Wiper/washer switch mist mod

[Kmvreter]

So here are some preliminary results.
Baseline times: slow = 8.75; fast = 3.0 seconds.

Temporary connection of 100uF/16V parrellel to existing
slow = 12.75; fast = 3.9
(Not the doubling I was expecting.)

Temporary connection of 200uF / 16V parrellel to existing
slow = 14.9; fast = 6.4

So, should I replace the existing or just add a parrellel (not sure yet how to make this permanent)?

(ps. (+) to Pin 16 gives longer results.)

 

[drmorbius]

Hey guys I've just been really looking hard at that big cap and noticed the letters BP or bipolar. Basically it is 2 polarized electrolytics facing each other in the same package. So it isn't polarized. But is still electrolytic. So Kmvreter you need to try and find a 200uf non polar cap to replace the 100uf one that is in there. Or we can make one by putting 2 400uf caps together +to +.

 

[Even Steven]

So here are some preliminary results.
Baseline times: slow = 8.75; fast = 3.0 seconds.

Temporary connection of 100uF/16V parrellel to existing
slow = 12.75; fast = 3.9
(Not the doubling I was expecting.)

Temporary connection of 200uF / 16V parrellel to existing
slow = 14.9; fast = 6.4

So, should I replace the existing or just add a parrellel (not sure yet how to make this permanent)?

(ps. (+) to Pin 16 gives longer results.)

How are you temporarily connecting them? Any pics?

 

[drmorbius]

If the cap you are testing with is getting warm don't continue as it could pop and shower you with hot acidic electrolyte.

 

[Kmvreter]

How are you temporarily connecting them? Any pics?

Luckily, the existing cap is at the corner of the board. There is a plastic "stand-off" between the two wire leads on the face of the board and the face of the cap. I was able to push the temporary cap's wires between the plastic and the wire lead (blue arrow.) The green arrow shows the end of the temp wire coming out from under the cap on the face of the board.

You can't reinstall the switch package into the holder on the steering column with this extra cap hanging out. But you can still hook up the electrical connector to use it and test it.

 

[Kmvreter]

If the cap you are testing with is getting warm don't continue as it could pop and shower you with hot acidic electrolyte.

Now, there will be none of that!!!

I don't have 2 identical 200 or 220. How about if I put 2 - 100's together like this and try that in the temp position? Why are you doubling up on the value (400) to get a 200 result (did I ask that right?) I know The Source has 440's but they are 50V.
I would like to do this clean so I will need time to find a 200 BP.

 

[drmorbius]

Now, there will be none of that!!!

I don't have 2 identical 200 or 220. How about if I put 2 - 100's together like this and try that in the temp position? Why are you doubling up on the value (400) to get a 200 result (did I ask that right?) I know The Source has 440's but they are 50V.
I would like to do this clean so I will need time to find a 200 BP.

Yes you asked it right. The reason is that if you hook 2 200uf caps together in series you get half the total in capacitance or 100uf. Any how it looks as though the point has been proven. That 14.9 seconds, was it, ought to be long enough for anyone. Good job! Yea team! Or is it too early to celebrate?

 

[Even Steven]

That 14.9 seconds, was it, ought to be long enough for anyone. Good job! Yea team! Or is it too early to celebrate?

I timed three other cars (Acura TL, Mercedes ML, and Jeep Grand Cherokee) and they were all between 20 and 25 seconds on maximum delay.

 

[drmorbius]

I timed three other cars (Acura TL, Mercedes ML, and Jeep Grand Cherokee) and they were all between 20 and 25 seconds on maximum delay.

I'd love to see how they are doing it. At least I believe I proved my original statement. That increasing the size of that capacitor will make the delay longer. By the way I have a local source for those non polar caps I think if anyone's interested.

 

[Even Steven]

I'd love to see how they are doing it.

It's the 4Runner that's not normal....not the other way around. I noticed the ridiculously short delay the very first time I drove my 4Runner in the rain. Every other car I've even owned (or driven) has had a delay at least twice as long as the 4Runner. It's not like it's a hard thing to accomplish.

I wonder why Toyota would do such a thing? Why not just leave it the way it has been for years? I'd bet the 3rd gen 4Runner has a longer delay.

 

[drmorbius]

It's the 4Runner that's not normal....not the other way around. I noticed the ridiculously short delay the very first time I drove my 4Runner in the rain. Every other car I've even owned (or driven) has had a delay at least twice as long as the 4Runner. It's not like it's a hard thing to accomplish.

I wonder why Toyota would do such a thing? Why not just leave it the way it has been for years? I'd bet the 3rd gen 4Runner has a longer delay.

It's definitely a mystery, especially since the Highlander actually has what we would like to have.

 

[Kmvreter]

I'd love to see how they are doing it. At least I believe I proved my original statement. That increasing the size of that capacitor will make the delay longer. By the way I have a local source for those non polar caps I think if anyone's interested.

We have a victory, but I think it's too early to celebrate.
I'm going to keep playing with what The Source can get me and check some electronics outfits during the week. I would definitely be interested if you have a local supplier. Even just get me the brand and part # and I'll track it down here.

Need to finish this and get to watching a game! Go Packers... Oops...
(Just had to rub it in!)

 

[drmorbius]

We have a victory, but I think it's too early to celebrate.
I'm going to keep playing with what The Source can get me and check some electronics outfits during the week. I would definitely be interested if you have a local supplier. Even just get me the brand and part # and I'll track it down here.

Need to finish this and get to watching a game! Go Packers... Oops...
(Just had to rub it in!)

This place has lots of good stuff http://www.digikey.com/
Go catalog, capacitors, page 1481. 16V/470uf Digi Key #P1170ND, Panasonic # ECE A1CN471U
Have used this company alot for work and they are fast and have good stuff. Enjoy!

 

[Kmvreter]

Experimented with the temp 2x100 bipolar cap I rigged up in the earlier pic. Can you confirm the theory that I was hoping to see a 50% improvement in time? The 100's act against each other resulting in 50uF plus the existing 100uF = 150?
The actual result was 123% (10.8 vs 8.75) on the slow setting; 117% (3.52 vs 3.0) on the fast setting. What gives?

I then rigged up 2 more 100's (25V) in series with the original temp 100. So now I had 100 (-) to (+)100 times 2 joined (+) to (+). I was hoping to get another 100 bipolar out of this to give me a total of 200 on board (100 permanent; 100 temporary.) In fact, adding the other 100's did squat, same times as before. Again, what gives?

This place has lots of good stuff http://www.digikey.com/
Go catalog, capacitors, page 1481.
Have used this company alot for work and they are fast and have good stuff. Enjoy!

Thanks for the link. I'm inclined to try several different parts. A 220, 330 and even a 470uF. Now that I have a Panasonic part # I'm going to try and find it locally. They are cheap but the shipping and handling is prohibitive to The North.

On with the game!

 

[Even Steven]

So what's the end result? Are you still experimenting, or are you finished?

Does it make sense to rig up a capacitor the way you did earlier to get double the delay without de-soldering the original capacitor from the circuit board? Is there any way to permanently mount it without messing with the soldering pen?

 

[drmorbius]

So what's the end result? Are you still experimenting, or are you finished?

Does it make sense to rig up a capacitor the way you did earlier to get double the delay without de-soldering the original capacitor from the circuit board? Is there any way to permanently mount it without messing with the soldering pen?

We're still working it. Sent some BP caps to Kmvreter, still in transit , more later.

 

[Kmvreter]

Yes, thanks to the good dr being able to locate some caps locally, the experiment is still alive.

Does it make sense to rig up a capacitor the way you did earlier to get double the delay without de-soldering the original capacitor from the circuit board? Is there any way to permanently mount it without messing with the soldering pen? [/QUOTE]

Doubling the 100uF rating didn't double the delay time, thats why we are playing with other ratings. The temp setup is just that because you can't get the switch back into the steering column holder with the caps hanging out. The final solution will need to be soldered in because, even if it fits, you don't want to risk a connection vibrating loose and shorting something else on the circuit board.

 

[Kmvreter]

One step closer...
I've got the caps, now I need to find the time.

 

[Even Steven]

One step closer...
I've got the caps, now I need to find the time.

Good...keep us updated. I'm definitely interested in your results!

 

[Kmvreter]

And the stop watch says...

Fast Slow
Baseline (100uF) 8.75 3.0 sec/swipe
Baseline + 330 18.1 5.2
baseline + 470 20.2 5.8

I took these times with the new caps temporarily installed in parrellel with the existing cap. The actual values will be lower when the existing cap is removed. I was disappointed with the 470uF time. I thought the time differential would be much more because the cap size is so much bigger.

There is another factor in play; the cap size. The pic below shows how i hooked up the temp 470 (on lower left.) Then the loose 470 (on the right) shows how it barely fits in height compared to the switch package. The 470 would also have to be placed on an angle in the final position in order to fit into the corner of the switch holder. I didn't include the 330 in the pic but it is a midsize.

Bottom line...
I'm going to solder in the 470 and see what happens.