westwind77
New member
LOL! Remember JED....oh ummm sorry....'DocMT'.....has been his 'signature' here for a while.
4R sales down
- Thread starter dekeman
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LOL! Remember JED....oh ummm sorry....'DocMT'.....has been his 'signature' here for a while.
Does that even matter? Most people lease vehicles for 3/36, right? So what's your point?
What did I deny?
The fact remains that the FJ frame issues are well documented and there are many documented examples of the frame issues. Show me the same of the 4th gen if you want to prove your non-existent point. I'll be waiting...
Thai
Elite Member
BlairB and bulldog (on the competing forum) just to name off the top of my head.
LOL...pour yourself another tall glass of hater-ade there, big boy.:lookout:
That's it? You got two names for me?
Oh yeah, I guess those 4th gen frames are just failing left and right. LOLOLOLOL
Now lets compare that to the FJ. Of course we have to consider the fact that the 4th gen has been around far longer and outsold it by tons, yet there are so many documented examples of frame issues on the FJ. Isn't that strange?
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Dlak
New member
Haha, "hey hunny it's ok if the car is a piece of crap it's gonna be under warranty thoughout our lease period" Yeah I'd like to see how that pans out the third time you break down in the middle of the freeway. Great point genius, along with the rest of the "points" you've been making today winner.
Antman
Elite Member
Jesus, your guys know how to multi-quote correct? What a bunch of post whores.
Hey, I found a picture of DocMT, evensteven, and T4Fun. Now don't quote me on this but I think DocMT is the one on the left.
Now THIS is funny!!!!!! Most entertaining thread in about a month! All we need now is Seattlemike to chime in and shut 'em all up.
03_4x4Runner
Senior Member
Now I am afraid to drive anywhere today. My 4th gen frame will break and the road will be clogged with broken down Jeeps. It is so depressing.
Thai
Elite Member
Again, consider the population who owns each...and consider the amount of folks who take their SUV off-road. A matter of percentages i guess. A mall crawler won't ever see the damage...but an avid off-roader may...same for the FJ crowd. (My brother's 2008 FJ is still looking good, but that is because he has not taken it off-road much.)
The fact of the matter is that Toyota reinforced the frontal aspect of the frame...the rest of the 5th gen's frame is nearly identical to the 4th gen. Isn't that strange?
KCcarguy
New member
Not sure I should justify this with a response, but here goes:
If you would take the time to read that thread, the whole point is that consumer reports doesn't consider their own reliability data (objective) when forming their assessment of a vehicle......as evidenced by the 4runner having a flawless reliability record for the last 10 years (including the 5th gen) and yet the "predicted reliability" is average.
If someone doesn't like the styling, driving dynamics, or other features of the 5th gen. that is fine, but questioning it's reliability or build-quality is ridiculous.
As far as comparing 4runner sales to those of CUV's, I really don't feel the 4runner is a direct competitor for these vehicles, so it's pointless....that's what the Highlander is for. The 4runner is a more niche-vehicle. Not everyone needs a true SUV and that's OK.]; but thank goodness Toyota still has the balls the build a vehicle for those of us that do.
JB.
New member
Even for the harshest usage, the probablility of a frame problem is small (perhaps smaller for V8). Maybe you were talking about modding it to jump sand dunes in which case I could understand opting for the improved frame. If my truck has no frame issues there is no design problem, just room for improvement for a very tiny percentage of users that even I don't fall into and presumably you wouldn't either. The way it shakes out for you, me, and just about everybody else; it's a non-issue.
Don't know about Blair but I'm pretty sure Bulldog doesn't feel like it's a flaw or defect.
The original Cherokee was quite well known for both its durability and offroad ability. And you know what? It was a unibody.
The whole "it's gotta have a frame and solid rear axle or it can't go offroad" is just silly. And wrong.
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Thai
Elite Member
ORIGINAL Cherokee. Yeah, and did it win friends with the unibody? No, it won friends thru its solid axles, trustworthy torquey easy-fix engine, lightweight, and huge aftermarket support.
Why is the Wrangler still frame? Chrysler manufactures the frame JUST for the Wrangler. I don't believe that the Wrangler's frame is shared with anything else in Chrysler lineup.
Now, is a unibody required for off-roading? No...but does it help? Oh yeah! I saw a Cherokee not able to close its doors when the unibody is flexed. How much punishment can a unibody take over time? How easy is it to fix once damaged? Will structural integrity still hold? Important questions for the off-roaders i think.
The new/current JGC is just not off-road worthy with the things i wrote about above. Jeep clearly went after the mall crawlers, which i don't blame them. That is where the market is...just look at how successful Ford is with their trillions of crossovers.
As for me, i definitely prefer 4runner over JGC for the above reasons.
KCcarguy
New member
DocMT, every thread concerning the 5th generation you talk about how much better the 4th was and how much the 5ths suck. You're always saying how great the JGC and how it's leaving the 4runner in the dust. If you like the JGC just buy one and move on......It's your money.
:redbrick:
SeattleMike
New member
You know, 3 months ago I certainly would have jumped right in. Now? My perspective has changed and it's really hard to justify arguing with pedants like Jed/DocMT or revisionists like T4Fun (at one point he/she was so hot for the 4Runner that they bought TE headlamps before they bought a 4Runner only to be stuck with them after changing their mind and buying a Lexus) who change their mind like I change my socks.Now THIS is funny!!!!!! Most entertaining thread in about a month! All we need now is Seattlemike to chime in and shut 'em all up.
Kingpin, while totally unoriginal, is at least semi-intelligent enough to make his sarcasm occasionally funny. The others are just trolls and I'm done wasting what little time I have left on them. This place has been a GREAT forum, both informational and entertaining, but these endless arguments are neither.
phillyd2
Senior Member
As one who moved from a 4th to 5th Gen I can say with confidence that neither sucks. When I first got the 5th. I too was disappointed by the same that annoyed most here (No V8. no memory seats, the antenna, etc)
After six months I honestly do not miss my 4th and when I see them driving around I feel even better about the 5th. When shopping for the 5th I did look at the Jeep and must admit they are nice. I just like the 4R better.
And I don't know where some are getting the idea that most do not go off pavement. While I don't climb rocks I do have in on dirt a decent amount of time. Its just nice to have the capability.
After six months I honestly do not miss my 4th and when I see them driving around I feel even better about the 5th. When shopping for the 5th I did look at the Jeep and must admit they are nice. I just like the 4R better.
And I don't know where some are getting the idea that most do not go off pavement. While I don't climb rocks I do have in on dirt a decent amount of time. Its just nice to have the capability.
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