Travel Trailer vs. Rent Trailer

[brockeverly]

So, Brock, I've been checking out a Rock Warrior Tundra at the dealership where I bought my Trail since we started looking into travel trailers. I liked a lot of things about it (backseat has way more room for three kids, I like the bed for bikes, etc.) but I'm also worried about fuel economy. My daily commute is 12 minutes each way on city streets. Unless we're doing something outdoorsy/off roady, we usually travel in our minivan on the weekends, so highway miles are rare. Having said that, I've had the Trail since February 2012 and have just passed 7500 miles two days ago. I am averaging 14.6 miles/gallon over that span.

What's been your experience with the Tundra as far as comparable fuel economy/off road worthiness?

My fuel economy over 11k miles has been 13.75 MPG. This is with quite a few fill ups pulling trailers and wheeling (I generally leave 4x4 engaged to keep things oiled up) which is generally in the single digits. My normal commute nets me around 14.5 MPG. With my lift and 35" mudders I am quite happy with that. If I bump my pressure from 35 to 50 psi I get around 15.5-16 MPG but it rides rough and will probably tear up my tires. Fuel economy on my 4Runner was around 15-16 MPG over the time I owned it IIRC. Same amount of towing but it was quite a bit better unloaded than the Tundra.

Off road the 4Runner was better (more like easier) in some instances, but I have made due just fine. My OME setup and 35s has done great. I have done a lot of the same trails as I did in the 4Runner. Its a much larger vehicle so you will get used to stuff dragging if you wheel it, but its a truck and I treat it as such. Power wise there is no comparison at all so if you are into playing in the mud the Tundra is better. Throws one hell of a rooster tail through a boggin' hole.

 

[brockeverly]

Did you have a Weight Distribution System and an Anti-Sway Bar installed on the 4Runner?

On another note, I don't understand how the expandable nature of a tent trailer gives you more living space. Isn't the expandable part bed space only? I'm also thinking a "tiny" trailer like that is still better than all of us being stuck in a tent during a rainy day.

No WDH on the 4Runner or the Tundra. Sway bar on both.

It makes it a larger living space as the beds do not take up any floor space. For example, in my hybrid travel trailer I have 19ft of floor space but when I fold my beds out I have 27ft of total trailer length. If I had a 19ft travel trailer that was not expandable then the beds would be taking up valuable real estate inside the trailer and I would have only 19ft of livable space vs 27ft.

Here are a couple examples of floor plans. One is a 19ft KZ sportsman, one is my 19H, and one is the tent trailer I posted above. See the difference in available space?

 

[Matt's4Runner]

Yeah, I'm going to look at a hybrid TT later today. I see what you meant by living space now. Any concerns for the little ones in bear country with a hybrid?

I spoke to a guy at Hitch Crafters (they specialize in hitches only, come highly recommended from several independent sources). He's saying that if I get WDS/Sway Bar, keep the length under 20ft and the dry weight under 3000 lbs. I don't have to worry about anything.

On a side note, the salesman who showed me the Rock Warrior keeps texting me to see what I'm willing to pay "today".

 

[brockeverly]

Yeah, I'm going to look at a hybrid TT later today. I see what you meant by living space now. Any concerns for the little ones in bear country with a hybrid?

I spoke to a guy at Hitch Crafters (they specialize in hitches only, come highly recommended from several independent sources). He's saying that if I get WDS/Sway Bar, keep the length under 20ft and the dry weight under 3000 lbs. I don't have to worry about anything.

On a side note, the salesman who showed me the Rock Warrior keeps texting me to see what I'm willing to pay "today".

We camp in bear country all the time without issue. If we leave for an extended period of time with food in the trailer we simply close up the bunks for the time we are gone. They literally take 15 seconds to drop and a minute to put the mattresses in.

He is correct to an extent. Weight wise you are just fine with that. My trailer falls into the specs you are listing (a bit higher dry weight). My concern was the control in high winds and moving it through the mountains. I found the 4.0L quite anemic with the trailer behind it, and high cross winds even with the lifted pop up would move the truck around. You gotta remember you have an 8x10ft wall behind you and a 8x19ft wall to the side. Wind, semis, and mountains can cause some :scared: situations. I never pulled the hybrid up into the mountains with it, was too uncomfortable.

