Post-lift CV angle

[Canazes9]

I'm in va beach. They (Production Off Road) have the tool because they adjusted it initially. What's crazy is I'm showing only 1.5" of exposed thread above the coil collar which corresponds with most other members who I've talked with who have 2.5-3" lift.

How is this even possible????

Next question:
What approach should I be taking with this shop for them to cover this? They told me it was ready Thursday but the alignment was WAYYYYY OFF. Then they told me it was good on Friday when I picked it up. Alignment looked good and well within spec so I went with it (basically telling them I was happy), paid, and went on my way. I never thought to check the CV angle or the drastic angle of the LCA. This is my first experience getting work done on a truck so I just figured it'd just look higher.


For all the guys who said go with High Tech, this must be the biggest "I told ya so" moment ever...

If you are close to High Tech, I would stop right now and cut you losses - bring it to High Tech!

Go in to the shop, eat a little humble pie. "People told me to bring my truck here, I didn't listen, now I have a problem. I want it fixed right, I should have brought it here in the first place. Will you fix it for me?"

If he says yes, pay him his asking rate and thank the good Lord!

As far as what's causing the problem, it's the heavy duty springs with no extra weight on the front. The coil overs are designed to provide 2.5" lift as shipped, there is adjustment up or down to fine tune as needed. If you told Icon you needed them set up for an extra XXXX pounds, they shipped the coil overs for 2.5" lift with the extra XXXX pounds. Without the weight, the front is now higher than it should be. If you added the weight that you were trying to get set up for it should be close - again close! It still may need to be adjusted to be exactly right.

Once High Tech lowers it, they will have to raise it back up after you add the weight because it will sag with the extra weight (and check alignment again).

David

 

[Romanred62]

Soooo I've actually run in to a similar situation. My question is if I drop it back down an inch ish will I need to go back for another $90 alignment?

 

[Okki]

Soooo I've actually run in to a similar situation. My question is if I drop it back down an inch ish will I need to go back for another $90 alignment?

Yes.

Okki

 

[Okki]

As far as what's causing the problem, it's the heavy duty springs with no extra weight on the front. The coil overs are designed to provide 2.5" lift as shipped, there is adjustment up or down to fine tune as needed. If you told Icon you needed them set up for an extra XXXX pounds, they shipped the coil overs for 2.5" lift with the extra XXXX pounds. Without the weight, the front is now higher than it should be. If you added the weight that you were trying to get set up for it should be close - again close! It still may need to be adjusted to be exactly right.

Once High Tech lowers it, they will have to raise it back up after you add the weight because it will sag with the extra weight (and check alignment again).

David

I'm not sure if only the spring rate is different between the 650 and the 700lbs or if the spring height is different (or both). If only the sprint rate is different, then that should not be the issue; his ride will just be more pogo-stick like until he adds the weight.

If the spring is taller, then it will come into play when comparing how much thread he has exposed on the top of the coil. Can someone with the 700lbs springs chime in and post a picture of the measurement from the top of the coil adjustment ring, to the top of the thread?

Okki

 

[Romanred62]

Yes.

Okki

Yay... :frusty:

Thanks though.

 

[Canazes9]

I'm not sure if only the spring rate is different between the 650 and the 700lbs or if the spring height is different (or both). If only the sprint rate is different, then that should not be the issue; his ride will just be more pogo-stick like until he adds the weight.

If the spring is taller, then it will come into play when comparing how much thread he has exposed on the top of the coil. Can someone with the 700lbs springs chime in and post a picture of the measurement from the top of the coil adjustment ring, to the top of the thread?

Okki

No, that's not correct.

Keep all parameters the same and add spring rate and the vehicle will be lifted significantly higher. The height of the vehicle is not based on the height of the spring, but on the height of the compressed spring under the weight of the vehicle. An identical height spring w/ increased coil rate will not compress as much and the suspension will be taller.

When I added the low lift Icon suspension to my wife's 4Runner I had a custom set of coils made for the rear by Deaver. I had the rear springs made 1/2" taller and 15% stiffer than stock. With the Icon front coil overs set to 1.5" of lift I had 1" lift in the back. Raising the front to ~2.125" lift (and thereby transferring a little more weight to the rear) left the rear suspension at about 3/4" lift with a 1/2" taller spring.

Edit - Changing the front to rear weight distribution by changing the front lift in relation to the rear also affects the lift. Adjustments to the coil over do NOT directly correspond to changes in front end lift because you are changing the amount of weight the coil overs are holding as you raise or lower them.


David

 

[Okki]

No, that's not correct.

Keep all parameters the same and add spring rate and the vehicle will be lifted significantly higher. The height of the vehicle is not based on the height of the spring, but on the height of the compressed spring under the weight of the vehicle.
David

That makes sense... thanks for clarifying and correcting me on that.

