POR-15 or just Fluid Film

[Sarki]

Getting ready for the salty roads of the northeast & wanted the opinions of those in similar climates regarding rust control/prevention.
Got a bunch of surface rust that I would like to address and prevent from compromising the integrity of the frame.
Looks worse than it is.
There are no areas where it has rusted through or resulted in softened metal. Surface rust with a few spots where it has resulted in flaking metal but no perforations anywhere, other than a spot on the end of the passenger side rocker panel but that’s for another thread.
My concern is the frame & stopping it from progressing further.
Been using angle grinder with wire wheel to remove flaking rust & surface rust.
Intended to apply POR-15 and then Fluid Film to areas of frame that are accessible and have surface rust as well as to rear diff.
Now thinking skip the POR-15 and just go with Fluid Film and apply yearly to the entire frame and underbody.
Is the POR-15 necessary?
Based on photos, thoughts on just apply Fluid Film at this point.
Thanks for all opinions.

 

[Brian.]

POR15 necessary? Not strictly speaking, but means less you have to FF and probably an overall longer service life of those metal surfaces. There's going to be a point where the POR15 starts having payoff, maybe it's 5 years down the line, maybe longer.... you just have to decide if its worth it to you.

If it's just a matter of not wanting to spend the time right now, do some (whatever is Really bad) and just film the rest. Then next year do a little more, and same the year after that.... or if you think it's just a short-term truck and you'll move on in 3 years, do whatever's the least your comfortable with.

 

[denlion81]

Is the POR-15 necessary?

In my personal opinion - yes, yes and YES. Previous owner of my 1996 LTD rustproofed her couple times, but last half year stored the car on open soil. So, the whole underneath looked exactly like yours. I did small research, talked to couple of guys working in rustproofing business and come up with following:

1: Power wash it
2: Grind as much as you can (you have done good job).
3: Apply acid solution to convert your rust to dormant form. I used Must for Rust gel.
4: Power wash it again. Dry it very good.
5: POR-15

And don't forget to use as much Krown as you only can. Every year. And add each time you see some spots are drying off. Especially spray it inside the frame.

That is the only way to keep it running long time without frame holes. Especially in out "snow belt" regions...

 

[nobb]

You've already gone through the effort of grinding off the rust, which is the hardest part. Definitely POR15 it...the stuff works really well and is maybe only another 2-3 hours of work. Once you fluid film it, the oil is sticky and hard to remove 100% if you ever want to POR15 it later.

 

[Kanoe]

Both is best. You've done the hard part. Por-15 it to make it all pretty. Once it is all done and dry then start doing your yearly fluid film treatments. That's the most long lasting approach.

 

[Crowcifier6]

I was in the same boat a few weeks ago....skip the paint and just Fluid Film? Or paint an then coat?

I figured that while I had it semi cleaned of rust and grease, POR-15 would be an added barrier against the rust.

If time or money is short, fluid film/motor oil/ temporarily remedy the important stuff until you can properly clean degrease and re coat the metal. POR will out last FF....only one needs re applying if done correctly. JMO


Denlion81 has it nailed, except step 6 should be FF the f*ck out of it

 

[Sarki]

Thanks for the responses.
Have spent many hours with the angle grinder and various wire wheels trying to remove as much of the flaking and surface rust as realistically possible without dropping the rear diff, exhaust, etc, etc.
I know if I start dropping the diff and other components i’ll open a can of worms that will lead to way more than i’m looking to take on.
A bit short on time (and getting a bit lazy) so began to think maybe just Fluid Film but as NOBB brought up, once Fluid Film is applied it’s tough to clean and prep for POR-15.....excellent point!
Just want to be done with this so I can get started on valve cover & LBJ replacement......more fun!

 

[brillo_76]

I have done both on different Rigs.
KB Seal is slightly cheaper then POR 15. Both of those products are very good. Make sure you don't get that crap on your skin as you have to wear it off. Also wear a respirator because those are extremely nasty. I wear throw away outfits when I use those products to keep from wearing the product. Then fluid Film



On another rig, I used strictly rust-oleum and Fluid Film.

I do know that only paint is worthless. Especially on rusted steel.

Great work Sarki. Looks really decent cleaning job..