The next issue will be the squat you will have with the heavier tongue weight. Do not confuse the WDH as something that stops squat because that is not its purpose. It is to put weight back onto the front axle only. Some airbags will be in order and will help, but I found that even with the airbags at max I would lose rear height with the 200-300# tongue weight of the pop up. Trailer manufacturers are really bad about putting correct weights, mainly because the weight "dry" is as it rolls off the assembly line. As the dealers add accessories (batteries, lp tanks, etc) that weight climbs quite fast. Add in your camping gear and all bets are off.

 

[eddiebx]

Hey Brock, now that you mention excessive squat with too much tongue weight, is it possible to strategically place your trailer load better to reduce tongue weight?

Not the best example...but looking at that black 4runner you posted above with the car on the trailer...let's just say we rolled the car back one foot on the trailer, wouldn't that reduce the tongue weight a bit and make it "safer" (I know it's probably towing way past 5000 lbs, so nothing's really going to make it safe )

I guess really what I mean to ask is, would a similar idea like this be applicable to loading up your travel trailer or any trailer for that matter...

 

[Titanpat57]

Hey Brock, now that you mention excessive squat with too much tongue weight, is it possible to strategically place your trailer load better to reduce tongue weight?

Not the best example...but looking at that black 4runner you posted above with the car on the trailer...let's just say we rolled the car back one foot on the trailer, wouldn't that reduce the tongue weight a bit and make it "safer" (I know it's probably towing way past 5000 lbs, so nothing's really going to make it safe )

I guess really what I mean to ask is, would a similar idea like this be applicable to loading up your travel trailer or any trailer for that matter...

I know this has been covered here or in the towing section, and without messing up the OP's thread, this is some basic information..and should be a good starting point for towing safely....HowStuffWorks "How Tongue Weight Works"

The bottom line is that car trailer is probably around 2K...and that car is at least 5k, but my guess is closer to 6K..so there's 7K...that mean's tongue weight should come in between 10-15%...so tongue weight as it sits, is between 700 to 1050...way the F over where's it's supposed to be (Toyota says 500lbs. in the manual...but what the hell do they know?)

 

[GeEkBoY]

Here is my trailer:

Its old but in great shape and tows like a dream without sway or WDH. It's probably about 3500 fully loaded, 19". Sleeps 3 adults very comfortably. I am in process of giving it a 4" lift and shocks.

 

[Biggcrisp]

I'm guessing just over 5,000 lbs.

On that car hauler above. My guess, lol, is 3,600 on the car and 1,600 on the trailer. Having towed a few cars I can say in this situation that car is way heavier in the front end and impossible to balance comfortably on that trailer.

Back to the OP:
Modern WDH sytems such as spring bars simply acts as a fulcrum situation that lifts some weight off the vehicle rear end sort of like using a pry bar under the hitch.
There will be some stressing going on but it's spread out evenly over all the parts. No way you could damage that rear crossmember under normal conditions or lower the front end, which is a no no for us.

Everyone is correct about mountain towing being a different animal than flat city towing.

 

[Matt's4Runner]

So, a place that we like to go camping is Big Bear Lake (elevation 6800 ft.) and we're looking forward to visiting the Mammoth area (elevation close to 8000 ft.). We're also planning on the obvious: Yosemite, driving up the coast to B.C., etc.

It sounds to me, from everyone's advice (well, almost everyone ) w e should stick to a tent trailer or look into a new tow vehicle if considering a travel trailer. We saw some nice hybrids yesterday, but I was most impressed by a Lance trailer (fully enclosed, slide out). The dealership is right next to a train track and you could definitely notice the difference between the noise levels hybrid vs. fully enclosed. I imagine that translates to noisy campsite members as well.

 

[Mike G.]

If your shopping campers also take look at the Livin Lite trailers, they are some of the best built trailers on the market and they are light. I am looking at buying the 14 foot model next year.