Okki

 

[Canazes9]

That makes sense...

Okki

Actually I probably didn't say that right - it'ss probably more correct to say "the lift height is based upon the partially compressed spring height of the suspension at rest", but I think you know what I was trying to say...

David

 

[Jono.ful]

Actually I probably didn't say that right - it'ss probably more correct to say "the lift height is based upon the partially compressed spring height of the suspension at rest", but I think you know what I was trying to say...

David

haha I was just going to jump all over you for the initial comment until i saw this one...A stiffer, taller spring will obviously add more height than a softer, shorter spring. My 650lb OME springs were about 2" taller than the stock units, and as such I gained about 3" on 5100's set at 0.

 

[swimmerdude1127]

Tomorrow I plan on calling the shop to see if they'll stand behind this one. I'll give an update tomorrow.

I told them 3" lift to make it level but it's neither 3" nor level. I didn't actually get around to measuring it or even looking underneath until today unfortunately. Either way I'm glad I brought up the issue here and will be looking to get it adjusted ASAP.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Tomorrow I plan on calling the shop to see if they'll stand behind this one. I'll give an update tomorrow.

I told them 3" lift to make it level but it's neither 3" nor level. I didn't actually get around to measuring it or even looking underneath until today unfortunately. Either way I'm glad I brought up the issue here and will be looking to get it adjusted ASAP.

If for whatever reason they don't decide to help you out. I would be happy to correct it for you.

 

[swimmerdude1127]

If for whatever reason they don't decide to help you out. I would be happy to correct it for you.

Awesome. I'll keep you posted. If I make the drive it will prob be on thurs or fri. How bad would it be for the vehicle as-is to drive up to your shop (200 miles)

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Awesome. I'll keep you posted. If I make the drive it will prob be on thurs or fri. How bad would it be for the vehicle as-is to drive up to your shop (200 miles)

Its not ideal, I cant predict a failure or success though. But if i had to guess, id say you should be fine, i've seen worse

 

[swimmerdude1127]

Its not ideal, I cant predict a failure or success though. But if i had to guess, id say you should be fine, i've seen worse

Sounds good. My buddy brought up a point which hasn't come up in this thread at all yet... diff drop?

 

[Jeremy556]

Your CV angles look like mine do when the truck is on a lift - extended coilovers and aftermarket UCAs to provide more droop.

Really, you should wait until you have all of your planned extra weight to put in 700lb coils, otherwise you are going to be topping out and have a jacked alignment. Right now, your spring pre-load adjusters (threaded collars on top of spring) should probably be all of the way out

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Sounds good. My buddy brought up a point which hasn't come up in this thread at all yet... diff drop?

A diff drop won't fix your issue, They move the axles down around 1/2"-1" You need to come down a lot more than that. I haven't seen the need for the diff drop on any 5th gen truck that i've lifted. We took Ducmonsta's diff drop out and it made no real difference

 

[Canazes9]

Tomorrow I plan on calling the shop to see if they'll stand behind this one. I'll give an update tomorrow.

I told them 3" lift to make it level but it's neither 3" nor level. I didn't actually get around to measuring it or even looking underneath until today unfortunately. Either way I'm glad I brought up the issue here and will be looking to get it adjusted ASAP.

“All the time you spend tryin to get back what's been took from you there's more goin out the door. After a while you just try and get a tourniquet on it.”
― Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men

David

 

[swimmerdude1127]

A diff drop won't fix your issue, They move the axles down around 1/2"-1" You need to come down a lot more than that. I haven't seen the need for the diff drop on any 5th gen truck that i've lifted. We took Ducmonsta's diff drop out and it made no real difference

Based on my measurements to make it level they need to come down somewhere between 1" and 1.5" to make it even with rear height.

I also plan on calling Icon just to see if they have anything to add. At this point it should be a straightforward fix--- just crank the coilover threaded ring and realign.

I'm trying to upload a pic showing just how tall the front really is--- that front wheel is technically under compression but it's still tall as hell!

 

[swimmerdude1127]

Based on my measurements to make it level they need to come down somewhere between 1" and 1.5" to make it even with rear height.

I also plan on calling Icon just to see if they have anything to add. At this point it should be a straightforward fix--- just crank the coilover threaded ring and realign.

I'm trying to upload a pic showing just how tall the front really is--- that front wheel is technically under compression but it's still tall as hell!

Here's the pic.

 

[Intruder]

When you call Icon order one of the coilover wrenches either way. They're handy to have in case you add or remove weight and need to adjust your ride height later on. With the wrench, floor jack, and tape measure anyone can adjust their coilovers.