 

[Ron Burgandy]

i’d use WD-40 if you’ve grinded the rust off already. POR-15 bonds to the rust (Paint Over Rust), and if you’ve grinded the rust off already... epoxy might be better for bare metal? also, i’ve has good luck with chassis saver. although i left my frame rusty.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Kanoe]

POR-15 bonds to the rust (Paint Over Rust), and if you’ve grinded the rust off already... epoxy might be better for bare metal?

Por-15 will stick on prepped rust but it will also stick well to cleaned metal, new metal, skin and clothes. It's finicky, expensive, hard to find in stores but it is a nice product.

 

[dogtail]

I say WD-40 also. Yearly application, but really hit everything. Super easy and cheap, takes 30 minutes max per application. 370K miles on my clean rust free chassis in New England. Here's my write up link, follow it exactly and you'll get my results. SEASONAL RUST PROOFING using WD-40 only

 

[brillo_76]

For those who use WD-40, have you experimented with other things? I used tranny fluid before, I seen some use Chainsaw bar oil. I know some folks swear by mineral oil. Out of all the things I tried, fluid film has been the best. its non toxic and the smell isn't horrible. Not super flammable and burns really slow.

How long will your WD-40 treatment last? Just curious as it does seem like another half decent alternative.


Also for those using POR-15 and KB Seal. You can use that on new steel or really clean steel. The trick with all paints is that is needs scratches to hold onto. This is why sanding is so important when painting cars etc. To make it stick to new shiny steel. You need to roughen the steel surface.. This is why POR 15 has you do that metal prep and an acid bath. You have to descale it all first, then do what mfg of your product suggest.

 

[j4run]

As said before, you've done most of the hard work. Would be a real shame to not finish it off. I did this to the 4R we got from the rust belt, although ours was less rusted than yours. I considered POR 15 and many other products, and in the end used the KBS 3-stage kit. I'm happy with my choice, but suspect any of the best products will work well if the prep is done well and they're applied properly. My process was:

- remove bumpers, spare tire, etc.
- pressure wash _extensively_. It was (especially) a royal PITA to get crud out of the frame. There was all sorts of sand, mud, and small gravel. This was a very messy process.

- remove as much rust as possible. Most of the flat surfaces of my frame were OK, but _lots_ of the frame welds were rusted, under the paint. When I hit the welds with a wire wheel the paint came off and exposed the rust underneath. I bought a cheap pneumatic scaler from Harbor Freight (less than $30). This got into places impossible to reach with wire wheel, grinder, etc. It worked really well and I highly recommended it.

- read KBS instructions (maybe twice- it matters) (degrease, convert rust, paint).
- paint. Like above, this is SERIOUS paint. If you get it on the body, on your body, on the driveway, etc., it's there for good. The fumes are toxic. I wore a hat, disposable clothes, gloves, etc. Note timing for recoating paing. It took me hours to paint; I did this is two sessions and I'd recommend that. I found it very tiring and tedious to be under the car, trying to get everything. If you're really getting into all the nooks and crannies, it takes time. I also masked some bolts (threads) that will likely need to be removed. Again, it's serious paint!


I followed up with Fluid Film, using the FF kit w/ sprayer and the extension wtih 360 deg nozzle to get inside all the frame and bumper members. This worked really well.

I think it's been three years now, and I'm very pleased with the results. My advice: don't skip on purchasing what you need. It might seem expensive at the time, but this is a huge amount of work to do well, and something I sure don't ever want to do again. And if it's done right, it'll make your 4R last a lot longer, or be worth more for resale. I think a very good investment.



-

 

[j4run]

Sarki --

Just looking at the pics. In the 6th picture down you can see a body mount in the top right corner. It looks like the rubber bushing has failed, and the top of the bushing has fallen apart - note the space of maybe 1/2 or 3/4 inch.

 

[dogtail]

For those who use WD-40, have you experimented with other things? I used tranny fluid before, I seen some use Chainsaw bar oil. I know some folks swear by mineral oil. Out of all the things I tried, fluid film has been the best. its non toxic and the smell isn't horrible. Not super flammable and burns really slow.

How long will your WD-40 treatment last? Just curious as it does seem like another half decent alternative.


