the Toyota dealer service department having expertise in Toyotas, I make no other requests assuming they know the car pretty well. So an hour and fifteen minutes later (after a test drive in an SR5 :) ), I get the car back. I inspect the wheels to make sure there are no scratches or scuffs from the wheel rotation and then leave. At this point I'm assuming everything is great, pretty happy with the test drive and I don't have to worry about the free maintenance becoming voided because I exceeded 5000 miles without an oil change.

I get home and check the service receipt, and it states that Mobil1 5w20 was poured into the engine. Since I don't really 'know' the Rav4's v6 yet, I check the manual to confirm the oil viscosity requirement for the motor. The manual clearly states that 5w30 is to be used, and can occasionally be substituted with 10w30 only then to be changed with 5w30 thereafter. I immediately call them up, explain what they did wrong, complain and argue a bit after they tell me its not a big deal and make them understand how inconvenienced I am that I have to bring the car in again to have the oil changed again on my Saturday. The service clerk on the phone understands and says that they will pick up the cost of the upgraded synthetic...so fine. I go back at the end of their Sat workday and get oil changed (just a drain/refill which I was fine with) in about 15 minutes, also get refunded the cost of the Mobil1.

Initially I thought it was a classic scenario where the dealer service dept knowingly performs the wrong type of work to waste excessive time of the customer and intentionally screw up a new vehicle, but in the end after talking with a couple of the auto techs in the lobby, it was a mistake. I'm still having a hard time understanding how a Certified Toyota auto technician can put the wrong oil into an engine which has '5w30' spelled on the oil cap, but I guess everyone has bad days occasionally. They were just so relaxed about the whole mistake their team made. Is it just me or the fact that I haven't had to deal with having a car serviced by someone else in about 6-7 years now?? In the end, I know the engine probably would have been fine with 5w20 oil in our Fall temperatures, but if it were to have critically failed, an oil trace analysis would reveal the wrong spec oil, which the manufacturer would have blamed on me for having in engine. BTW, the 'free maintenance' is normally an $80 service which is nothing more than a glorified dino oil change w/ tire rotation and multiple visual inspections...only reason I'm using it is because its documentation for the warranty if it ever needs to be utilized.

I've had this happen as well, but it was at a honda dealership. The local Acura dealership could never do 'no appointment' oil changes so I went to the honda dealership down the street who could (same owner even). I went there 2 times with my RSX-S and both times the put the wrong viscosity oil in the car. One of their excuses was that they probably did put the right oil in, but just put the wrong information on the invoice. I asked for it to be changed anyhow and they 'supposedly' put new oil in, but in reality you never know if they just drive it around back, let it sit for 10 minutes and bring it back having done nothing.

Rob
 
Without rambling too much more about it, when we went back, my wife knew one of the service techs sitting in the customer lobby through her workplace and he was the one who personally took care of it the 2nd time, so I trust it was done properly, otherwise I was going to watch from the customer drop off area.

What he said probably happen though was that the service tech (who was not him) who worked on our car used the Mobil1 pump, which is only stocked with a barrel of either 0w20 or 5w20 at any time. They never pump Mobil1 5w30, and have to use containers of it from the parts department. Next time I'll just take in 6.5 quarts from Walmart and ask them to use that.
 
Went to a few dealers to test drive some 'SUV's' on Saturday. Ended up at a Nissan dealer and jumped in a Pathfinder (wow, talk about ugly and cheap inside!), 1/2 way through the test drive she takes a corner and I swear it is in 4WD, checked the 'dial', showed 2H, thought I must be imagining it. It was cold so turn on the heat, NO heat, engine temp mid way up, freezing air coming out. Then I look at the dash 4WD light is ON along with some engine check gauge.

The rep in the back seat suddenly says, "oh, this car has not been prep'ed". Since when does a new car need to be prep'ed to to have the heat work, engine code cleared, and the system unlock from 4wd?!?!

Now, I will say, the rep was one of the nicest and easiest reps I have ever dealt with. No pressure, joked around, never even asked for our phone number or tired to get us to sit down.

After looking at about 7 different models I think we are going to go with a little Ford Escape SLT with the sport package.

silver-sport01.jpg~original


It really sets it apart from the others. Anyway, I just laughed to myself about the whole 'not prep'ed' thing (unless it is true, but I have never heard or that before!)
 
After looking at about 7 different models I think we are going to go with a little Ford Escape SLT with the sport package.

silver-sport01.jpg~original

My wife had an 04 Escape Sport 4x4 . She loved it , but then traded it for a Rav4 2011 4x4. She feels she would rather have bought a new Escape . The Rav is much more solid and quieter than her Escape was form day 1 , but she likes the 4wd system better on the Escape and like the stiffer ride and that it sits up higher. She does not hate the Rav , but just relaying her thoughts.
 
I had 2008 Escape Limited - it's very nice little truck, 4WD worked well for fire roads and winter driving. Still missing some nice features I don't have in 4Runner now.
My major complains is that trunk is very small and that '08 Escape didn't have locked 4x4 mode. And I had a feeling that it would need quite a few trips to mechanic after 60,000 miles.
 
Me-"so my truck is coming up on 30,000 miles which iridiums would you recommend? NGK or Denzo?"
Toyota Tech- "iridiums are bad they would make your engine go boom."
Me- "Then why do you install them on the 1GRFE with the TRD supercharger?"
Toyota Tech- "We don't install them."

I've been using twin tip iridiums for almost 40,000 miles with no problems just so you know. Really the only reason I go to the dealer is just for state inspection and even then I get to see how clueless they are as well as grips for using performance parts.
 
My wife had an 04 Escape Sport 4x4 . She loved it , but then traded it for a Rav4 2011 4x4. She feels she would rather have bought a new Escape . The Rav is much more solid and quieter than her Escape was form day 1 , but she likes the 4wd system better on the Escape and like the stiffer ride and that it sits up higher. She does not hate the Rav , but just relaying her thoughts.

Actually that is very helpful! Our other friends wife just picked up a 09' Rav4 Sport (w/o the spare on the back as they have the special run flat tires) and we were starting to consider the same model, but new. My wife loves the AWD/4WD on the Escape, she does not know a lot about how the 4wd systems work so it 'idiot proof' (not that I am calling her an idiot :)) The Escape is really the only small SUV that has decent room in the cargo area. Most we looked at all have the sleek sloped tailgates which kill the vertical cargo capacity. Some 'kid' whipped lanes the other day on the highway, put her to the side in the snow and dirt, little Escape (07') stayed straight as an arrow. Not the prettiest SUV but has been very safe!
 

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