Camplite Ultra Lightweight All Aluminum Travel Trailers | Livin' Lite RV

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...J0kPvrNtFsn8Co0LL-ymMXA&bvm=bv.47244034,d.dmQ

 

[TheOnlyQP]

If your shopping campers also take look at the Livin Lite trailers, they are some of the best built trailers on the market and they are light. I am looking at buying the 14 foot model next year.

Camplite Ultra Lightweight All Aluminum Travel Trailers | Livin' Lite RV

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...J0kPvrNtFsn8Co0LL-ymMXA&bvm=bv.47244034,d.dmQ

Those look pretty sweet.

 

[Matt's4Runner]

Funny you should mention them. I've been trying to look at one in person, but when I contacted the dealers they list in my zip code only one out of 6 got back to me, and the one who did told me he wasn't a dealer he just rents tent trailers. I emailed the company to get a direct quote but not a peep in a week and a half. With that kind of customer service they can forget about it.

Has anyone seen a "Casita"? The 17 foot Spirit Deluxe with bunk bed option might be something I'd be interested in. Apparently you have to go to the Texas factory to pick one up, but hey, I've never turned down a road trip before!

 

[ShooterF16]

Hi. I've been a forum member for a couple of months and thought I'd share my experiences with towing a 23' travel trailer. Originally I bought the 4runner because I wanted a versatile vehicle with a lot of capability. I thought I might be towing a small utility trailer but didn't dream of towing a 3200 lb (dry) travel trailer. Anyway, my situation changed (wife decided she wanted a trailer) after I got the 4runner.

Since then I've done what I could/should to try and make it as safe as possible: airlift airbags, bilstein 5100 shocks, tranny cooler, wdh, scan gauge ii, and tokonsha p3 brake controller, plus some BFG AT/KOs... We currently live on the east coast but are moving out west in a month. Hopefully we'll be well setup for the trip. So far it's been a good experience on the 3 times we've gone camping.

Our trailer is a Koala 20RB. It was a little heavier than I wanted but I've been super happy with it and it fits our family perfectly. In addition to the wife I have two girls ages 4 and 2.5.

I'll write more and post a few pics when I can.

Cheers, Nate

 

[DannyLlama]

Prescribed, lot of good info on here!

 

[simonj]

Here's mine

2013 Jayco Swift SLX 184bh.

- 20'
- 2700 dry weight
- 3200 max gross
- 280lbs tongue weight
- Kitchenette converts to double bed
- twin bunks for the kids

My '10 Limited tows it quite well. Granted, it is a bit of a slug in the hills, but in no way is the truck overly straining.

Here's the floorplan

 

[Biggcrisp]

Sharing

4,986 lbs. dry

23' of living space

We always travel as dry as possible. Even empty the water heater lol.

 

[crunchcity]

I noticed Toyota lowered the tow rating to 4700 lbs on their website, wow.

I wouldn't tow more than a small utility trailer with this vehicle lol.

 

[tacobill]

We just traded out our 17' Hi-Lo (had it for 10 years) on an Amish built White Water Retro 175. Weighs around 2700 lbs, has a queen bed and the dinette makes into an additional bed. Looked into the Casita and the CampLite as well, but fell in love with the Retro. The CampLite line has rather light tongue weights and is really pricey, (although they should last). Our Retro is all aluminum frame and the cabinets are solid wood complete with crown moulding. Gotta love Amish woodwork. Like the Casita too.

[/URL]~original[/IMG]

 

[Biggcrisp]

Awsome!

We just traded out our 17' Hi-Lo (had it for 10 years) on an Amish built White Water Retro 175. Weighs around 2700 lbs, has a queen bed and the dinette makes into an additional bed. Looked into the Casita and the CampLite as well, but fell in love with the Retro. The CampLite line has rather light tongue weights and is really pricey, (although they should last). Our Retro is all aluminum frame and the cabinets are solid wood complete with crown moulding. Gotta love Amish woodwork. Like the Casita too.

[/URL]~original[/IMG]

Nice choice.

 

[Matt's4Runner]

Looks good, but are you sure that thing is just 17 feet?

I made the mistake of googling travel trailer accidents per brockeverly!