No KDSS for FJ Cruiser ?

[phillyd2]

look down on Prius owners...

To be fair, that's sort of a a not brainer So Gay

 

[Thai]

To be fair, that's sort of a a not brainer So Gay

Some of us have real balls that care about other more important things than what little boys say about our rides. Grow a pair and you will see what I mean.

 

[1engineer]

Actually, my understanding of it is quite accurate. It is harper and you that need to read up more on KDSS. (I do so much like it when harper look down on Prius owners...only later having to eat his words! ) Yes, on fire road, the KDSS 4runner will be better. KDSS improves articulation...it may not extend wheel travel in the absolute sense, but when off-roading, the improved articulation (flexibility of the axles) are noticeable. I saw it with my own eyes with GX470 KDSS vs. FJC when off-roading.



And how easy is that? I just don't see many 4runner nor FJC owners jumping out and disco'ing their sway bars. With KDSS, the BEAUTY of it is the improved on-road ride AND the off-road agility...all without laying a finger on the suspension. It is the best of both worlds for a stock off-roader...a perfect compromise if you will.



I thought that we're talking stock here. Wonderful. Couldn't KDSS owner do the same mod?

What i see here is classic on Jeep forums. You have the camp where anything OEM sucks. Jeeps are built not bought mentality! This camp always look down on the Rubicon owners as being fakes. Look guys, especially SR5 owners, there is NO REASON to hate on the TE/KDSS. It is a wonderful technology that works! The naysayers are showing their jealousy.

Fine, if you bought your 4runner to mod the crap out of it in hope of becoming a primarily weekend off-roader, then great...you don't need KDSS...but, to be honest, you should have bought a Jeep Wrangler as the starting platform!! We all bought 4runners because it is practical, reliable, and safe. Weekend only trucks are none of that...so, you kinda destroy the main purpose of buying a 4runner in the first place.

Now, if you bought the SR5 and now crapping on KDSS, then that is just dumb. Don't blame the KDSS...blame your wallet! Stock for stock, a TE will molest SR5 off-road (and on-road!)...well, given decent set of tires. As for Limited, TE will beat it too...fairly easily. But, i can forgive Limited owners a tiny bit because they do have Multi-mode 4wd, which is handy in bad weather. But, to sh!t on KDSS is just plain ridiculous, esp. when one claims to be the expert!

This thread smells of jealousy IMHO...as a Prius-station-wagon owning outsider.

Oh BTW, flame on! I am a big boy....

No jealousy here. My previous posts even say KDSS is good. The original assertion is/was KDSS increases articulation. My claim is no, bump stops ultimately control max articulation and they are located in the same place on all models of 5th gen 4Runners. I concur (and always have) that the less spring force you have, either by coils alone or adding torsion from sway bars to coils, the "easier" it will be for the suspension to articulate under certain conditions such as a static ramp. Add enough velocity to the equation in the real world and spring forces are quickly overcome by the simple F=MA equation and physical limits quickly come into play - and the limits, again, are the same for all models. KDSS is a great design and has several advantages on road and off. It cannot however change geometry. Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy the time with family!

 

[phillyd2]

Some of us have real balls that care about other more important things than what little boys say about our rides.

Which is obvious by the manly way you just ignored the comment and moved on with you big balls life. A lesser man than you would have commented right a way with a High School insult. We have much to lean from you, Mr. Big Balls! :crybaby:

 

[Koz]

How about this for KDSS articulation, on a STOCK vehicle with a 112.2" wheelbase;

24.81" of travel and a 647 RTI score!

Notice the limiting factor (mud flap) on the other side!

 

[Thai]

No jealousy here. My previous posts even say KDSS is good. The original assertion is/was KDSS increases articulation. My claim is no, bump stops ultimately control max articulation and they are located in the same place on all models of 5th gen 4Runners. I concur (and always have) that the less spring force you have, either by coils alone or adding torsion from sway bars to coils, the "easier" it will be for the suspension to articulate under certain conditions such as a static ramp. Add enough velocity to the equation in the real world and spring forces are quickly overcome by the simple F=MA equation and physical limits quickly come into play - and the limits, again, are the same for all models. KDSS is a great design and has several advantages on road and off. It cannot however change geometry. Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy the time with family!

How much velocity when you're crawling at under 5 mph? Do you max out suspension speeding on fire roads?

