E15 and 3rd gens

[Rushthezeppelin]

Nope. But the cost difference will never outweigh the decrease in milage.

Don't be tempted by the lower initial price of E15. As soon as people lose reference for what a lower ethanol concentration costs, they'll erase the cost savings and pocket the difference.

Ethanol as fuel is a corn lobbied scam built on flawed assumptions that growing corn to burn is sustainable (it's not even close).

I got to try E-free while driving across the country, and it benefit me 4 MPG. So it appears to me that for every 5% of ethanol, I lose 2 MPG.

How interesting, I saw 0 difference in milage with my limited experiment using e-free. Granted it was limited as I used it for about 4 or 5 tanks and then we had a spike in gas prices....what was your actual city/highway/combined with e-free vs e10?

 

[Pyral]

How interesting, I saw 0 difference in milage with my limited experiment using e-free. Granted it was limited as I used it for about 4 or 5 tanks and then we had a spike in gas prices....what was your actual city/highway/combined with e-free vs e10?

My experience was limited unfortunately. It was highway only, and it was 85 octane rather than the usual 87 octane. In those parts, if the gas sold isn't e-free they give you another option to buy it.

I did 2 fillups with what I assume was E-free. I say assume because it in South Dakota/Montana, and it lacked the usual warning of "contain up to 10% ethanol" that they usually have.

By the second fill up with 85 octane I got 25 MPG, normally I get 21-22 MPG in similar conditions. This is especially damning considering I got this while carrying all my stuff and a passenger up steep hills.

In fairness to E10, I've gotten 30 MPG using the stuff in similar driving. But that was once in 2021, and I haven't had that happen since.

 

[JoeT4R]

In my experience the E15 stuff not only decreased mileage but it also made my truck feel slow and sluggish at lower speeds. Not quite sure if that was real or if it was just placebo.

Non-ethanol gas is great and best for our trucks, there's no question about it. Problem is, it's not as widely available as your standard E10 gas. And when it is available, you will pay a premium in terms of cost. Which is fine with me.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 

[brillo_76]

This is because these engines are tuned to run normal gasoline. It's just how it is. It runs the other fuel you just notice things..

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[Pyral]

In my experience the E15 stuff not only decreased mileage but it also made my truck feel slow and sluggish at lower speeds. Not quite sure if that was real or if it was just placebo.

Makes sense. When you run E85, one mod that needs to be done is fitting larger injectors. Because the fuel is diluted, you need more of it to make more power.

So our injectors cant spray enough fuel in the cylinders for there not to be a power loss. E15 is above the max dilution the fuel system was designed to handle.

When you buy E15 is the octane higher? If 10% ethanol is enough to get petroleum to 87 octane, then a higher dilution should be above that.

Looked it up, E15 is 88 octane. Rather suspicious considering it took just 10% to raise the octane rating by ~1 7(unrefined gasoline starts at 70). I'd expect E15 to have a higher rating.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Makes sense. When you run E85, one mod that needs to be done is fitting larger injectors. Because the fuel is diluted, you need more of it to make more power.

So our injectors cant spray enough fuel in the cylinders for there not to be a power loss. E15 is above the max dilution the fuel system was designed to handle.

When you buy E15 is the octane higher? If 10% ethanol is enough to get petroleum to 87 octane, then a higher dilution should be above that.

Looked it up, E15 is 88 octane. Rather suspicious considering it took just 10% to raise the octane rating by ~1 7(unrefined gasoline starts at 70). I'd expect E15 to have a higher rating.

I'd imagine it depends on the base octane of the gasoline they mix it with.

 

[phattyduck]

Makes sense. When you run E85, one mod that needs to be done is fitting larger injectors. Because the fuel is diluted, you need more of it to make more power.

Diluted is a bad word for what is happening.

Ethanol has a higher octane rating (harder to ignite / higher knock resistance), but a lower energy content per unit volume. So, you can make MORE power with it if the engine has the capability - at the cost of lower fuel economy.

It can/will cause problems with fueling on an engine not ready/capable of running it.

-Charlie

 

[Pyral]

Diluted is a bad word for what is happening.

Ethanol has a higher octane rating (harder to ignite / higher knock resistance), but a lower energy content per unit volume. So, you can make MORE power with it if the engine has the capability - at the cost of lower fuel economy.

It can/will cause problems with fueling on an engine not ready/capable of running it.

-Charlie

I use the word diluted to suggest that the ethanol is unwanted, like the water a teen puts in their fathers alcohol so they wont notice the level decrease.

I understand the purpose it serves in my fuel. But I’d much rather have MMT or BTEX used instead since they don’t decrease MPG like ethanol does.

 

[spartacus]

Driving from Denver to Wisconsin this summer, I monitored my mpgs. Filling up with ethanol free gas, there was no change in mpg. Infact my mpgs dropped in Nebraska due the lack of elevation even though the terrain was flat. I got better mpgs in Iowa although the terrain was rolling hills with E 10 ethanol gas. This was in a 5th Gen 4runner so it might not be true for the 5vzfe.

 

[brillo_76]

Driving from Denver to Wisconsin this summer, I monitored my mpgs. Filling up with ethanol free gas, there was no change in mpg. Infact my mpgs dropped in Nebraska due the lack of elevation even though the terrain was flat. I got better mpgs in Iowa although the terrain was rolling hills with E 10 ethanol gas. This was in a 5th Gen 4runner so it might not be true for the 5vzfe.

5th gen the engine can tune for ethonal. I think 4th gen can as well too.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

 

[spartacus]

5th gen the engine can tune for ethonal. I think 4th gen can as well too.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk

The 5th gen computer maintains a level of timing that eliminates knock regardless of its Ethanol OR clear gas. So it dosesnt effect mpgs, as the fuel octane rating is after blending, ethanol or not. I drive my 3rd gen all over the high country and don't notice any difference. I was really hoping to see a clear difference but I didnt. The thing I notice and enjoyed a bit was the peppiness of the engine at ground level. I also was doing 80 mph in Nebraska and 75 in Iowa give or take a couple. So my observations should be taken with healthy dose of salt.

 

[brillo_76]

The 5th gen computer maintains a level of timing that eliminates knock regardless of its Ethanol OR clear gas. So it dosesnt effect mpgs, as the fuel octane rating is after blending, ethanol or not. I drive my 3rd gen all over the high country and don't notice any difference. I was really hoping to see a clear difference but I didnt. The thing I notice and enjoyed a bit was the peppiness of the engine at ground level. I also was doing 80 mph in Nebraska and 75 in Iowa give or take a couple. So my observations should be taken with healthy dose of salt.

If you live in an area with lots of ups and downs. Your mpg will suck no matter what. I live in the foot hills of the mountains that are in the middle of the state. So my mpg is mostly 16 17 in the summer and 14 in the winter. In my 3rd gens and my 2007 and 2010 sienna vans. Are about the same with 10% or pure gasoline.

I don't run e15 at all. I do know my small engines despise the mixed fuel. They love pure gasoline as they were designed for it.

Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk