4RunnerTina
New member
Yea the gearing on the 4runner is Sh..T! I have found my truck either gear hunting or at least stuck in a gear way too long when going up simple passes.
Toyota's shift logic engineer should be shot
- Thread starter Charles Bronson
- Start date
3kushn
Member
Yes I get that but the Limited doesn't come with other settable Logic modes.
I use manual gear selection nearly daily since I'm driving down steep hills on a regular basis. Small steep gravel roads. 20 mph is speeding. Rather use my trans than brakes. 1st gear is my friend. Guys following me I'm sure are wondering...WTF? Is his brake lights out in that brand new truck??!!
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Whippersnapper02
Senior Member
There's no shift logic choice in any 5th gen 4runner.
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TrailRunnin14
New member
My '15 does the same and requires babysitting as OP said. Most posts I have seen about the FJ indicate it exhibits similar behaviour.
Since shifting causes lots of wear, I just put mine in S4 and wait for the top of the hill.
I hear that installing the supercharger gets rid of this issue.
Some sort of aftermarket programming change may work as well, but I am planning on staying stock so haven't explored that option.
I know it’s not an option for everyone but with a supercharger the transmission never unlocks out of 5th. It’s so much more enjoyable to drive. Last summer we drove down to the Smokies and the 4Runner always stayed in 5th, no matter the size of the grade. I’ve driven the same path with no supercharger and it constantly hunts between 4th and 5th. I used to just leave it in 4th on grades to avoid all of that. Before the 4Runner I had a first gen Tacoma and it did the same thing. Then I would just lock or unlock overdrive. It’s just something I had become used to driving a Toyota.
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2021TrailAG
New member
I had a Tacoma for a very short time (a week) and talk about bad shift programming. It was horrible. I actually returned the truck to the dealer from fear of living with it.
The 4runner has been actually great for an automatic SUV. If I know I'll be driving up some hills or twisty sections, I just throw it in S4. Feels great and never lacking for power then. Of course I'm not at any serious elevation. but even without shifting it just going a little deeper into the go pedal lets her shift down and it wont go back up until letting off.
I will say the cruise control is a bit weird with shifting and such. The worst thing I've found is going slightly down hill with cruise on it will try its hardest to to reduce your speed rather than let you roll a bit.
The 4runner has been actually great for an automatic SUV. If I know I'll be driving up some hills or twisty sections, I just throw it in S4. Feels great and never lacking for power then. Of course I'm not at any serious elevation. but even without shifting it just going a little deeper into the go pedal lets her shift down and it wont go back up until letting off.
I will say the cruise control is a bit weird with shifting and such. The worst thing I've found is going slightly down hill with cruise on it will try its hardest to to reduce your speed rather than let you roll a bit.
I get what you're saying, OP, but it's really not that bad.
I live at 5000 feet and play in the mountains almost weekly, so I go up to 11,000+ feet with long, steep grades. I lock fifth out suing S mode and it's fine. Slow, but fine in terms of shifting.
As a matter of fact, I like that it sticks in 4th too long wen driving in regular mode. Where I drive, climbs are followed by descents and remaining in 4th going down is better than it upshifting to 5th.
Having said that, I would not mind a supercharged. Thin air and grades like that, plus all my lifts, tires, armor and gear -- let's say I'm usually in the right lane when climbing. Passing a semi is a cause to celebrate.
I live at 5000 feet and play in the mountains almost weekly, so I go up to 11,000+ feet with long, steep grades. I lock fifth out suing S mode and it's fine. Slow, but fine in terms of shifting.
As a matter of fact, I like that it sticks in 4th too long wen driving in regular mode. Where I drive, climbs are followed by descents and remaining in 4th going down is better than it upshifting to 5th.
Having said that, I would not mind a supercharged. Thin air and grades like that, plus all my lifts, tires, armor and gear -- let's say I'm usually in the right lane when climbing. Passing a semi is a cause to celebrate.
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KingPrat
New member
I find it incredible how many people don't want to engage their vehicle when they're driving. Don't be mindless and take over.
I drive north through the Adirondacks fairly frequently and, yes - In cruise control there is a bit of gear searching. Cancel cruise, use your foot, and work the transmission/rpm to sit where you want it.
We drive a vehicle with the aerodynamic qualities of a brick. When it's windy, it's affected. I've never driven an SUV that wasn't affected by the wind - including the GF's CX5.
I drive north through the Adirondacks fairly frequently and, yes - In cruise control there is a bit of gear searching. Cancel cruise, use your foot, and work the transmission/rpm to sit where you want it.
We drive a vehicle with the aerodynamic qualities of a brick. When it's windy, it's affected. I've never driven an SUV that wasn't affected by the wind - including the GF's CX5.
3kushn
Member
My mistake, I was thinking there would be an MTS setting that could help but looks like this feature is only used at crawl speeds. I don't have MTS so didn't know till I looked at it closer after your comment.
Charles Bronson
Member
It's the Flint Hills. The hills themselves aren't necessarily tall (only a couple hundred feet up/down), but the hills are constant, meandering, and pretty steep (for a hill) and the highways are forced to go up and over. The grade is what I'd consider to be lower moderate when compared to grades I drive in Colorado. Also, the area is wide open prairie with no trees. The wind is always blowing hard from the north or south and typically at speeds of 10mph to 15mph constantly and 20-55mph during weather changes, which are often. It's common for semis to get blown over in the area.
Charles Bronson
Member
Update:
We drove home yesterday and the wind was blowing slightly harder out of the north; still a heavy cross/head wind (15 to 20 mph).
This time around, I turned off cruise control and drove through the hills for the hour. During the inclines, I'd squeeze the gas just enough to get the torque converter to unlock in 5th. It was plenty of extra torque multiplication to go up all but a couple of the steeper hills which required a downshift into 4th.
I completely understand that the headwind definitely isn't helping here at all and is contributing to the issue. My frustration is that Toyota's shift logic while in cruise control almost always bypasses 5th gear TC unlock goes directly for the downshift. Why? It seems so simple a fix on their end. There are all sorts of sensors and vacuum systems that can help the ECU determine when to unlock the TC and when to downshift. Clearly the ECU has no issues when the driver is in full control and everything operates the way it should for a 2020 year vehicle.
I knew of the complaints of gear hunting with 4runners/Tacoma, but my God, I had no idea it was this bad. I rented tons of cars, trucks, and SUVs because of my job. I've rented and drove all across this country. I've never driven a vehicle with such poor shift logic.
This gear hunting issue is only compounded by the TRD Pro exhaust my wife really wanted. The downshift into 4th puts the exhaust right in the drone range of 3,000rpms under load. I wasn't for the exhaust because of my prior experience with exhausts on V6s and long geared automatics but it's her truck. She doesn't mind the sound even when droning up the hills, but I do feel bad for my kids in the back seat. I keep the stock exhaust boxed up in the basement with hopes she'll change her mind at some point
I do have concerns about taking the 4runner across KS into CO. Lots of cross winds and elevation change (800' in Kansas City to 4,800' at the KS west border).
I love the truck, but damn, there are definitely compromises (more so than I imagined). I have a feeling I'll need to drive without cruise in these situations.
It's too bad Toyota couldn't figure out a way to fit the 6AT from the Tundra or the 8AT from the Lexus vehicles into this truck. I don't think the power is lacking. The issue is lack of gears and shift logic.
We drove home yesterday and the wind was blowing slightly harder out of the north; still a heavy cross/head wind (15 to 20 mph).
This time around, I turned off cruise control and drove through the hills for the hour. During the inclines, I'd squeeze the gas just enough to get the torque converter to unlock in 5th. It was plenty of extra torque multiplication to go up all but a couple of the steeper hills which required a downshift into 4th.
I completely understand that the headwind definitely isn't helping here at all and is contributing to the issue. My frustration is that Toyota's shift logic while in cruise control almost always bypasses 5th gear TC unlock goes directly for the downshift. Why? It seems so simple a fix on their end. There are all sorts of sensors and vacuum systems that can help the ECU determine when to unlock the TC and when to downshift. Clearly the ECU has no issues when the driver is in full control and everything operates the way it should for a 2020 year vehicle.