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

 

[Thai]

Which is obvious by the manly way you just ignored the comment and moved on with you big balls life. A lesser man than you would have commented right a way with a High School insult. We have much to lean from you, Mr. Big Balls! :crybaby:

Hmmm, look in the mirror? :flipoff: I love your contribution to this thread.... :toilet3:

 

[phillyd2]

Hmmm, look in the mirror? :flipoff: I love your contribution to this thread.... :toilet3:

Oh please stop....all this you being a bigger man walking away not caring about stupid comments is making us girls look bad. Oh, wait......:infidel:

 

[Intruder]

No jealousy here. My previous posts even say KDSS is good. The original assertion is/was KDSS increases articulation. My claim is no, bump stops ultimately control max articulation and they are located in the same place on all models of 5th gen 4Runners. I concur (and always have) that the less spring force you have, either by coils alone or adding torsion from sway bars to coils, the "easier" it will be for the suspension to articulate under certain conditions such as a static ramp. Add enough velocity to the equation in the real world and spring forces are quickly overcome by the simple F=MA equation and physical limits quickly come into play - and the limits, again, are the same for all models. KDSS is a great design and has several advantages on road and off. It cannot however change geometry. Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy the time with family!

Can you save this post for the next time the topic comes up? Best explanation for the layman I've seen yet I think.

 

[Koz]

No jealousy here. My previous posts even say KDSS is good. The original assertion is/was KDSS increases articulation. My claim is no, bump stops ultimately control max articulation and they are located in the same place on all models of 5th gen 4Runners. I concur (and always have) that the less spring force you have, either by coils alone or adding torsion from sway bars to coils, the "easier" it will be for the suspension to articulate under certain conditions such as a static ramp. Add enough velocity to the equation in the real world and spring forces are quickly overcome by the simple F=MA equation and physical limits quickly come into play - and the limits, again, are the same for all models. KDSS is a great design and has several advantages on road and off. It cannot however change geometry. Happy Thanksgiving and enjoy the time with family!

How would you explain the same vehicle (GX470) with KDSS scoring a 519 RTI and without KDSS scoring a 428 RTI?

Koz

 

[JB.]

For those of us trying to follow along, let me pose a simple question.

Assuming KDSS effectively disconnects the sway bar, isn't droop (like in the pic) greater than it would be in SR5 with sway bar?

 

[MT4X4]

How would you explain the same vehicle (GX470) with KDSS scoring a 519 RTI and without KDSS scoring a 428 RTI?

Koz

RTI ramps only give you a sample of what a vehicle can do off road. It doesn't replicate the forces of different terrains mixed in with body roll, suspension flex, etc. The reasoning behind the different scores is due to the KDSS allowing the sway bar to go loose which reduces the force on the sway bar thus increasing the RTI score. RTI ramps are great and all but the real world will show that a SR5, TE or Limited will have the same flex with or without KDSS.

 

[Intruder]

Assuming KDSS effectively disconnects the sway bar, isn't droop (like in the pic) greater than it would be in SR5 with sway bar?

My droop may be somewhat different than a stock SR5, TE, or LTD because I'm running LR UCAs. The UCA is the limiting factor for droop (like Harper previously said). If you're looking at stock vs. stock I think the only thing that would make a difference in droop is if the weight of the wheel+tire on an SR5 or LTD wasn't enough to overcome the tension of the sway bar. 1Engineer or Harper can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

 

[1engineer]

For those of us trying to follow along, let me pose a simple question.

Assuming KDSS effectively disconnects the sway bar, isn't droop (like in the pic) greater than it would be in SR5 with sway bar?

See intruders post below.

RTI ramps only give you a sample of what a vehicle can do off road. It doesn't replicate the forces of different terrains mixed in with body roll, suspension flex, etc. The reasoning behind the different scores is due to the KDSS allowing the sway bar to go loose which reduces the force on the sway bar thus increasing the RTI score. RTI ramps are great and all but the real world will show that a SR5, TE or Limited will have the same flex with or without KDSS.

This is right in line with what I said in a previous post. Remember F=MA and that if the "A" gets bigger then the "F" has to get bigger as well, at least until it hits the stops. Then things get a big "B", as in bent lol.

My droop may be somewhat different than a stock SR5, TE, or LTD because I'm running LR UCAs. The UCA is the limiting factor for droop (like Harper previously said). If you're looking at stock vs. stock I think the only thing that would make a difference in droop is if the weight of the wheel+tire on an SR5 or LTD wasn't enough to overcome the tension of the sway bar. 1Engineer or Harper can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

You are right on. How many times did you hit your stops going through that wash?

 

[Intruder]

How many times did you hit your stops going through that wash?

