No KDSS for FJ Cruiser ?

So Koz are you saying that if sway bars are connected (on 5th Gen 4Runners)that will be the physical limiting component (the sway bar) and will be the component that stops the wheel from travelling upwards or downwards thereby determining maximum articulation? This is what you alluded to in your post and Thai too.

Yes! If the RTI score is better with KDSS then without how could the bump stop be the limiting factor? Why would anyone go through the trouble of disconnecting sway bars?

If you do not plan on modding the suspension KDSS is the best system/design available from Toyota. It provides the best of both worlds (on/off road). Maximum articulation off-road and almost no lean/plowing on road. Then when you combine this with air-springs and adaptive shocks (like on the GX460), it makes for an incredibly controlled ride. I tow a travel trailer with no sway/WD devices added and it is amazing. I just got back from an off-road trip and can tell you, this set-up works extremely well. Noticeably better then the XREAS/non KDSS system. The biggest difference was on the washboard roads at speed. I was running 35+ mph like it was a walk in the park. I was able to hold my video phone (POS SG3 lol) with one hand and buzz the washboard road with the other!

Koz
 

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IMHO, you can't argue that a sway bar provides more resistance to the independent movement of the front suspension.

Here is a thread that directly compares a intact sway bar with a disconnected one.
swaybar stats w/pix - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

Does KDSS actually allow the sway bar to move freely under articulation? If so, then i would say it increases travel. No it does not EXTEND travel any. It allows the bumpstops to be the compression limit rather than the sway bar and the coil springs.
 
It almost seems like REAL off-roaders should avoid TE and buy SR5s and Limited instead.... :D

Sorry, KDSS is good off-road and provides better real-time articulation. IT IS PROVEN WORLDWIDE. RTI shows this. Since we have so many SR5 off-roaders, we won't have a problem measuring wheel travel stroke distance. Insideline measured it.

BTW, come on guys (harper & 1engineer), you're letting a Prius owner tell you how KDSS works! :D
 
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It almost seems like REAL off-roaders should avoid TE and buy SR5s and Limited instead.... :D

Sorry, KDSS is good off-road and provides better real-time articulation. IT IS PROVEN WORLDWIDE. RTI shows this. Since we have so many SR5 off-roaders, we won't have a problem measuring wheel travel stroke distance. Insideline measured it.

BTW, come on guys (harper & 1engineer), you're letting a Prius owner tell you how KDSS works! :D

Haha we would if you could understand any of it lol. Don't you agree with my last post adressing the fire road scenario? Enjoyed the debate though! What's funny is not very many wanted to get involved in this conversation. All of you guys have a great week and don't do too much damage at the mall on Friday!
 
It almost seems like REAL off-roaders should avoid TE and buy SR5s and Limited instead.... :D

Sorry, KDSS is good off-road and provides better real-time articulation. IT IS PROVEN WORLDWIDE. RTI shows this. Since we have so many SR5 off-roaders, we won't have a problem measuring wheel travel stroke distance. Insideline measured it.

BTW, come on guys (harper & 1engineer), you're letting a Prius owner tell you how KDSS works! :D

Are you saying a TE with kdss has more travel than an SR5? They're both the same trucks, take the sway bar off the SR5 and it will climb higher up the ramp.
 
It almost seems like REAL off-roaders should avoid TE and buy SR5s and Limited instead.... :D

Sorry, KDSS is good off-road and provides better real-time articulation. IT IS PROVEN WORLDWIDE. RTI shows this. Since we have so many SR5 off-roaders, we won't have a problem measuring wheel travel stroke distance. Insideline measured it.

BTW, come on guys (harper & 1engineer), you're letting a Prius owner tell you how KDSS works! :D

I think the Tenneco website describes the system the best... by the way RFS=KDSS for the point of this paragraph:

"On road, the system provides greater sway stiffness when required for crisp handling response, while at the same time providing improved comfort over bumpy surfaces. Off road, RFS enhances wheel travel and articulation freedom, allowing the vehicle to traverse obstacles with greater ease and comfort, all without requiring power or sensors for operation - a suspension approach and functionality entirely unique in the automotive market."


So in summary - both non-KDSS and KDSS articulate and travel the same, but the KDSS equipped vehicle may have a little more freedom (ie, only battling the force of the spring VS the force of the spring+swaybar in non-KDSS vehicles)
 
Haha we would if you could understand any of it lol. Don't you agree with my last post adressing the fire road scenario? Enjoyed the debate though! What's funny is not very many wanted to get involved in this conversation. All of you guys have a great week and don't do too much damage at the mall on Friday!

Actually, my understanding of it is quite accurate. It is harper and you that need to read up more on KDSS. (I do so much like it when harper look down on Prius owners...only later having to eat his words! :D ) Yes, on fire road, the KDSS 4runner will be better. KDSS improves articulation...it may not extend wheel travel in the absolute sense, but when off-roading, the improved articulation (flexibility of the axles) are noticeable. I saw it with my own eyes with GX470 KDSS vs. FJC when off-roading.

They're both the same trucks, take the sway bar off the SR5 and it will climb higher up the ramp.

And how easy is that? I just don't see many 4runner nor FJC owners jumping out and disco'ing their sway bars. With KDSS, the BEAUTY of it is the improved on-road ride AND the off-road agility...all without laying a finger on the suspension. It is the best of both worlds for a stock off-roader...a perfect compromise if you will.

Sure it will with our long travel suspension system for the FJ Cruiser and 4Runner :) just can't use sway bars to achieve those numbers

I thought that we're talking stock here. Wonderful. Couldn't KDSS owner do the same mod?

What i see here is classic on Jeep forums. You have the camp where anything OEM sucks. Jeeps are built not bought mentality! This camp always look down on the Rubicon owners as being fakes. Look guys, especially SR5 owners, there is NO REASON to hate on the TE/KDSS. It is a wonderful technology that works! The naysayers are showing their jealousy.

Fine, if you bought your 4runner to mod the crap out of it in hope of becoming a primarily weekend off-roader, then great...you don't need KDSS...but, to be honest, you should have bought a Jeep Wrangler as the starting platform!! We all bought 4runners because it is practical, reliable, and safe. Weekend only trucks are none of that...so, you kinda destroy the main purpose of buying a 4runner in the first place.

Now, if you bought the SR5 and now crapping on KDSS, then that is just dumb. Don't blame the KDSS...blame your wallet! Stock for stock, a TE will molest SR5 off-road (and on-road!)...well, given decent set of tires. As for Limited, TE will beat it too...fairly easily. But, i can forgive Limited owners a tiny bit because they do have Multi-mode 4wd, which is handy in bad weather. But, to sh!t on KDSS is just plain ridiculous, esp. when one claims to be the expert!

This thread smells of jealousy IMHO...as a Prius-station-wagon owning outsider. :D

Oh BTW, flame on! I am a big boy.... :)
 
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I thought that we're talking stock here. Wonderful. Couldn't KDSS owner do the same mod?

There is no major modifications required, short of changing out some brake lines the rest is bolt on. Going to any long travel system for the Toyota the use of sway bars is negated since the suspension out travels what the factory sway bar can do. Just a trade off for maximum performance versus working with the parameters of what Toyota design the factory suspension to do.
 
There is no major modifications required, short of changing out some brake lines the rest is bolt on. Going to any long travel system for the Toyota the use of sway bars is negated since the suspension out travels what the factory sway bar can do. Just a trade off for maximum performance versus working with the parameters of what Toyota design the factory suspension to do.

How's your on-road ride and handling? I wonder why Toyota didn't do that mod at the factory given how easy it is and how wonderful the compromise is.
 

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