Also for those using POR-15 and KB Seal. You can use that on new steel or really clean steel. The trick with all paints is that is needs scratches to hold onto. This is why sanding is so important when painting cars etc. To make it stick to new shiny steel. You need to roughen the steel surface.. This is why POR 15 has you do that metal prep and an acid bath. You have to descale it all first, then do what mfg of your product suggest.

WD-40 lasts and lasts, I still have last Februarys coating fully intact (my undercarriage never ever gets washed). Although I apply every snow season for 100% effectiveness. All oil type coatings use work on same principal. Proven effective for many decades by the old timers. Even stuff like Canola oil will work. With WD-40 you can also coat over rust and it will infuse in the scale and turn black and form a barrier for any further progression. I like WD-40 cause it is very thin and you can spray it on everything.
As with anything, you can half ass or not be full effective if you don't use common sense. Any coating **no matter what it is** will be broken down by repeated salting over time.....that is why seasonal or repeated applications are important.
The best method for rust prevention is the one that works for you, there is not only one formula. I spend less than 1 hour per year on rust prevention for 100% effectiveness on undercarriage and body. Here's todays closeup of the hot spot rear LCA mount. Anybody that sticks their head under my 20 yr old 370K+ mile rig is amazed at the condition for my salty region. This 4runner has been in salt country its whole life, and I drive salty roads with piece of mind I'm protected. I don't see that many 3rd gens on the road in my area anymore thanks to salt, but I'm still here solid and black.
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3174013-post1.html

 

[brillo_76]

Great to know, that Water_Displacement formula 40, that was designed to keep nuclear and ballistic misses from rusting.. Does Great on the Chassis.. I thought it would be hard on the rubber components. Glad to know it is not..

 

[brillo_76]

Sarki --

Just looking at the pics. In the 6th picture down you can see a body mount in the top right corner. It looks like the rubber bushing has failed, and the top of the bushing has fallen apart - note the space of maybe 1/2 or 3/4 inch.

All 5 of my Rigs center body mounts [on both sides] look exactly like that. At first I thought they failed. But not all 10. Even my one with the perfect frame has that same spacing. So unless i had 10 body mounts fail the exact same way, That is how they are supposed to be. Which doesn't make any sense at all.


Regarding the OEM body mounts . . .

It was by design though to leave that spacing there was on purpose...;-)

 

[Last Man Standing]

WD-40 lasts and lasts, I still have last Februarys coating fully intact (my undercarriage never ever gets washed). Although I apply every snow season for 100% effectiveness. All oil type coatings use work on same principal. Proven effective for many decades by the old timers. Even stuff like Canola oil will work. With WD-40 you can also coat over rust and it will infuse in the scale and turn black and form a barrier for any further progression. I like WD-40 cause it is very thin and you can spray it on everything.
As with anything, you can half ass or not be full effective if you don't use common sense. Any coating **no matter what it is** will be broken down by repeated salting over time.....that is why seasonal or repeated applications are important.
The best method for rust prevention is the one that works for you, there is not only one formula. I spend less than 1 hour per year on rust prevention for 100% effectiveness on undercarriage and body. Here's todays closeup of the hot spot rear LCA mount. Anybody that sticks their head under my 20 yr old 370K+ mile rig is amazed at the condition for my salty region. This 4runner has been in salt country its whole life, and I drive salty roads with piece of mind I'm protected. I don't see that many 3rd gens on the road in my area anymore thanks to salt, but I'm still here solid and black.
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3174013-post1.html

Dogtail,

Thanks for the info and link to original post!
Have you been doing this treatment since new purchase or did you buy it used, and how old was it when purchased? Thanks

LMS

 

[dogtail]

Dogtail,

Thanks for the info and link to original post!
Have you been doing this treatment since new purchase or did you buy it used, and how old was it when purchased? Thanks

LMS

Bought it with 139K miles, has 373K miles now. Been treating it since I picked it up. Its my DD.

 

[phattyduck]

All 5 of my Rigs center body mounts [on both sides] look exactly like that. At first I thought they failed. But not all 10. Even my one with the perfect frame has that same spacing. So unless i had 10 body mounts fail the exact same way, That is how they are supposed to be. Which doesn't make any sense at all.


Regarding the OEM body mounts . . .

It was by design though to leave that spacing there was on purpose...;-)

I was about to post this. Yes, that body mount is 100% fine. Even the aftermarket poly mounts from Energy Suspension have that gap.

-Charlie