Not once that I recall actually feeling, but I was creeping pretty slowly so I wouldn't flop it. One foot on the gas and one on the brake the whole time. Coincidentally my friend's dad put his JK on its side in that exact spot a few months ago. Too fast and put his passenger side tires too high up the wall.

I'm not really sure why everyone is in such a twist over KDSS. I've done a fair bit of off roading in my truck and granted I'm not driving the Rubicon or Dusy Ershim, but sway bars haven't been that big a differentiator in what we've been able to tackle. More often it's tires, armour, clearance, lockers, and, most important of all, driver ability.

 

[Koz]

RTI ramps only give you a sample of what a vehicle can do off road. It doesn't replicate the forces of different terrains mixed in with body roll, suspension flex, etc. The reasoning behind the different scores is due to the KDSS allowing the sway bar to go loose which reduces the force on the sway bar thus increasing the RTI score. RTI ramps are great and all but the real world will show that a SR5, TE or Limited will have the same flex with or without KDSS.

Sorry, an RTI score measures the amount of articulation a vehicle has in a controlled test. There is a simple reason why the KDSS equipped vehicle has more articulation, the sway bar is not being the limiting factor. This has NOTHING to do with replicating forces or different terrains. Both vehicles are exactly the same except for the sway bars and each vehicle is measured the EXACT same way.

OK anyone else with a different tap dance?

Koz

 

[Koz]

I'm not really sure why everyone is in such a twist over KDSS. I've done a fair bit of off roading in my truck and granted I'm not driving the Rubicon or Dusy Ershim, but sway bars haven't been that big a differentiator in what we've been able to tackle. More often it's tires, armour, clearance, lockers, and, most important of all, driver ability.

You are exactly right. I think the issue is (for me included) is that some of the members that do not have KDSS are trying to brush it off as not really worth having and a 4Runner with a regular sway bar has the same articulation. The real benefit of this system is that it not only provides more articulation off-road, it also provides a huge difference in on-road stability and handling.

Koz

 

[mgrande]

Actually, my understanding of it is quite accurate. It is harper and you that need to read up more on KDSS. (I do so much like it when harper look down on Prius owners...only later having to eat his words! ) Yes, on fire road, the KDSS 4runner will be better. KDSS improves articulation...it may not extend wheel travel in the absolute sense, but when off-roading, the improved articulation (flexibility of the axles) are noticeable. I saw it with my own eyes with GX470 KDSS vs. FJC when off-roading.



And how easy is that? I just don't see many 4runner nor FJC owners jumping out and disco'ing their sway bars. With KDSS, the BEAUTY of it is the improved on-road ride AND the off-road agility...all without laying a finger on the suspension. It is the best of both worlds for a stock off-roader...a perfect compromise if you will.



I thought that we're talking stock here. Wonderful. Couldn't KDSS owner do the same mod?

What i see here is classic on Jeep forums. You have the camp where anything OEM sucks. Jeeps are built not bought mentality! This camp always look down on the Rubicon owners as being fakes. Look guys, especially SR5 owners, there is NO REASON to hate on the TE/KDSS. It is a wonderful technology that works! The naysayers are showing their jealousy.

Fine, if you bought your 4runner to mod the crap out of it in hope of becoming a primarily weekend off-roader, then great...you don't need KDSS...but, to be honest, you should have bought a Jeep Wrangler as the starting platform!! We all bought 4runners because it is practical, reliable, and safe. Weekend only trucks are none of that...so, you kinda destroy the main purpose of buying a 4runner in the first place.

Now, if you bought the SR5 and now crapping on KDSS, then that is just dumb. Don't blame the KDSS...blame your wallet! Stock for stock, a TE will molest SR5 off-road (and on-road!)...well, given decent set of tires. As for Limited, TE will beat it too...fairly easily. But, i can forgive Limited owners a tiny bit because they do have Multi-mode 4wd, which is handy in bad weather. But, to sh!t on KDSS is just plain ridiculous, esp. when one claims to be the expert!

This thread smells of jealousy IMHO...as a Prius-station-wagon owning outsider.

Oh BTW, flame on! I am a big boy....

I never said disconnect the sway bar. I said take it off, as in no longer attached to the vehicle.

 

[mgrande]

How would you explain the same vehicle (GX470) with KDSS scoring a 519 RTI and without KDSS scoring a 428 RTI?

Koz

Of course out of two stock trucks the KDSS will have more articulation. But when you completely remove the sway bar from the non KDSS vehicle, it will flex more. KDSS is good, all I'm saying is that if you want the most of your coilovers, remove the sway bar.This is true for fast and slow stuff.

 

[Thai]

Ok, removing sways altogether...hmmm, ok...hmmm....