I knew of the complaints of gear hunting with 4runners/Tacoma, but my God, I had no idea it was this bad. I rented tons of cars, trucks, and SUVs because of my job. I've rented and drove all across this country. I've never driven a vehicle with such poor shift logic.
This gear hunting issue is only compounded by the TRD Pro exhaust my wife really wanted. The downshift into 4th puts the exhaust right in the drone range of 3,000rpms under load. I wasn't for the exhaust because of my prior experience with exhausts on V6s and long geared automatics but it's her truck. She doesn't mind the sound even when droning up the hills, but I do feel bad for my kids in the back seat. I keep the stock exhaust boxed up in the basement with hopes she'll change her mind at some point
I do have concerns about taking the 4runner across KS into CO. Lots of cross winds and elevation change (800' in Kansas City to 4,800' at the KS west border).
I love the truck, but damn, there are definitely compromises (more so than I imagined). I have a feeling I'll need to drive without cruise in these situations.
It's too bad Toyota couldn't figure out a way to fit the 6AT from the Tundra or the 8AT from the Lexus vehicles into this truck. I don't think the power is lacking. The issue is lack of gears and shift logic.
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It's a heavy, un-aerodynamic vehicle with a 4 liter V6. Regardless of the number of gears in the transmission, the transmission will always try to be in the highest gear on the highway for fuel economy. That means the RPM will be low, where the engine just isn't making enough power to handle grades, or headwinds, without downshifting to bring the RPM up to where the engine does make enough power to maintain speed.
That's why a Supercharger allows the transmission to stay in overdrive more often, despite grades, or headwinds. With the Supercharger, the engine makes enough power at low RPM to maintain speed in overdrive.
It is what it is.
That's why a Supercharger allows the transmission to stay in overdrive more often, despite grades, or headwinds. With the Supercharger, the engine makes enough power at low RPM to maintain speed in overdrive.
It is what it is.
mteolus
New member
Using your transmission as a brake going downhill actually causes your transmission to wear out faster.
Whippersnapper02
Senior Member
Oh nah. That's just volume control for the traction control. :cheers:
My problem with the shift logic is how quickly the car upshifts when getting up to speed during a highway merge. I continue to press the throttle but the 4runner just upshifts to 3rd or 4th gear, taking the engine right out of the power band. Shifting to "S" works slightly better, but the same behavior can be observed.
Charles Bronson
Member
How? The compression of the motor is doing much of the work and there's not much load on the transmission as the motor isn't creating any power (injectors are turned off under engine braking).
Engine braking is a preferred way to control downhill speed because if you ride the brakes for a long duration of time, you may be met with brake fade when you really need them.
Whippersnapper02
Senior Member
You do wear down the clutches a little more than normal. I usually blip the throttle half a second or so after downshifting so that the engine speed doesn't have to be brought up.
Charles Bronson
Member
The extra torque multiplication of additional gears would keep the motor from having to work so hard and consume fuel like it does. A well geared 6+ speed auto and direct fuel injection would improve mpgs of the 4runner 20%+ and improve acceleration as well. It would also help find a better gear ratio on inclines and keep from increasing rpms by over 1,000rpms on a single gear downshift.
Toyota is ultra conservative and runs their models into the ground before making a drivetrain change. That is especially the case with their trucks. The only thing that really keeps them in the game is their reliability, especially with the Tacoma and 4runner. It is certainly not their drivetrain performance or amenities.
I love the simplicity and reliability of the 4runner, but damn, they could have updated the drivetrain at least once between 2010 and now and made their trucks even more desirable and competitive. Everyone, and I mean everyone, updates their drivetrains every 3 to 5 years.
rightyouareken
New member
FWIW my 2nd gen Tacoma (2011) had the same issue. But if you think that's bad, throw a camping trailer behind it, LOL. Had a time going to Yellowstone with it where I was trying to maintain a reasonable speed on the highway (55-60 mph) in Montana into a stiff headwind and instead of bouncing between 4th and 5th, it was bouncing between 2nd and 3rd! The sound was horrendous and it felt like I was killing the dang thing. After that trip I traded it in on a 5.0 V8 F150 which towed light years better.
spartacus
Senior Member
Very good explanation by [MENTION=602867]Charles Bronson[/MENTION] in post #26
